Heartbroken about rapid decline in 9y/o Springer Spaniel

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 11:58am #1

Hi,

Our Field Springer has had a sudden change in health in the last 6 weeks. We've been to the vet multiple times, had x-rays done etc. They think her symptoms are explained by the spondylosis seen on her spine/tailbone, and the "mild" (their term) arthritis seen in all of her joints/sockets.

I was wondering if anyone else has ever seen similar fast changes in their own dog, because the speed of change here is overwhelming. 6 weeks ago she was living her normal life, daily walks, chasing balls, hopping around excited when someone comes to the house or room, or stalking anyone making/eating food. Now she's struggling to get in or out of her dog bed (in the house), up even one step, and moving very stiff.

Somehow, she seems worse since the x-ray, because now we can hear her hip bones clicking when she walks, which was definitely never happening before.

We know dogs don't live forever, and 9 is a senior age. It's just we had expected to see these sort of age-related symptoms come on over time, not pretty much overnight. To the best of our knowledge, she didn't have an accident or fall to trigger these changes, but it is possible she may have fell trying to get on the couch when no one was home. She has slipped trying to get up a few times in the last few weeks, but now seems to be accepting that she can't get up anymore.

I would really appreciate if people could share their experiences, because we're demented trying to comfort her, and medication doesn't seem to bring enough relief..

beveragelady · 18-03-2019 4:15pm

My boy was on Rimadyl for a while, then Metacam. I can't remember why we switched. The kept him ticking along happily for years, though he never recovered his youthful bounce. We had plenty of good times after he was diagnosed. Holidays, hillwalks, general messing around. There's a bit of adjusting, but he was never miserable.

Try to bring your dog for a swim if you can. The big muscle in the back leg, the arse muscle if you like, can waste as the spine tightens. Swimming can help with this.

Another thing I remember being told is that the symptoms sort of plateau after a while and that definitely happened with us. He just stopped worsening and I was able to adjust things so he was happy. I lifted him into and out of the van, and carried him up the stairs at bed time. I made him a very comfy bed out of my old memory foam mattress so he was well-cushioned and warm.

I took him for massage therapy and physiotherapy and though they helped, he hated it so much that it became counter-productive. I did get a few tips and exercises that were helpful though. My vet recommended a physiotherapist and somebody here put me onto a massage therapist. I can PM you the massage therapist's details if you like, I don't know if I'm allowed to post them here.

Keep an eye on her toenails. Her posture might change, and she'll possibly be getting less exercise, so her toenails might start growing longer than they should. It makes a huge difference to her general comfort if they're kept in check.

Watch that her weight doesn't become a problem. Less exercise - increased weight - more stress on joints. It happens so easily, particularly as your instinct might be to spoil her.

Do spoil her though. Obviously.

tk123 · 18-03-2019 4:17pm

How long has she been on medication and what is it? Normally if it’s not working you’d try something from a different group - I didn’t know about different groups until I changed vets. My advice would be to rest her and get her pain controlled before you do anything else. More than likely you’re going to be bombarded with suggestions of supplements, hydro, cbd oil etc to try but if she’s in pain she needs pain reflief first before you do anything else. My dog will be 10 this year and has has multiple surgeries and injuries and was running around like a spring lamb this morning lol. He’s gets fish oil, dasuquin and weekly laser. This time last year he was in a lot of pain and just started the laser..the year before he was about to get surgery for his cruciate(!) Having a good vet is key too - my guy was misdiagnosed at my old vets but the vet we see now is a pain specialist and has really turned things around for him.
Take a look at canine arthritis managements FB page too - there’s loads of advice and support

VonVix · 18-03-2019 4:24pm

If you feel you have hit a wall with your dog, the vet and her medication, no harm in seeking a second opinion from a different vet. A different set of eyes and experience can make a difference. You can go to your own vet and request a copy of your dog's veterinary history.

Also beveragelady makes some important notes when it comes to nails and pet weight! You want to be mindful of nails getting long that they are touching off the floor/bending her toes, this can make walking uncomfortable and increase stress on joints.

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 4:43pm

beveragelady wrote: »

My boy was on Rimadyl for a while, then Metacam. I can't remember why we switched. The kept him ticking along happily for years, though he never recovered his youthful bounce. We had plenty of good times after he was diagnosed. Holidays, hillwalks, general messing around. There's a bit of adjusting, but he was never miserable.

Try to bring your dog for a swim if you can. The big muscle in the back leg, the arse muscle if you like, can waste as the spine tightens. Swimming can help with this.

Another thing I remember being told is that the symptoms sort of plateau after a while and that definitely happened with us. He just stopped worsening and I was able to adjust things so he was happy. I lifted him into and out of the van, and carried him up the stairs at bed time. I made him a very comfy bed out of my old memory foam mattress so he was well-cushioned and warm.

I took him for massage therapy and physiotherapy and though they helped, he hated it so much that it became counter-productive. I did get a few tips and exercises that were helpful though. My vet recommended a physiotherapist and somebody here put me onto a massage therapist. I can PM you the massage therapist's details if you like, I don't know if I'm allowed to post them here.

Keep an eye on her toenails. Her posture might change, and she'll possibly be getting less exercise, so her toenails might start growing longer than they should. It makes a huge difference to her general comfort if they're kept in check.

Watch that her weight doesn't become a problem. Less exercise - increased weight - more stress on joints. It happens so easily, particularly as your instinct might be to spoil her.

Do spoil her though. Obviously.

Thanks beveragelady for sharing your thoughts on this.

She loves swimming, but we usually take a break during the colder winter months. I'll make sure to get to the water with her this week at least once to let her have a stretch. We also ordered an orthopaedic memory foam bed for her which I'm hoping will arrive tomorrow.

She isn't very happy going to vets etc. for appointments but i'll try anything to give her some relief. I'm based in Cork City area, if your massage therapist is near here, please do pop me a PM, much appreciated.

And yes, will definitely watch her weight, she's very food orientated so we've always had to keep that in check. Luckily she's in a normal range already.

We're doing our very best to spoil her. It's so tough seeing her go through this!

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 4:52pm

tk123 wrote: »

How long has she been on medication and what is it? Normally if it’s not working you’d try something from a different group - I didn’t know about different groups until I changed vets. My advice would be to rest her and get her pain controlled before you do anything else. More than likely you’re going to be bombarded with suggestions of supplements, hydro, cbd oil etc to try but if she’s in pain she needs pain reflief first before you do anything else. My dog will be 10 this year and has has multiple surgeries and injuries and was running around like a spring lamb this morning lol. He’s gets fish oil, dasuquin and weekly laser. This time last year he was in a lot of pain and just started the laser..the year before he was about to get surgery for his cruciate(!) Having a good vet is key too - my guy was misdiagnosed at my old vets but the vet we see now is a pain specialist and has really turned things around for him.
Take a look at canine arthritis managements FB page too - there’s loads of advice and support

Thanks tk123. She's been on rimadyl for about 3 or 4 weeks out of the last 6. At times, she seemed mildly better on it, but other days it didn't seem to have an impact. It was recommended to us to try CBD oil, and it seems to offer similar relief to her as the rimadyl, based on our observations.

After the x-ray, the vets gave us gabapentin and tramadexe to use with the rimadyl. The tramadexe, which is a synthetic opiate I think, doesn't seem to agree with her - upset tummy and panting, so we've stopped that for now. None of the above have actually seemed to properly relieve her pain though, as her movement is still so restricted.

We're also started on a course of cartrophen injections [which she had also had last year for an issue with her front paw, which is fine now]

I will definitely go check out those groups on Facebook.

If your pain specialist vet is based in the south, I would really appreciate if you could PM the details to me.

Thanks again for the advice.

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 4:54pm

VonVix wrote: »

If you feel you have hit a wall with your dog, the vet and her medication, no harm in seeking a second opinion from a different vet. A different set of eyes and experience can make a difference. You can go to your own vet and request a copy of your dog's veterinary history.

Also beveragelady makes some important notes when it comes to nails and pet weight! You want to be mindful of nails getting long that they are touching off the floor/bending her toes, this can make walking uncomfortable and increase stress on joints.

Thanks - we have been using the same vets her whole life, but I agree it might be no harm to look for another opinion.

Her weight is in check for now, though I'm sure the reduction is physical activity is going to have an impact so we'll be keeping an eye on that. Same with her nails I'm sure.

beveragelady · 18-03-2019 5:21pm

I forgot about the Cartrophen. We did that every six months. I'm not sure that it did any good but the vet assured me that it definitely wasn't going to do any harm so we stuck with it. I had the same attitude to supplements and everything else: If it won't harm him I'll give it a try.

My chap was on Tramadol for a good while and it didn't seem to have any side effects so we stuck with that too. The vet explained that he might become dependent on it with prolonged use. My attitude was that he wasn't going to get fired from his job or lose custody of his kids, so if it made him feel better it didn't really matter if he was an opiate junkie. (When we made that decision I thought we were looking at another six months at most, but he kept on trucking for nearly three years. Obviously if he had been a younger man I would have had to consider it much more carefully.) He was cheerful and perky and I knew he wasn't in pain so I never regretted that decision.

aonb · 18-03-2019 8:46pm

If your dog is showing symptoms suddenly, maybe shes just gotten to the stage where jumping up on somthing has hurt her enough to restrict her movements...
Now that you know shes got issues, its worth considering
* Oil or some sort to help joints - I use glucosamine/chrondroitin and find it helps my guys, but folk on here have recommended various oils... CBD? Salmon?
* Stop all jumping up - we have a little ramp thingit for the sofa. No more chasing balls/sticks which our guys are passionate about

* Raised bed on a sling - definitely see a difference in the mornings when he gets up - not so stiff
* A heat pad in his bed, to keep old bones/joints warm
* Loose a bit of weight if necessary
* Short walks a few times a day rather than huge long walk. I also find that walking in fields/headlands etc, helps rather than walking always on the road/concrete. Towel dry him well after wet walks, so hes not cold.

Its sad when our old dogs start to show symptoms of old age, making them as comfortable as possible, with as much help as possible to relieve symptoms will help a little, and will make you feel a little better in that you feel you're doing something

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 9:31pm

beveragelady wrote: »

I forgot about the Cartrophen. We did that every six months. I'm not sure that it did any good but the vet assured me that it definitely wasn't going to do any harm so we stuck with it. I had the same attitude to supplements and everything else: If it won't harm him I'll give it a try.

My chap was on Tramadol for a good while and it didn't seem to have any side effects so we stuck with that too. The vet explained that he might become dependent on it with prolonged use. My attitude was that he wasn't going to get fired from his job or lose custody of his kids, so if it made him feel better it didn't really matter if he was an opiate junkie. (When we made that decision I thought we were looking at another six months at most, but he kept on trucking for nearly three years. Obviously if he had been a younger man I would have had to consider it much more carefully.) He was cheerful and perky and I knew he wasn't in pain so I never regretted that decision.

I'll speak to the vet again this week during her injection visit and explain to them about her side effects from the painkillers, maybe there's something they can help with. It would be great if she could tolerate the tramadol, I was on that myself years ago for a wisdom tooth and it was the only thing that gave relief. That's a good way to look at it, her only job is putting up with us and we're certainly not going to fire her! thanks again.

Wearandtear · 18-03-2019 9:34pm

aonb wrote: »

If your dog is showing symptoms suddenly, maybe shes just gotten to the stage where jumping up on somthing has hurt her enough to restrict her movements...
Now that you know shes got issues, its worth considering
* Oil or some sort to help joints - I use glucosamine/chrondroitin and find it helps my guys, but folk on here have recommended various oils... CBD? Salmon?
* Stop all jumping up - we have a little ramp thingit for the sofa. No more chasing balls/sticks which our guys are passionate about
* Raised bed on a sling - definitely see a difference in the mornings when he gets up - not so stiff
* A heat pad in his bed, to keep old bones/joints warm
* Loose a bit of weight if necessary
* Short walks a few times a day rather than huge long walk. I also find that walking in fields/headlands etc, helps rather than walking always on the road/concrete. Towel dry him well after wet walks, so hes not cold.

Its sad when our old dogs start to show symptoms of old age, making them as comfortable as possible, with as much help as possible to relieve symptoms will help a little, and will make you feel a little better in that you feel you're doing something

Thanks - she's just started on a glucosamine supplement this week, as well as injections of it, so fingers crossed that will improve her pain. She's figured out now that she can't jump up, but she hasn't connected jumping down with the pain yet, so we're working on that part.

Heat pad is a good idea. She does seem to prefer being tucked in lately, we thought it was just winter, but maybe the heat is giving her some relief (she sleeps indoors so it's warm already)

Very sad alright, I wish she could tell us what helps and what doesn't help

em_cat · 18-03-2019 10:19pm

There’s a lot of really great advice here which is heartwarming to see, OP so sorry to hear your poor dog is in so much pain as the ortho pain is always the worse, IMO, and often misdiagnosed or written off.

We found using some of those big floor puzzle pieces or cheap Pilates/ yoga mats in the areas where our lad likes to play as he can trot after things but not slip or twist but also help him to get up easier. Built a ramp using the same stuff for the sofa and bed so he can get up but not slip.

Be aware that Gabapentin has a common side effect of increased appetite so keep that in mind.

tk123 · 19-03-2019 2:18pm

I didn't find Cartrophen any use for Bailey but at the time he was being treated for arthritis when he had a muscle tear(!) After that I got an opinion on his knee from our current vets.. not a second opinion more so I wanted somebody who looks at knees all day to check his over..sure enough needed the knee fixed... It was the iliopsoas diagnosis that turned things around for us as we were able to rehab it and all good - that can also present as back pain so might be something to get checked OP or anyone else who'd dog is very sore and nothing seems to be working as it has a knock on effect all over!

Bailey's also had his fleece on most mornings lately with the frost and damp weather because it keeps his muscles warm - he loves it to so worth the funny looks!

cocker5 · 19-03-2019 3:42pm

Sorry to hear about your spaniel Op and I wouldn’t consider 9 old tbh

I have a nearly 14 year old cocker and while he doesn’t have exact same thing as your guy he has something similar.. arthritis and hip dysplasia

Here’s my current treatment plan:

Yumove advance 360 supplements (get via your vet)
Fish oils
Bone broth
Tumeric paste
Rosehip / vitamin c

All of the above daily - they can take a month or so to take full effect

Weekly hydro sessions - personally I wouldnt swim a dog with arthritis in Irish waters as they are too cold .. hydro should be at room temperature

Keep his hind area warm.. Cody always has a fleece (over his hind legs) etc when weather is cold

Try acupuncture

Keep weight lean .. feed foods high in supplements for joints - raw chicken feet etc

Best of luck x

Wearandtear · 19-03-2019 6:07pm

@ em_cat Yoga mats are a great idea, thanks. Yes, really appreciate all these people sharing their experiences, it is heart warming. This is our first dog so we've no experience with the senior side of life. It's a big change for her too, as she was such an active thing.

Thanks for the warning about the appetite. Though it'll be hard to tell the difference with this one!

Wearandtear · 19-03-2019 6:11pm

@tk123 You do see a lot more dogs (big and small) wearing coats etc during the winter though, it's great to see people are taking care of their pals like that. When she had the issue with her paw last year we definitely saw an improvement after the cartrophen so we are still hoping it'll do some good here. I think we were hoping that she had an injury rather than it just being old age settling in, because it all came on for her so quickly..

Wearandtear · 19-03-2019 6:16pm

cocker5 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your spaniel Op and I wouldn’t consider 9 old tbh

I have a nearly 14 year old cocker and while he doesn’t have exact same thing as your guy he has something similar.. arthritis and hip dysplasia

Here’s my current treatment plan:

Yumove advance 360 supplements (get via your vet)
Fish oils
Bone broth
Tumeric paste
Rosehip / vitamin c

All of the above daily - they can take a month or so to take full effect

Weekly hydro sessions - personally I wouldnt swim a dog with arthritis in Irish waters as they are too cold .. hydro should be at room temperature

Keep his hind area warm.. Cody always has a fleece (over his hind legs) etc when weather is cold

Try acupuncture

Keep weight lean .. feed foods high in supplements for joints - raw chicken feet etc

Best of luck x

Thank you so much for sharing these details, they are very similar breeds so this is really helpful.

We didn't think she was old yet either, but the vets do! She's only gotten her first grey hairs in the last few months, but they are spreading.

I think we'll look into hydro this week. We just took her for a swim today and she really enjoyed it, she moved so freely, it was great to see. She was cold afterwards though, but we dried her up quickly. We're happy now that at least it's coming into the warmer weather so it might be easier on her joints while we all adjust to her new condition.

cocker5 · 19-03-2019 9:34pm

Wearandtear wrote: »

cocker5 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your spaniel Op and I wouldn’t consider 9 old tbh

I have a nearly 14 year old cocker and while he doesn’t have exact same thing as your guy he has something similar.. arthritis and hip dysplasia

Here’s my current treatment plan:

Yumove advance 360 supplements (get via your vet)
Fish oils
Bone broth
Tumeric paste
Rosehip / vitamin c

All of the above daily - they can take a month or so to take full effect

Weekly hydro sessions - personally I wouldnt swim a dog with arthritis in Irish waters as they are too cold .. hydro should be at room temperature

Keep his hind area warm.. Cody always has a fleece (over his hind legs) etc when weather is cold

Try acupuncture

Keep weight lean .. feed foods high in supplements for joints - raw chicken feet etc

Best of luck x

Thank you so much for sharing these details, they are very similar breeds so this is really helpful.

We didn't think she was old yet either, but the vets do! She's only gotten her first grey hairs in the last few months, but they are spreading.

I think we'll look into hydro this week. We just took her for a swim today and she really enjoyed it, she moved so freely, it was great to see. She was cold afterwards though, but we dried her up quickly. We're happy now that at least it's coming into the warmer weather so it might be easier on her joints while we all adjust to her new condition.

Where r u based Op? There are 2 hydro places Dublin area and one in Kildare (that I know of)

Def get a drying coat - amazing for after swimming

https://ruffandtumbledogcoats.com/

Wearandtear · 21-03-2019 9:36pm

cocker5 wrote: »

Where r u based Op? There are 2 hydro places Dublin area and one in Kildare (that I know of)

Def get a drying coat - amazing for after swimming

https://ruffandtumbledogcoats.com/

Based in Cork so I'm going to look into the local options, back at the vets tomorrow morning for an injection, so I'll hopefully sort something there. I'm going to ask the vet if they would recommend physio or hydro first, or a combo.

Those coats are too cute, thanks for sharing. I'm also looking into getting her a wetsuit, which I'm sure she'll hate but I hate to think of her pain being worsened by the cold water.

cocker5 · 21-03-2019 10:10pm

Wearandtear wrote: »

cocker5 wrote: »

Where r u based Op? There are 2 hydro places Dublin area and one in Kildare (that I know of)

Def get a drying coat - amazing for after swimming

https://ruffandtumbledogcoats.com/

Based in Cork so I'm going to look into the local options, back at the vets tomorrow morning for an injection, so I'll hopefully sort something there. I'm going to ask the vet if they would recommend physio or hydro first, or a combo.

Those coats are too cute, thanks for sharing. I'm also looking into getting her a wetsuit, which I'm sure she'll hate but I hate to think of her pain being worsened by the cold water.

Keep us posted !

http://www.corkcaninerehabcentre.com/

tk123 · 22-03-2019 12:22pm

Wearandtear wrote: »

Based in Cork so I'm going to look into the local options,

My guy had surgeries in Gilabbey and I found them very good - like he'd be dead if it wasn't for Shane(!) Time can be the best medicine sometimes so just be careful - it's easy sometimes to think buying x,y,z is going to fix things. I did an online course specific to rehabbing Bailey's injury and we've kept up some of the phyio - a good vet should be able to advise on some exercises but again.. I can't stress enough to not go jumping into things until speaking to your vet. For Bailey's injury for example - swimming was not recommended but treadmill was etc etc

Wearandtear · 22-03-2019 7:20pm

I have to say she's been a fraction better these last two days. She's nowhere near what she was 7 weeks ago before her sudden change, but I think her new lower orthopaedic bed is helping, alongside the swims, injections, glucosamine and pain relief. She's still stiff, and weak, and cracking, moving around the house less by her own choice, which is out of character, but the combo of CBD, rimadyl, and gabapentin seems to be helping now.
I know it must seem like we're flinging darts at the bullseye but it's new ground for us.

I discussed a lot of options with the (different)vet this morning, and she's is recommending hydro in particular, so we're booking in for that.

After seeing the relief swimming seems to bring, we've been doing some research, and came across this, linked below. Depending on how her hydro sessions go, I'm tempted to set something up like this for her in the garden with a heater so she can have a daily stretch (without over doing it of course)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R1S7X5Z9SFD5KV/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01LYU08N1

....... · 27-03-2019 12:50pm

That pool looks amazing!!

Wearandtear · 27-03-2019 1:04pm

....... wrote: »

That pool looks amazing!!

We've gone ahead and ordered a similar model/ same size, with a pump and heater. Her long walks might be over but she'll still have her swims to look forward to!!

....... · 27-03-2019 1:15pm

Wearandtear wrote: »

We've gone ahead and ordered a similar model/ same size, with a pump and heater. Her long walks might be over but she'll still have her swims to look forward to!!

Thats great.

Similar thing happened with a Springer Spaniel of ours years ago - the onset was not as rapid but she went from being a crazy Springer to occasional yelping (which turned out to be hip pain) to being very rickety. For such an active dog it was heartbreaking.

For us glucosamine was a bit of a magic bullet and she improved dramatically for about 2 years but then began to decline again. We never knew what age she was as she was a rescue but she lived a good life with us for about 9 or 10 years, much loved and still fondly remembered all the time.

I hope your dog gets some good improvement.

Wearandtear · 29-03-2019 12:52pm

....... wrote: »

Thats great.

Similar thing happened with a Springer Spaniel of ours years ago - the onset was not as rapid but she went from being a crazy Springer to occasional yelping (which turned out to be hip pain) to being very rickety. For such an active dog it was heartbreaking.

For us glucosamine was a bit of a magic bullet and she improved dramatically for about 2 years but then began to decline again. We never knew what age she was as she was a rescue but she lived a good life with us for about 9 or 10 years, much loved and still fondly remembered all the time.

I hope your dog gets some good improvement.

Thanks for sharing your Springer's experience. I am obviously bias but they are a magical breed. Our girl was also so active so I think the contrast has been a shock alright.

She's on daily glucosamine supplements, as well as a course of injections, and I do think she's less stiff as a result. Fingers crossed it will continue to help her.

Getting her pool/ heater etc set up over the weekend, can't wait to see her excitement when she realises she can go swimming in the backyard

....... · 29-03-2019 12:58pm

Do let us know how she gets on! Id say she will be DELIGHTED!!

Wearandtear · 12-06-2019 8:14pm

I'm long overdue an update here! Sorry for the delay.

Great news is that she's no longer in pain, and is back to loving life and being playful etc. The course of cartrophen injections really made a difference, alongside everything else I listed back along the thread, and a slight adjustment to her pain medication. Obviously she's not able for the longer walks that would have been part of her routine up to now, but we're still getting out with her and taking her to her favourite spots.

So grateful for the new lease of life, and we're spoiling her of course. Impressively, even with reduced exercise, she's maintained her weight, so we're able to give her treats etc as we monitor it.

honeybear · 12-06-2019 8:16pm

Dog lover here. Lovely to hear an update.

Hunchback · 12-06-2019 8:22pm

Any chance of a pic of her?

I adore Springers, they're just the best

Wearandtear · 13-06-2019 11:08am

Some of my favourite pictures of her, she's a heart breaker..! Though this is my first time attaching pictures on here, so hope it works.

Heartbroken about rapid decline in 9y/o Springer Spaniel

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