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IONITY - charging / fees / tips

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Comments

  • Options
    #572
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    If I had Ionity on my property, I would be looking for another service provider like easygo

    Well, as per the email last week, EasyGo were looking for new sites to install on... We now have 4 candidate locations: Kill, Cashel, Gorey and Stamullen!

    All come with 150kW capability (underused at this time).


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    #573
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    FFS. No idea what Ionity are playing at just as the sites are getting busy.

    Used Cashel twice last week totalling 65.4 kWh. Would not do that at the higher price. There was another EV charging each time. Some business ought to be better than no business.


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    #574
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    irishgrover wrote: »
    Really struggling to see how they will remain commercially viable......

    I don't think they want Ionity as a viable, stand alone entity.
    I think they want to use it as an exclusive addon/incentive to sell their brand of cars, just like Tesla.

    This is the problem with the private market. Let's say Easygo or another entity wants to compete with Ionity on a busy route - say the Naas road approaching Dublin.
    They spend hundreds of thousand of Euros on an installation, offer charging at 50c/kWh - Ionity immediately drop their price to 20c/kWh & keep it there until the competition go broke.
    They have no commercial imperative to operate at a profit if they are solely driven by increasing car sales from their parent companies - VW, Audi, BMW etc.

    Yes, a recurring subscription model - that's what all companies want - just like BMW tried with Apple Carplay & Tesla do with maps etc.


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    #575
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    It's worth saying nothing has changed about Ionity's pricing model since January. This is a change in Maingau's pricing model. I'm not saying it's any less crazy that Ionity did that back in January, but this has long since been bedded in.


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    #576
    eddhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    MJohnston wrote: »
    It's worth saying nothing has changed about Ionity's pricing model since January. This is a change in Maingau's pricing model. I'm not saying it's any less crazy that Ionity did that back in January, but this has long since been bedded in.

    Is Ionity not also 79c gross per kWh?

    They won't pay for their fancy network with no customers


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    #577
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    eddhorse wrote: »
    Is Ionity not also 79c gross per kWh?

    They won't pay for their fancy network with no customers

    Tesla hubs here must have cost hundred of thousands of Euros & are largely idle, most of the time. 10 stalls+ per location & they charge just €0.29/kWh.

    They are still largely empty most of the time & certainly wouldn't be profitable if they were a stand alone entity.

    Ionity are simply following suit IMO.

    Back to ECars 50kW single chargers I go :D.


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    #578
    eddhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    Kramer wrote: »
    Tesla hubs here must have cost hundred of thousands of Euros & are largely idle, most of the time. 10 stalls+ per location & they charge just €0.29/kWh.

    They are still largely empty most of the time & certainly wouldn't be profitable if they were a stand alone entity.

    Ionity are simply following suit IMO.

    Back to ECars 50kW single chargers I go :D.

    Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
    Ionity are there to make money.


  • Options
    #579
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    eddhorse wrote: »
    Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.

    Yes. Allegedly the cost of providing these is baked into the initial car's cost.
    eddhorse wrote: »
    Ionity are there to make money.

    Well they won't at 79c/kWh :).

    Ionity, it seems to me, are now fulfilling the exact same function as Tesla charging hubs - to facilitate sales of EVs from their parent car manufacturers.
    They'll also facilitate monthly, charging access subscriptions, for said manufacturers, Audi etc.

    Ionity isn't an independent charging network - it's a component of German car manufacturers.


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    #580
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    eddhorse wrote: »
    Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
    Ionity are there to make money.

    I dont know about that. You believe Ionity will be profitable?
    Its going to be a loss making venture for quite some time.


  • Options
    #581
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    slave1 wrote: »
    A true nail into the coffin, just got email Maingau prices for Ionity going to 73.11cent/kWh from September 1st.
    Ionity charge points will be well and truly freed up (and I've never seen a car charging at one ever!!)

    Ionity on M8 at Cashel had two cars (including mine) on Wednesday afternoon. Ionity on the M11 near Gorey had three cars (including mine) on Saturday afternoon. ECars had a Leaf charging at the 50kW charger so 3/4 and 1/2 in use.

    They’re definitely getting some use and came in very handy on my recent holiday but if the price doubles, I wouldn’t bother.


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    #582
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    eddhorse wrote: »
    Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
    Ionity are there to make money.

    Based on the public pricing structure, Ionity doesn't appear to be intended to make money. It appears to be structured to help sell charging memberships alongside EVs from the member manufacturers.


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    #583
    eddhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    liamog wrote: »
    Based on the public pricing structure, Ionity doesn't appear to be intended to make money. It appears to be structured to help sell charging memberships alongside EVs from the member manufacturers.

    Plausible way of keeping the spots empty alright for the member manufacturers who have cut a better deal.


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    #584
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    eddhorse wrote: »
    Plausible way of keeping the spots empty alright for the member manufacturers who have cut a better deal.

    I can see roughly where they are coming from. The head of Groupe PSA was asked about joining Ionity and said
    “We are not in the business of making highways. We are not in the business of making roads. We are not in the business of making petrol stations. We are not in the business of making charging networks.”
    “If the people’s representatives have voted for electric vehicles, they have to fund the investment of the charge network”
    “At the end of the day, car makers will not invest in charging networks because they’re not sure that this is the right technology. Why? Because it’s not their choice, it’s the choice of the parliaments.”

    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/business/tavares-why-should-peugeot-pay-electric-car-chargers/

    I can see why you would want to control access based on who's invested. In an ideal world we'd see Tesla and Ionity join up to offer mutual access, I believe Tesla's offer to allow other manufacturers to invest in, and provide access to the supercharger network was rejected for branding reasons.


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    #585
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114362098&postcount=56

    Bad News for you guys in Ireland, I guess those Ionity Chargers will be empty again.


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    #586
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Can't fill up with diesel or petrol at home though, I suppose is the point.

    Has the law changed around storing diesel or petrol at home? When I was small my father used to have a 1000Litre tank of diesel for the car and we'd have kept 20Litres of petrol in one of the army metal cans with a lockable spout


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    #587
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    redcup342 wrote: »
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114362098&postcount=56

    Bad News for you guys in Ireland, I guess those Ionity Chargers will be empty again.

    Not just Ireland, and if you read above we've been discussing it since yesterday


  • Options
    #588
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Not just Ireland, and if you read above we've been discussing it since yesterday

    Well it kind of is really, you guys only have eCars as a viable alternative.

    I'm still getting 37 cents / kWh on all Rapids except Ionity (there's lots of them)

    Ionity stalls were empty before over here, they'll just go back to empty again :)

    The Dutch for example don't really care all that much about Ionity since they have Fastned (better than Ionity)

    You're a bit funked in Ireland, no competition at all.


  • Options
    #589
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Well it kind of is really, you guys only have eCars as a viable alternative.

    I'm still getting 37 cents / kWh on all Rapids except Ionity (there's lots of them)

    Ionity stalls were empty before over here, they'll just go back to empty again :)

    The Dutch for example don't really care all that much about Ionity since they have Fastned (better than Ionity)

    You're a bit funked in Ireland, no competition at all.

    Those millions in EU grants and richest automakers in the world financing obviously wasnt enough to stop that 100% increase


  • Options
    #590
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Has the law changed around storing diesel or petrol at home? When I was small my father used to have a 1000Litre tank of diesel for the car and we'd have kept 20Litres of petrol in one of the army metal cans with a lockable spout

    No idea, but you’d still have to get that diesel/petrol from a petrol station at petrol station prices, is my point ;)


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    #591
    innrain
    Registered Users Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭innrain


    Electrify America founded in the aftermath of the dieselgate by the same or about, has it pricing structure to deter the use of EVs

    attachment.php?attachmentid=523609&stc=1&d=1597919861

    At Ionity in 35 mins it would charge my car about 40kWh. which is about 270 km drive
    At EA assuming the middle tariff that would cost about 22 dollars. With 22 USD one can buy about 25 l of petrol in California. Worth to mention that in the same state electricity is cheaper than in Ireland.

    We were naive to think they've created Ionity or Electrify America for all good reasons.
    It was good while it lasted though. At least we should learn and next time when they'd be caught red handed, should not get away so cheaply.


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    #592
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    50c/min for 125kW is 24c/kWh, that's cheaper than eCars, can't see how that's a discouragement.


  • Options
    #593
    innrain
    Registered Users Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭innrain


    liamog wrote: »
    50c/min for 125kW is 24c/kWh, that's cheaper than eCars, can't see how that's a discouragement.
    That pricing is in a market where 1l of petrol <80c of a dollar and average price for 1kWh is a bit more that 10c of a dollar.


  • Options
    #594
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Again—you can't compare charging network prices directly to the cost of fuel at filling stations.

    An ICE driver will get 100% of their fuel at filling stations.
    Most EV drivers will get far less than 100% of their electric at charging stations.


  • Options
    #595
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    innrain wrote: »
    That pricing is in a market where 1l of petrol <80c of a dollar and average price for 1kWh is a bit more that 10c of a dollar.

    Tesla charge $0.28 per kWh in the US, are you also now of the opinion that Tesla are pricing superchargers to discourage people from switching to EVs, presumably to protect their ICE business too.


  • Options
    #596
    innrain
    Registered Users Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭innrain


    If you would believe the mission statements of the two companies cited
    https://ionity.eu/en/about.html
    https://www.electrifyamerica.com/about-us/
    you would think that they refer to all and not most drivers. But at the end of the day they are private companies and they can decide their pricing as they wish. So far this month my Maingau bill stands at 76 and it would probably will reach 100. September coming I and lots other CCS users would think twice before plugging at Ionity which would hurt CHAdeMO fellow users who don't even have the expensive option.


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    #597
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Again—you can't compare charging network prices directly to the cost of fuel at filling stations.

    Most ice drivers will, part of the email Ecars sent out explaining their pricing was a comparison between a diesel 1.6 ford focus and a leaf, their justification of the price was that it would be 35% cheaper to use a leaf on their network compared to the focus.

    This is really a step back for BEV,s Ionity was touted as the ideal network with no chademo and super fast charging speeds,


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    #598
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    This is really a step back for BEV,s Ionity was touted as the ideal network with no chademo and super fast charging speeds,

    I can't say I'm that surprised, maybe it will finally answer the question for people who thought that Ionity was an international charging company, and not a charging network to enable the manufactures to sell cars (with a charging subscription).

    If I could pay 80c/kWh to charge my car at a Tesla Supercharger, I'd be delighted as for those rare occasions when I need it would really make a difference.


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    #599
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    KCross wrote: »
    Maybe it highlights the real cost of these networks

    It's like the example from earlier in The Netherlands, Fastned's walk up price is 59c/kWh.


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    #600
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    KCross wrote: »
    EV drivers will need to get used to these prices and ensure they buy an EV with the appropriate battery size for them that limits their reliance on high powered rapids.

    Exactly. It's always been said here "don't buy a car that will rely on the public network". Mostly because of reliability, but also because of costs. I won't use public charging too often, and when I do I'll likely use the cheapest fast charger that's convenient to my trip (Ioniq battery size doesn't really warrant the faster speeds of ionity for the additional cost). As our family grows and we upgrade to a bigger EV (with bigger battery) i'll likely not need to fast charge half as much, but when that time comes i'll do the maths and see how much time I save using Ionity vs ESB. For the handful of times a year I might need to use Ionity I won't notice the cost.


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    #601
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    KCross wrote: »
    EV drivers will need to get used to these prices and ensure they buy an EV with the appropriate battery size for them that limits their reliance on high powered rapids.

    So you're saying EV motorway motoring or regular long distance travelling should be within the sole purview of the more affluent then, i.e. those who can afford to buy 80/90/100kWh cars, at upwards of €100,000?

    That's not going to help the environment in the move to greener means of transport.

    :P.


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