When should heating be on?

eleventh · 03-10-2020 11:35am #1

If you're a tenant and central heating is included in your rent, what hours of the day is it on for?

With many WFH this year or being asked to stay at home, are landlords being encouraged to provide all-day heating?

I think the government should be supporting them to do that. In my place, heating is off during the day. Other winters if I'm home, if it's a really cold day, I'd escape to somewhere that's warm for a few hours. That option isn't there this year.

Gumbo · 03-10-2020 11:36am

When the space is cold.
There’s no universal time when the beating should be on.

My B1 rated house might need it on for an hour, but the neighbors D3 for 2 hours etc

If it’s cost your worried about then ;

Are you cold?
If yes, have you got socks and slipper/shoes on?
Have you got a jumper on?

The government do support this by way of a working from home tax incentive of circa €3.20 per day.

eleventh · 03-10-2020 1:26pm

There should be something fairly specific, in the same way it's specified that fridge, cooker, hot water etc has to be provided, some guideline around heating should be given also.

If the BER rating is low, what does this mean to the tenant?

As to the tenant paying for additional heating, in my own case, aside from the cost, there wouldn't be enough sockets. The bathroom has no socket.
If I wanted heating during the day to match the central heating in the living area (which is good when it's on) I'd need probably 3 oil heaters plugged in there. I already have a heater, which is ok most of the time, but to heat the place fully with its high ceilings on a wintry day I'd have to spend 100s on heaters, getting sockets in the walls, plus electricity bills would be sky high.

I'm saying it makes more sense in this time that central heating is in the day time as well, and not just a couple of hours morning/evening.

As mentioned, in normal times, it's not an issue when places are open during the day, or travel isn't restricted, so you have options.

stevek93 · 03-10-2020 1:30pm

Hi OP, what temperature are your rooms?

Graces7 · 03-10-2020 3:43pm

Bathrooms do not have sockets for safety reasons I think?

I am of a different generation and we only heated the room we were using. You have heating at some times? ie morning and evening? But then we did not have central heating.

So one room is used in the day? And yes, dress more warmly.

eleventh · 03-10-2020 4:31pm

stevek93 wrote: »

Hi OP, what temperature are your rooms?

Hi, I haven't recorded the temperature but that's an idea, to get a thermometer.
They have standards for other things in a tenancy, there should be one for room temperature as well I think.

bobbyy gee · 03-10-2020 4:35pm

Tenant should pay for heating if landlord paid it would be left on 24 hours

eleventh · 03-10-2020 4:42pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Bathrooms do not have sockets for safety reasons I think?

That's true. Bathroom was a bad example. The point I was trying to make was lack of sockets in the apartment if I wanted to add heaters.

You have heating at some times? ie morning and evening? But then we did not have central heating.

Buildings without central heating had open fires. An open fire would be great for this situation, but not many have them now.

I'm talking about flat/apartment living where a landlord controls the heating of the building, sets when it comes on in the morning, for how long etc.

Graces7 · 03-10-2020 4:58pm

eleventh wrote: »

That's true. Bathroom was a bad example. The point I was trying to make was lack of sockets in the apartment if I wanted to add heaters.
Buildings without central heating had open fires. An open fire would be great for this situation, but not many have them now.

I'm talking about flat/apartment living where a landlord controls the heating of the building, sets when it comes on in the morning, for how long etc.

There are surely some sockets? Here I have only 4 for the entire place which is unusual.

And if you want 24./7 heating the rent will go up?

I have rented decades and never was heating included. One even got a bottled gas heater but I had to buy the gas.

There was a thread during the 2010 winter when folk were desperate to try to keep warm. Bleach bottles as hot water bottles, living and sleeping in one room.

You need to contact your landlord?

Foweva Awone · 03-10-2020 5:09pm

Most people working from home are saving money on food and transport. I think there's a WFH tax relief available too. So paying a little more for heating seems a fair trade-off, especially considering the non-financial benefits of working from home also.

Mrs OBumble · 03-10-2020 5:13pm

eleventh wrote: »

I'm talking about flat/apartment living where a landlord controls the heating of the building, sets when it comes on in the morning, for how long etc.

Such arrangements are no longer legal. Tenants are required to have control of their own heating.

Trampas · 03-10-2020 5:16pm

Wfh relief is paid by your employer. So it’s up to them to pay it or not

stevek93 · 03-10-2020 5:19pm

eleventh wrote: »

Hi, I haven't recorded the temperature but that's an idea, to get a thermometer.
They have standards for other things in a tenancy, there should be one for room temperature as well I think.

I have smart TRVs each room is set to 20c. There is one room the house that is always 5c below the rest in the morning for some odd reason.

You can find a room temperature monitor on eBay for less than 5quid.

micah537 · 03-10-2020 5:31pm

You could get a Superser Gas heater and tank of gas for €120 or so and it'll heat up the place in no time. Just don't sleep with it on.

I lived in a place years ago with electric heaters (they were so bad the oven would warm the kitchen faster) and the electric bill was €450+ and we were still cold. Bought a Superser, they only needed to be used a few hours a day and you'd use less than two tanks a year. A tank of gas is only €30 and a lot more effective than a few hundred euro of electric heat, well in my experience but maybe the heaters were not working properly.

Darc19 · 03-10-2020 5:44pm

As above, a superserve gas heater would be ideal, but may be too big for one roo..

Another option is a heat lamp
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sanitas-SIL06UK-Infrared-Soothing-Therapy/dp/B06XGWV8B4

Only 100w, but looks like a desk lamp if you wanted to avoid it being noticed and would give a basic level of heat.

As for plugs, a multi plug adapter is good for up to 2,000 - 2500 watts of power.

But best is an oil heater - For a room, a small 600w oil heater or even 1,000w will be sufficient. Quite cheap and light too.

Graces7 · 03-10-2020 5:54pm

Here I rely on a solid fuel stove that also heats the water and runs a couple of radiators. Oh and will cook food too. And a bottled gas cooker. Avoiding electric.

Graces7 · 03-10-2020 5:56pm

Darc19 wrote: »

As above, a superserve gas heater would be ideal, but may be too big for one roo..

As for plugs, a multi plug adapter is good for up to 2,000 - 2500 watts of power."

I have two of these lined up on my kitchen table. Very efficient indeed.

eleventh · 03-10-2020 5:59pm

Graces7 wrote: »

There was a thread during the 2010 winter when folk were desperate to try to keep warm. Bleach bottles as hot water bottles, living and sleeping in one room.

I wasn't home during the day then, in 2010. The landlord in that place was good with heating. Although it wasn't on daytime Mon-Fri (and didn't need to be) it was on Saturday and Sunday all day.
Current LL has it on couple hours morning and evening. No difference weekends.
The situation has changed anyway with covid. People are based at home now full time.

Anyone know what oil heating cost per day would be for 1 bedroom apartment?

eleventh · 03-10-2020 6:10pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Such arrangements are no longer legal. Tenants are required to have control of their own heating.

I'm surprised to hear that. Are you sure? How is it done in a situation where the building is shared? I mean the way it's set up as far as I know is there's a place near the boiler where he sets it for the building.

Gumbo · 03-10-2020 6:13pm

OP, does the landlord live in the same flat as you?

eleventh · 03-10-2020 6:20pm

Gumbo wrote: »

OP, does the landlord live in the same flat as you?

No. I presume you mean same building. No, anyway, he doesn't live here at all.

Edit: That's a strange question Gumbo. What's your reason for asking it? Would it make a difference if a LL live did live in one of the apartments?

K.Flyer · 03-10-2020 6:43pm

Heating included in the bills is one thing, controlling it and limiting when it can be used is another.
As a tenant you must be able to control the heating system in your apartment by yourself.
See section 3 of this leaflet.

https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/RTB_House_Safety_leaflet.pdf

Claw Hammer · 04-10-2020 3:41pm

eleventh wrote: »

I'm talking about flat/apartment living where a landlord controls the heating of the building, sets when it comes on in the morning, for how long etc.

That is not legal, nor has it been for years. There should at least be supplementary heating by way of a fixed appliance in each unit which can be controlled by the tenant. If you call the Environmental Officer of your local authority, they will inspect the property and insist the landlord provides a proper heating system.

eleventh · 04-10-2020 4:08pm

How does this work financially? Does the landlord purchase the applicance and pay for it running?
I mean the arrangement at the start was that central heating is included in rent but would be morning/evening only. This suited at the time and I agreed to it.

Graces7 · 05-10-2020 5:24am

eleventh wrote: »

How does this work financially? Does the landlord purchase the applicance and pay for it running?
I mean the arrangement at the start was that central heating is included in rent but would be morning/evening only. This suited at the time and I agreed to it.

In one rental out of the nine I have had in Ireland, the owner bought in a gas heater and did leave the cylinder in. After that it was up to me to replace it.

Else it was always for me to get and use a heater. And no heating included in the rental of course. Any more than I would expect the landlord to be paying my ESB bill.

I know; you have heating included but surely you need to ask the ll about increasing it and/or paying for the extra if you need it

Far easier/more sensible to buy eg a gas heater as has been suggested here for daytime useage. Surely " heating included in rent " does not mean 24/7!

Claw Hammer · 05-10-2020 10:54am

eleventh wrote: »

How does this work financially? Does the landlord purchase the applicance and pay for it running?
I mean the arrangement at the start was that central heating is included in rent but would be morning/evening only. This suited at the time and I agreed to it.

It is up to the landlord to supply the appliance, which has to be fixed. A portable gas heater does not meet the required standard. How the fuel consumed is paid for, is a matter for negotiation between tenant and landlord.

JimmyVik · 05-10-2020 12:11pm

eleventh wrote: »

If you're a tenant and central heating is included in your rent, what hours of the day is it on for?

With many WFH this year or being asked to stay at home, are landlords being encouraged to provide all-day heating?

I think the government should be supporting them to do that. In my place, heating is off during the day. Other winters if I'm home, if it's a really cold day, I'd escape to somewhere that's warm for a few hours. That option isn't there this year.

I usually just turn my own heater on when im cold.

05-10-2020 12:20pm

Gumbo wrote: »

.........
Have you got a jumper on?

The government do support this by way of a working from home tax incentive of circa €3.20 per day.

The government tax credit is 20% relief on 10% of your heating/electricity bills iirc.

The €3.20/day you refer to is what employers can pay employees without BIK being paid.

JimmyVik · 05-10-2020 1:13pm

eleventh wrote: »

I wasn't home during the day then, in 2010. The landlord in that place was good with heating. Although it wasn't on daytime Mon-Fri (and didn't need to be) it was on Saturday and Sunday all day.
Current LL has it on couple hours morning and evening. No difference weekends.
The situation has changed anyway with covid. People are based at home now full time.

Anyone know what oil heating cost per day would be for 1 bedroom apartment?

Shouldnt be too expensive. Here is what it is using electricity. Oil is probably even less.

I keep a 35sqm granny flat at 20C all day and night these days for €1 - 1.50 per 24 hours on average with an electric heater and a thermostat. It goes up and down a bit depending on the outside temp. And that would be for about 6 months of the year.
I have an energy monitor on the socket for the heater and its also connected to a room thermostat. So I can track the cost down to the day.

eleventh · 05-10-2020 1:49pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I know; you have heating included but surely you need to ask the ll about increasing it and/or paying for the extra if you need it

Far easier/more sensible to buy eg a gas heater as has been suggested here for daytime useage. Surely " heating included in rent " does not mean 24/7!

Having all-day heating, I meant it to be available, not necessarily that it be on continuously. A few hours in the day could be enough. On a day where temp is around 0 though you might well want it continuously. I'd never have it 24/7 though, I'd want it off at night.
The rent is overpriced already. I wouldn't ask to pay more.

I realise now it should be controlled by the tenant, but that isn't set up here. It's controlled centrally. It would probably mean changing wiring etc to set up which I don't think he'd agree to.

Claw Hammer · 05-10-2020 2:28pm

eleventh wrote: »

Having all-day heating, I meant it to be available, not necessarily that it be on continuously. A few hours in the day could be enough. On a day where temp is around 0 though you might well want it continuously. I'd never have it 24/7 though, I'd want it off at night.
The rent is overpriced already. I wouldn't ask to pay more.

I realise now it should be controlled by the tenant, but that isn't set up here. It's controlled centrally. It would probably mean changing wiring etc to set up which I don't think he'd agree to.

He will have no choice if the council tell him to.

When should heating be on?

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