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Lens question

  • 05-04-2021 9:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭


    I have a canon 650D. I have the 18-55 kit lens, the nifty fifty and a 75-300 zoom lens.

    I’ve three small children and would love to get some decent group shots, posed and natural. I love the photos of them individually with the nifty fifty but struggle to get the settings right for them together with it. Is this a settings thing or is it just better for single subject shots?

    Budget isn’t huge. I was looking at the 24mm 2.4 which seems very cheap but I thought might be a nice option with what I have.

    So I guess I’m asking should I stick with what I have and learn how to use them better or am I missing a lens and if so which one?

    Hope this makes sense.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,901 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    What's going wrong with the group shots you're taking with your current lens? Difficulty getting everyone in the frame, or can't get everyone in focus, or something else?


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PinkChick


    What's going wrong with the group shots you're taking with your current lens? Difficulty getting everyone in the frame, or can't get everyone in focus, or something else?

    Getting all in focus with the nifty fifty. Shots boring with kit lens and often out of focus on one or two


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    PinkChick wrote: »
    Getting all in focus with the nifty fifty. Shots boring with kit lens and often out of focus on one or two

    Hey, have you tried just stopping down (closing the iris) to get more in focus.

    Also, “shots boring”, light is the key. Light is one of the most important factors.

    A new lens won’t necessarily be the answer to your problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,901 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I'm assuming your 50 is an f1.4 or f1.8. If so, and you're shooting at that aperture, you're going to have quite a narrow depth of field - meaning that the space font-to-back of your scene that is in focus will not be very large. If the three kids aren't all uniformly beside each other, ones forwards or backwards fro the point you're focusing on are going to be out of focus. First thing to do is to stop down the lens a bit, maybe to f4 or so. This will let less light in, so you'll have to drop your shutter speed or raise your ISO to compensate, but you'll get more depth of field, and so more of the kids will be in focus. If that's still not enough, change the aperture to f5.6 or 6.3 - basically, the higher the f number, the smaller the aperture (the "light hole of the lens"), the bigger the depth of field. So play around with it until you get all you want into focus. Or be creative with the narrow depth of field of larger apertures, and make the out of focus bits a feature of the shot. Use A mode (Aperture Priority) on your camera to manually set the aperture, and let the camera figure out the rest of the settings for you. Experiment with different aperture settings.

    I personally prefer the 24mm focal length to 50mm for family shots, so that other lens could be an option too. Use your kit lens at 24mm to see if you like that focal length (obviously it won't be f2.8, and won't be as sharp as the prime, but it will give you a rough preview of what you'll get in the frame). I assume the lens you're talking about is an f2.8, so it's still pretty "fast" in terms of aperture, but as it's a wider lens (in terms of focal length), it will naturally have a better depth of field. So at f2.8, it will have more depth of field than your 50mm at the same aperture. So with that lens, you might have more leeway with depth of field than the 50mm. But that's not to say you can't get great, in focus, family shots with the 50 once you use the appropriate settings.

    Just remember that just because a lens is 1.4 or 1.8 or 2.8, it doesn't mean that you have to use that aperture. Change the aperture to suit the effect you want to achieve. In fact, most lenses tend to be a bit sharper stopped down a bit to a lower aperture. Only use the full, widest aperture if you a) are in low light and want to absolutely maximise the amount of light you can gather, or b) want to creatively use the narrow depth fo field.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    PinkChick wrote: »
    I love the photos of them individually with the nifty fifty but struggle to get the settings right for them together with it. Is this a settings thing or is it just better for single subject shots?

    Budget isn’t huge. I was looking at the 24mm 2.4 which seems very cheap but I thought might be a nice option with what I have.
    PinkChick wrote: »
    Getting all in focus with the nifty fifty. Shots boring with kit lens and often out of focus on one or two

    It sounds like you're using too wide an aperture (the main selling point of the 50mm) and so reducing your depth of field so much that it can't cope with three lively faces in different focal planes. You can test this out in a playful way by asking the three of them to stick their heads together, ear-to-ear-to-ear, and take a few shots at whatever f/stop you use that gets good results for the solo pictures.

    If you're already using an aperture that gives you an increased depth of field for the group shots, the "boring" result could be that you have too much d.o.f. and they children's faces aren't standing out from the background - quite likely with the 18-55mm, especially at the shorter end of the zoom. In this case, using the 75-300mm at the longer end of its range (if you can place yourself far enough away from the children!) and with a relatively large aperture (the maximum f/5.6 probably) might get you a more interesting shot.

    I have the 24mm and it's a nice lens to use ... but I don't think it'll solve your problems. I mostly use mine for urban landscape shots, especially at night.

    Edit: Gregor Samsa posted while I was writing! :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PinkChick


    Thanks for the replies. I think I need to figure out the lens I have better! Will play around. Don’t use the nifty fifty at 1.8 for more than one but still find it hard to get all in focus. Will experiment and okay around. Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison


    Nothing wrong with the 18-55!

    One of my best ever shots was taken using this lens.

    If you're shooting in auto you need to change to AV/TV or go Manual.

    Experiment with the settings. It costs nothing.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the selling point of the 50mm is it's good for portraiture because of the shallow depth of field - throwing distracting backgrounds out of focus, etc.
    however, that will also work against you in group shots unless everyone is roughly the same distance from the lens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PinkChick


    Nothing wrong with the 18-55!

    One of my best ever shots was taken using this lens.

    If you're shooting in auto you need to change to AV/TV or go Manual.

    Experiment with the settings. It costs nothing.

    I usually use manual but maybe I shouldn’t be until I get better at it


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    aperture priority all the way for me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison


    PinkChick wrote: »
    I usually use manual but maybe I shouldn’t be until I get better at it


    If they are still and the light is good with either the 18-55mm or the 50mm

    put in to AV mode and set the aperture to 5.6. Set the ISO to auto also.

    If all comes to all set it to 'P' The camera will do all the thinking for you there.

    If they are moving set it to 1000/sec' in TV mode.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PinkChick


    If they are still and the light is good with either the 18-55mm or the 50mm

    put in to AV mode and set the aperture to 5.6. Set the ISO to auto also.

    If all comes to all set it to 'P' The camera will do all the thinking for you there.

    If they are moving set it to 1000/sec' in TV mode.

    On AV mode how do you set the iso to automatic?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    PinkChick wrote: »
    On AV mode how do you set the iso to automatic?

    You don't specifically do it in AV mode. Press the ISO button on the top of the camera to display the options, and select AUTO from there. From then on, the camera will choose what it feels is the best ISO for the scene you're shooting - but beware: this will also affect the shutter speed it determines is correct for the aperture you're working with.

    I mostly shoot in Av mode, but pick the ISO myself to give me the range of shutter speeds I think is appropriate for the scene.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭Adrian.Sadlier


    I have often fallen into the trap of buying new/better kit to get better photos. A bit like a golf player constantly upgrading his clubs.

    Sometimes its better to spend some money on training rather than kit. A good photography course is cheaper than a lens and will always be of use, no matter what kit you get in the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    There are debt of field calculators online, I wouldn't use them as such but they are worth a look to give you an idea. You can see at 5ft and f1.8 what area is in focus etc... And so on... Might be worth having a look at for a few mins? Is your camera a crop camera? So your 50mm could be the equivalent of 50x1.6? (might be relevant if plugging data into those calculators if it doesn't ask camera model)

    I have some expensive lenses and I've taken photos where one eye is in focus and the other isn't, so a new lens won't fix this, it's worth understanding your debt of field limitations. If you are taking family portraits indoors a flash can also be a big help in certain situations


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭amerden


    just have a play with this to give you an understanding of the DoF etc.

    http://www.canonoutsideofauto.ca/play/


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