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The case for NOT supporting local business

  • 12-09-2020 9:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭


    During times of economic hardship and now during Covid, we hear things like "support local business" and "Buy Irish", etc. It does seem like the right thing to do, but when you think about it, it doesn't make that much sense.


    For example, there are two local stores in my area, a men's clothing shop and a medium to large size department store. They both have been in the town 20+ years, well known places and folks would often say "its been there donkeys years" or "id be sad to see it go" etc. And have names like "Jims Menswear" (Not real name)


    However, with the expansion of the town over the years, chains in shopping centers and the rise of online shopping, the last 10 years or so have not been kind to either store. It's painfully obvious how dated both stores are, overpriced, not keeping up with fashion, dilapidated storefronts etc.


    In the men's store window,no lie, you will see an outfit like a Ben Sherman shirt and boot cut wrangular jeans pinned to a back board with wrangular shoes, like boys used to wear in school, sitting on the floor in front. In the department store you will see, loads of shelves with tacky ornaments and knick knacks. It does have several departments to be fair, garden, home-ware, cloths etc but poor variety in each and quite pricey. And this is just two examples of many similar business'. Every town has them food stores, clothing, hardware etc.


    How does it make sense to shop in these depressing awful places? And why are we set upon with this unfair expectation of helping out a local business that is struggling. If a business cant survive then it should fold, it makes economic sense, its how good economies thrive.




    Thoughts?


«134567

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    This support Irish thing is usually a crock of sh1t.
    Rip off Ireland puts anyone off who may want to buy local.

    One example in my case. I wanted a pair of brand name boots. In the store here they were 160. I got the same pair on Amazon for 85 delivered. I could have just about gotten 2 pairs for what the Irish store wanted.

    An extreme example but there are thousands of similar stories i'm sure.

    I'll always go with the best deal. Got to look after number one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    There's a local home heating oil company, very very close to me, but I've stopped using them.

    I've gone to another supplier who offers a better service.
    They advertise their price online.
    Offer the facility to order online
    And are always cheaper.

    Now the very local company will price match, but why should I have to haggle with then to price match .( They will price match, but never be cheaper)

    It's easier to use the other company.

    It's all about who gives the best value and convenience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Heebie


    unhappys10 wrote:
    In the store here they were 160. I got the same pair on Amazon for 85 delivered. I could have just about gotten 2 pairs for what the Irish store wanted.


    The ones you got are probably knock-offs that cost $10 to make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Shop local my bollox, shop whoever has the best deal. Supporting those shops is supporting price gouging.

    I know, they have families etc etc etc. So do I, I'll spend wherever gives me the best price for the item I want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Heebie wrote: »
    The ones you got are probably knock-offs that cost $10 to make.

    Doubt it, online is just cheaper.

    Even if they were knock offs, Amazon would refund immediately and ban the seller.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Surely if a clothing/ homeware business doesn't move with the times it won't survive? I don't bother buying clothes online after getting sizes and fabrics wrong numerous times. I think it's poor form trying stuff on in shops to get your size n then off to the internet to buy it.

    On other stuff I'd pay I reckon 15%- 20% extra buying local v online- for handiness sake, having it there n then, no messing with couriers n missing the postman etc. Bit of a feel good factor buying local n helps in a small way keep the town alive. Bit of haggling narrows the Gap too! I'm in business myself (not retail) and appreciate the guy on the main street has a higher cost base than the lad operating out of his garage.
    Over 20% and it's online all the way!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    Heebie wrote: »
    The ones you got are probably knock-offs that cost $10 to make.

    No, they weren't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    This support Irish thing is usually a crock of sh1t.
    Rip off Ireland puts anyone off who may want to buy local.

    One example in my case. I wanted a pair of brand name boots. In the store here they were 160. I got the same pair on Amazon for 85 delivered. I could have just about gotten 2 pairs for what the Irish store wanted.

    An extreme example but there are thousands of similar stories i'm sure.

    I'll always go with the best deal. Got to look after number one.

    Are amazon a good place to call on when the local sports club, school, town Hall etc etc are looking to raise some funds
    I some how doubt it.

    Usually people turn to local businesses for support. Great how that works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Shop local my bollox, shop whoever has the best deal. Supporting those shops is supporting price gouging.

    I know, they have families etc etc etc. So do I, I'll spend wherever gives me the best price for the item I want.

    That is a race to the bottom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Don't forget, the "big" stores are also employing local people.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    When all the small local businesses have closed and gone, where are your daughters/sons/wives/husbands going to find work?


    It is already happening and your are blinkered in your views. Why not close down all local businesses now and just order from the multinational warehouses like amazon. Stack it high, sell it cheap. That's if you have a job to earn the money to buy the stuff.


    I know a village in Dublin where a hard german discounter came into a warehouse unit. Wiped out everything around it. Super cheap, employs about 6 people and cost 20 people locally their jobs.


    Watch and see


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Cost would be the biggest factor I imagine. I've a lot of pets and our monthly food bill for them is higher than average. So we have shopped around. Cheapest place to get their food is online (per pet, it works out cheaper to feed them on premium quality stuff that we import rather than buying supermarket stuff).

    I mentioned to our local pet shop before that the food I get online is much cheaper. With the sterling exchange we were paying 45euro for 12 kilo and he was charging 75euro for 10 kilo. He said best he could do was knock a fiver off. I understand, he has staff and overheads etc. But since I'm feeding six rescues, I don't have the luxury of supporting local. Maybe if I just had one! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans


    When all the small local businesses have closed and gone, where are your daughters/sons/wives/husbands going to find work?


    It is already happening and your are blinkered in your views. Why not close down all local businesses now and just order from the multinational warehouses like amazon. Stack it high, sell it cheap. That's if you have a job to earn the money to buy the stuff.


    I know a village in Dublin where a hard german discounter came into a warehouse unit. Wiped out everything around it. Super cheap, employs about 6 people and cost 20 people locally their jobs.


    Watch and see




    But where are daughters/sons/wives/husbands working now?


    I presume your happy with the big multinationals here that supply the latest phones, social media platforms and medicines?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    During times of economic hardship and now during Covid, we hear things like "support local business" and "Buy Irish", etc. It does seem like the right thing to do, but when you think about it, it doesn't make that much sense.


    For example, there are two local stores in my area, a men's clothing shop and a medium to large size department store. They both have been in the town 20+ years, well known places and folks would often say "its been there donkeys years" or "id be sad to see it go" etc. And have names like "Jims Menswear" (Not real name)


    However, with the expansion of the town over the years, chains in shopping centers and the rise of online shopping, the last 10 years or so have not been kind to either store. It's painfully obvious how dated both stores are, overpriced, not keeping up with fashion, dilapidated storefronts etc.


    In the men's store window,no lie, you will see an outfit like a Ben Sherman shirt and boot cut wrangular jeans pinned to a back board with wrangular shoes, like boys used to wear in school, sitting on the floor in front. In the department store you will see, loads of shelves with tacky ornaments and knick knacks. It does have several departments to be fair, garden, home-ware, cloths etc but poor variety in each and quite pricey. And this is just two examples of many similar business'. Every town has them food stores, clothing, hardware etc.


    How does it make sense to shop in these depressing awful places? And why are we set upon with this unfair expectation of helping out a local business that is struggling. If a business cant survive then it should fold, it makes economic sense, its how good economies thrive.




    Thoughts?

    The real problem with these kind of campaigns is that they never work. At best they can put a business on life support, but they never save a business. This is ultimately not enough shoppers will buy into the campaign and will always seek the best value.

    For the businesses you mention above - a buy local campaign will do nothing for them. What they generally need is a ruthless cost cutting exercise as well as significant investment. A huge problem for old retail particularly in small towns is that they are stale - they've been doing the same thing for the last 20-30 years since they started/inherited the business and have had next to zero investment particularly in the last 10 years since the crash.

    Business, be that local, regional or multinational can only survive in a fair market if they are competitive. That means business needs to constantly innovate and needs to be constantly investing. It also needs to recognise when the game is up and not to be chasing losses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans


    Another particularly toxic narrative is that "online shopping is killing the high street". The high street is not entitled to shoppers money.

    And then to guilt trip said shoppers with selfish nonsense like "I employ 10 people" or "My employees have mortgages" is downright contemptuous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    Another particularly toxic narrative is that "online shopping is killing the high street". The high street is not entitled to shoppers money.

    And then to guilt trip said shoppers with selfish nonsense like "I employ 10 people" or "My employees have mortgages" is downright contemptuous.

    True. Wasn't there talk a while ago from retailers who wanted an online shopping levy? Like, we are being told to limit social interactions etc so you would think online shopping would be promoted, but retailers wanted us to face a financial sanction for doing so. Then again that's Ireland - always the stick, never the carrot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Drive the length of Ireland off the motorways - it is full of desolate bleak barren villages and run down town riddled with abandoned and empty units. If you want busy villages with local shops and part time jobs for your families and teenagers and little sweet shops to drop into and pick up a newspaper & have a chat & buy a something for an occasion for yourself or your kids then you should support local businesses. There is more to the economy and creating and sustaIning communities than getting a bargain price. Look at the miners towns in the uk - when the main businesses went everything collapsed and while generations have had to emigrate or live with no hope. There was a famous book in the 60’s written about the decline of rural Irish towns, the loss of the youth to no opportunities or local employment and the exodus of young and families from villages and areas that had nothing left open in them - this is exactly that over again.
    ‘No-one shouted stop’.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭worded


    Local bike shop or an online retailer ?
    For me LBC is better

    Tesco veg or local veg shop
    Local veg shop if I can

    I like to deal with the person running any business like plumber etc

    Local coffee shop or Starbucks ?

    The list goes on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    When all the small local businesses have closed and gone, where are your daughters/sons/wives/husbands going to find work?


    It is already happening and your are blinkered in your views. Why not close down all local businesses now and just order from the multinational warehouses like amazon. Stack it high, sell it cheap. That's if you have a job to earn the money to buy the stuff.


    I know a village in Dublin where a hard german discounter came into a warehouse unit. Wiped out everything around it. Super cheap, employs about 6 people and cost 20 people locally their jobs.


    Watch and see


    And how many people are shopping there?

    Are you shopping there? Be honest.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    The very idea and concept of owning and running a shop is capitalism at its most basic and pure. And the fairest facet of capitalism is that it in theory at least, offers everyone the opportunity to compete in the same market, you simply have to offer a better product or price to succeed.

    In that regard we owe nothing in particular to local retailers. They provide a product or service with the aim of turning a profit. If someone else can offer the same or better product at a better price, they must play the game they signed up to. Compete or die. It's only fair.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    Another particularly toxic narrative is that "online shopping is killing the high street". The high street is not entitled to shoppers money.

    And then to guilt trip said shoppers with selfish nonsense like "I employ 10 people" or "My employees have mortgages" is downright contemptuous.


    Yup, I have a good friend that has a high street shop, it's a 40 minute drive for me and I dont know if he has anything I want, I really want to help him and have bought a few bits to show support, I know there are shops that are ' big' retailers near me that have what I want when I want it, and they employ people I know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I have no problem supporting local until I get to the shop to find they don't stick what I actually want. I've neither the time or patience to go around the town to see if some local shop has it so it's a lot easier to get it online if I can.

    I buy all our groceries locally, newspapers on Saturdays and Sundays from a small local family owned newsagent, coal in the local coop etc but we buy excellent quality pet food online as it's not available in any shop in our town, it's great value and over 10 euro is delivery free.

    Local businesses need to get their act together. They can't just rely on the good will of locals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    There was a famous book in the 60’s written about the decline of rural Irish towns, the loss of the youth to no opportunities or local employment and the exodus of young and families from villages and areas that had nothing left open in them - this is exactly that over again.
    ‘No-one shouted stop’.

    Rural towns have always been black holes with little opportunity.
    If you're not in farming or some local manufacture, then there's not really much point hanging around on the dole or minimum wage.
    The 2008 recession killed off a lot of local businesses and forced a big move to cities. That's only going to happen again.

    Besides, the majority of people don't want a rural life, living in a village that only has a shop, a pub and a church.
    People go to college and realise there's more to life than the few square miles where they grew up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    I'm barely making ends meet as it is, but now I'm expected to shop local and more often than not, pay more? No thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    I'm barely making ends meet as it is, but now I'm expected to shop local and more often than not, pay more? No thanks.


    I'm all for it, not spending more on the same item though because the owner is from the town or went to the same school, I know this sounds wrong, my family first and then I'll do what I can do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    I think when supporting irish its the producer thats important. So if its local butchers or a fruit and veg I don't mind paying a bit over the odds. But the likes of clothes shops, no i wouldn't. On line will remove all the high street costs which are substantial. The new "middle man" is the online retailer. If the goods are irish produced they you are supporting local.
    Where possible its good to support local.


  • Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    Another particularly toxic narrative is that "online shopping is killing the high street". The high street is not entitled to shoppers money.

    And then to guilt trip said shoppers with selfish nonsense like "I employ 10 people" or "My employees have mortgages" is downright contemptuous.


    If you remove local shops you remove jobs and with every job you take away that is another person on the dole and amazon wins. Now i dont know about you but they pay f..k all tax here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    The Belly wrote: »
    If you remove local shops you remove jobs and with every job you take away that is another person on the dole and amazon wins. Now i dont know about you but they pay f..k all tax here.

    How much are you willing to pay a local shop over the Amazon price? Personally I think its madness


  • Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    How much are you willing to pay a local shop over the Amazon price? Personally I think its madness

    Well thats one view. However, if you remove a countries ability to provide for it self it will effect all of us so the extra 1 or 2 is worth it imo. With what has been said its biting of your nose to spite your face. Case in point the good ol USA.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Yes it's good to see empty shops on the town if old people want to go shopping they can walk 5 miles for some bread and milk


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