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Falling apart gives you a reason to build something new.

  • 08-01-2020 12:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭


    So It's 2020.

    I am coming off my worst running year to date which followed a cycle of building from fitness to a certain point and letting life knock it down

    Managed 3 races over the course year - a solid 5 mile Cross Country in January (28.34), local 10k in July (steady consistent 35.21) and a phoned in marathon with 70 miles training over the course of 8 weeks prior (3.09.05)

    Following that the slide continued and the turn of the year saw me probably in the worst shape of my life. Drew a line under the year and starting anew for 2020. While there was a few things going on throughout the year the biggest issue I suffered from was stress and anxiety which has become apparent that I did not handle well and let it consume me. This is not something I cared to admit to anyone (including myself) and put it down to being busy but simple fact was I was shying away from stuff and not keeping on top of things like I should have. This year I am focused on taking care of myself a bit better in that regard and the goals going forward for the year are simple: Restoring myself to 2017/2018 levels of performance and fitness

    There are no target races or anything lined up just gonna take things nice and slow building back

    Week Starting 1/1

    Wed - OFF
    Thursday - 4 easy (7.27 min/m)
    Friday - 4 easy (7.50 min/m)
    Sat - 3.8 easy (8.18 min/m)
    Sun - 4 easy (7.45 min/m)
    Mon - 4.4 easy (7.59 min/m)
    Tues - 3.1 progression (7.19 overall) - 7.35, 7.23, 7.03

    Paces etc don't look terrible here but in reality they don't tell the full story. These got progressively slower as the week went on because fatigue was kicking in first few days. Definitely running harder than I should for easy effort but I was just focused on getting out every day. Not starting on Wed 1st was a tactical choice as I didn't wanna get bogged down in an arbitrary chasing of days to fit the calendar but after that focus is about being consistent this year.

    Monday was the first proper controlled run after the initial few days reintroducing myself to running. Truth be told mileage is low because I am not fit enough to run for longer at the moment and flagging by the end of these

    Tuesday's progression was cut short as was working too hard but in reality this was probably down to underestimating morning commitments. Was running a new coachee through session in the morning and ran it with her so effectively became a double day without being the intention and fatigue got the better of me though having said that did manage about 4-5 miles as part of that session.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭sideswipe


    Best of luck with everything KSU. In terms of running I'm sure your knowledge and history will have you up to speed in no time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    sideswipe wrote: »
    Best of luck with everything KSU. In terms of running I'm sure your knowledge and history will have you up to speed in no time.

    Usually bounce back quick enough with fitness but have found this one a little different presumably because the base as been eroded again and again last year so just have to be patient


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    All the best with the rebuilding. I'm sure once you get into a routine,or the best sort of routine that life/work allows, you'll have yourself in tiptop shape. Happy new year man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Tell the truth, you want your Poster of the Year title back!!! Great to see you back around the place L.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Tell the truth, you want your Poster of the Year title back!!! Great to see you back around the place L.

    His shared Poster of the Year title :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Any reason why you attempted a progression run on day 6 when your paces and energy was sliding the first few days? I'd have thought a good underlying base but you mooted that thought. Just curious?

    A couple of weeks of easy running letting your body adapt as it wants and finding the grá again before work?

    Great to see the new log.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Any reason why you attempted a progression run on day 6 when your paces and energy was sliding the first few days? I'd have thought a good underlying base but you mooted that thought. Just curious?

    A couple of weeks of easy running letting your body adapt as it wants and finding the grá again before work?

    Great to see the new log.

    Simple answer - Psychological

    At the moment trying to establish patterns of training and getting used to getting back out and pushing when the mood doesn't suit. I got into a habit of justifying laziness/stress trumping actually getting out and just sucking it up to an extent.

    The other side of it is trying to establish Routine i.e 2 sessions a week. Overall the session itself was not overly hard I just underestimated fatigue from the morning endeavours and a fairly blustery evening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    His shared Poster of the Year title :D
    OOnegative wrote: »
    Tell the truth, you want your Poster of the Year title back!!! Great to see you back around the place L.

    Thats what I meant about getting back to 2017/2018. Its all about the glory to hell with the running :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    It's great to see you back here, i wish you the best of luck with your return to fitness and former glory (as joint Poster of the Year that is :P)

    While you're struggling to come to terms with running at a different level (for now!) remember you're in the good company of our great Sonia


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    You should read this guys blog - not too sure where he went to, but a bit of a legend. Top, Top log though.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60659898&postcount=1


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  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    You should read this guys blog - not too sure where he went to, but a bit of a legend. Top, Top log though.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60659898&postcount=1

    1st section of that is a warning of what not to do regards overtraining and a lesson that there is no talking to young adults who think they know everything (as opposed to the older fart who still thinks he knows everything before you here)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Annie get your Run


    You should read this guys blog - not too sure where he went to, but a bit of a legend. Top, Top log though.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60659898&postcount=1


    20! Whippersnapper :D


    On a slightly more serious note, watch those stress levels, we could swap places and I can coach you on managing that...!



    I understand your logic of not wanting to be 'lazy' and pushing yourself out the door but there's a fine line between not being lazy and pushing too hard too, if you're stressed in other areas of your life and you push your training on top of that stress, the results can be not so nice, so just keep one eye on how you are feeling, and whether it's your body or your mind that's sending you signals. Edit to say you know all that but I'm just saying :).



    Good to see you back!


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    20! Whippersnapper :D

    On a slightly more serious note, watch those stress levels, we could swap places and I can coach you on managing that...!

    I understand your logic of not wanting to be 'lazy' and pushing yourself out the door but there's a fine line between not being lazy and pushing too hard too, if you're stressed in other areas of your life and you push your training on top of that stress, the results can be not so nice, so just keep one eye on how you are feeling, and whether it's your body or your mind that's sending you signals. Edit to say you know all that but I'm just saying :).

    Good to see you back!

    Completely agree when I said about pushing myself it is not so much in the intensity side of things but rather just getting out the door. I think the lack of running was compounding the stress as it had always been my outlet

    Once I am out the door the body is certainly dictating the runs (as easy needed)


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Week Starting 8/1

    Wed - OFF
    Thursday - 5 easy (7.56 min/m)
    Friday - 5 incl 4 progression (7.48, 7.32, 7.11, 6.45)
    Sat - OFF
    Sun - OFF
    Mon AM - 4 easy (8.02 min/m) - PM - 5.3 easy (8.10 min/m)
    Tues AM - 6 easy (8.27 min/m) - PM - 6 easy incl 6x20 sec strides (7.55 min/m)

    Weekly Mileage progression
    Week 1 - 23.3
    Week 2 - 31.4

    Still a bit of 2 steps forward and 1 step back but it was progress and definitely starting to feel like I have turned a corner with no longer feeling like the runs are a drag beyond 30 min.

    Progression run went better than planned and surprised to see sub 7 by the end though did have a strong wind on my back for large chunks of this one. pulled it back to a mile cooldown at the end though just to ensure I wasn't overcooking things.

    Monday and as if a flip switched it was part of the norm for the day. Diet has improved as well so helping with being more energetic.

    A few more weeks of easy and the odd progression run and strides and should be up to bring sessions back in


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Good to see you back L. take it handy and you will be flying again in no time.

    I hear ya on the running helping stress levels, but I find its a fine line to get the balance when not being able to run. It will take time and perseverance.

    Remember the importance of accepting the level you are at now and going with that level. The fitness will return as the body & mind adapts again.

    Happy New Year


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Younganne wrote: »

    Remember the importance of accepting the level you are at now and going with that level. The fitness will return as the body & mind adapts again.

    Happy New Year

    You to A.

    Definitely at a point now where I am being very patient and not worrying about getting in shape. Probably a tendency to be taking it too handy at the moment but I think this will stand to me and allow me to bank a bit of training. Not viewing training as trying to attain perfect training as part of a training block but rather just focus on making small improvements week on week till I am fit enough to tackle something specific.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Wed - 7 mile progression - 7.14 min/m average
    Thursday - 5.3 easy (7.50 min/m)
    Friday - 2 mile tempo (4) 6x20s hills (60)
    Sat - OFF
    Sun - 10.2 easy (7.47 min/m)

    Capping off 50 miles in a calendar week and my first 6 day week since July. Progress.

    Progression run went well felt quite controlled win on back for a number of miles and made a few favorable turns with regards shelter and tailwinds but overall happy with it and seeing 3 sub 7's without really forcing things. Progression runs always seem to come a bit easier to me so they are great for a bit of a confidence booster perfect for where I am right now.

    Friday and tempo miles in around Marathon effort nothing too strenuous just something to put a bit of fatigue into the legs followed by some light turnover work. Had planned a little longer hills initially but ran out of hill :P

    Long run today and first time over the hour since the comeback. Met up with a number of lads from the club who were running longer and though the temptation was there to continue on with them I had a bit more sense.

    In a good place currently with regards to where I am with my training and it doesn't feel too demanding or taxing while also seeing plenty of area's to build on over the coming weeks before getting into the nitty gritty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Mon AM 6.6 easy (7.52 min/m) PM 3.9 easy (7.46 min/m)
    Tues 7 mile Progression - 7.03 min/m average pace
    Wed 7 easy (7.48 min/m)
    Thurs 7.5 easy (8.03 min/m)

    Weekly Mileage progression
    Week 1 - 23.3
    Week 2 - 31.4
    Week 3 - 46.1

    Slow and steady wins the race. A lot more easy stuff but definitely feeling aerobically stronger. Progression run showed a bit of improvement though was alot less windy so probably accounts for a bit of it though all the. Getting to the stage where I am conciously pulling back the miles to not make too big a jump as the goal is still just to have training ingrained with every day routine without it being a mental drain just yet. Aim is to get fit slowly rather than ramp up too quick and not sustaining it.

    Spotted AMK floating around my neck of the woods this week so reached out to catch up for a run on Thursday, Have managed to tick off my monthly goal of running with company atleast 3 times a week, Amazing how it can help break things up,


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Friday OFF

    Scuppered as the little lad decided to wake around 10pm (something he hasn't done in a few months so kicked off before I got out and wasn't going back into his cot.

    Saturday 2 tempo (3) 2x1 T (90) 6x20s hills (60)

    Splits: 6.49, 6.49, 6.27, 6.29, - hills (hard) 4.50-5.40

    I think sometimes overlook what is in front of us. I could have went further afield but had everything I needed right on my doorstep and the local estate is a great little one for sessions. A fairly flat 1 mile loop and a decent hill all within the confines of a recovery segment.

    The aim of this session was to build on last weeks with 2 Threshold reps while there is a bit of volume and pace coming into the sessions the intensity is still not there and session is designed to be running within myself. Started off with the 2 mile around MP effort. This felt it (in a good way) as realistically this felt like the 1st two miles of a marathon rather than the last two which was the aim. finished up and a decent recovery. Next was threshold reps and felt not quite hard but on the upper end of comfortable. The short recovery between was perfect.

    Finished these up and off to hill. Not quite as steep as last week but a decent gradual incline all the same - perfect for a bit of turnover work which is what I want at the moment i.e top and tailing the training (building volume and high end aerobic work as well as short turnover work) as the weeks progress (and the fitness) the aim will be to bring the emphasis to a more narrow range (i.e working towards the higher intensity 10k-HM work) but for now everything continues to feel somewhat controlled and training within myself building the base.

    Sunday - 10.5 miles (80 min) easy (7.52 min/m)

    2nd later night run and truth be told I had to bargain with myself to get out. I was tired from a couple of late nights so it took me about 20 min to actually get out the door. Once I got out I started to get into it though. Effort felt fine though wind was a nightmare and dreaded coming back into it. Finished up the run roughly same distance as last week. Didn't feel as easy without company but gonna get those sort of days. The main thing is that it isn't every run that feels like that and with being off next week should be able to get out with some of the lads for company.

    Another 50 mile calendar week though Wed-Wed should see an increase. Continues to go in right direction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Mon OFF

    A few things at home meant that I juggled off day (which has become a staple in the plan so far not by design but will keep in place for now while mileage is not being chased)

    Tues
    AM 6.7 easy (7.56 min/m)
    PM 6.8 moderate w/ 4x20 sec strides (7.20 min/m)

    Run mutes in and out. Absolutely baltic in the morning. Felt good on the way home and had a bit of pep in the step so went with it (seeing as I was running a little late as well)


    Wed 7 mile progression (6.50 min/m average)

    3rd week in a row for this one. not the greatest of sleep last few days (little lads sleep patterns been off last few days ) so feeling a bit tired. 1st mile a little quicker than perhaps should have been, mile two and wasn't feeling amazing. Mile 3 and I really was not feeling it and thoughts came on about canning the run. After that though it was smooth sailing and was cruising. Even come the last mile I felt like I was holding back a gear. First time since I been back running hit a bad patch and managed to come through so happy with it and strength is coming back week by week. Will be another two weeks roughly of base before bringing in sessions.

    Mile Splits per progression run

    Week 1|8.19||7.30||7.23||7.05||6.54||6.50||6.34
    Week 2|7.51||7.25||7.15||6.57||6.45||6.37||6.31
    Week 3|7.30||7.07||6.54||6.47||6.40||6.31||6.14


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    I really must dip into the training logs thread more often. Completely missed this til now. Welcome back! Yeah stress is a m*therf*cker when it comes to training. I learned the hard way like yourself. Awareness of it is the biggest thing.

    If you're looking for some tips feel free to take a look at my log. Some great training going on in there. You might recognise a lot of the sessions ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    All the best with your training. Looking forward to see you progress


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    I really must dip into the training logs thread more often. Completely missed this til now. Welcome back! Yeah stress is a m*therf*cker when it comes to training. I learned the hard way like yourself. Awareness of it is the biggest thing.

    If you're looking for some tips feel free to take a look at my log. Some great training going on in there. You might recognise a lot of the sessions ;)

    Haha notice that alright bringing back memories for sure :p

    Yeah on the stress side of things I probably needed to just take a step back at times but I think I have a tendency to be all or nothing so found it very hard to dial back certain things at times and prioritising things better.

    A working progress but definitely getting there

    All the best with your training. Looking forward to see you progress

    Might need a bit of patience in this log for a while I imagine. I think last year I was putting targets in to try and stoke the fire but I was stressing hitting certain progression of fitness in order to match with these goals something which again stoked the all or nothing nature and sadly went to nothing when i had a set back.

    This time around I am being a bit more patient and building up slower building a foundation of fitness to work from. Probably won't be too much racing the next 2-3 months but I want to come into the summer in good nick and go from there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Thurs 6.2 miles easy (7.44 min/m)

    Handy one on lunch break around UCD. Great to see serious development going on with the new track between that and a new Gym in work I am hoping will have all I need before long :p

    Fri OFF

    The first unscheduled missed day in a while. For one reason or another just knew I wouldn't get out without it having a major impact on things overall so bit the bullet on this one. At this stage of training better to pick my battles for when I truly get into the thick of things


    Sat 6x20 sec hills (60s), (3 min), 3 mile MP, (3 min) 2x1 mile Threshold (90 sec)

    Splits (4.50-5.10) - (6.48, 6.47, 6.44) - (6.15, 6.14)

    Been going through a good debate on speed sequencing in sessions and points for putting speed first and speed last. While I am normally a fan of the latter I said I would give it a try because while I am not fully sold on the logic behind it the argument did have bits of merit so I thought why not try meet somewhere in the middle and start to rotate the sequence.

    Definitely woke the legs up and the first mile on the MP tempo I really had to reign in. Hadn't been feeling great all day but session was manageable. Bit of heaviness in the legs by the end as was a decent bit of volume to the session though all in all still not digging to the well on these and happy to just feel out a controlled effort. I know paces will level off soon but happy with how its going so far.

    Sunday 12 miles easy (7.46 min/m)

    Got out at a reasonable time for once of a weekend. Moved the run up to 90 min as opposed to the 80 the last few weeks. Windy as hell as seems to have been half of Jan but was in my face on way out and I know would be on my back on the way home. Definitely a stronger run than other weeks either a sign of progress or I need to run at a reasonable hour more often but job done.

    Capped off the week with 47 miles a little shy of what had been previously but considering I missed an extra day not terrible. Hoping to make a conscious to try and get out every day this month (dunno how feasible will be with an American trip)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    KSU wrote: »

    Sat 6x20 sec hills (60s), (3 min), 3 mile MP, (3 min) 2x1 mile Threshold (90 sec)

    Splits (4.50-5.10) - (6.48, 6.47, 6.44) - (6.15, 6.14)

    Been going through a good debate on speed sequencing in sessions and points for putting speed first and speed last. While I am normally a fan of the latter I said I would give it a try because while I am not fully sold on the logic behind it the argument did have bits of merit so I thought why not try meet somewhere in the middle and start to rotate the sequence.

    Jonathan Marcus again, is it!!

    He was on Final Surge Podcast talking about this very topic - you'd love it (the lingo), but it bored me to tears as it wasn't concise and in digestible bite sized chunks for the non initiated like me :) - but he seemed to be making a decent argument that 'Speed' at the end a session is useless and there is no real evidence that it recruits fibers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Jonathan Marcus again, is it!!

    He was on Final Surge Podcast talking about this very topic - you'd love it (the lingo), but it bored me to tears as it wasn't concise and in digestible bite sized chunks for the non initiated like me :) - but he seemed to be making a decent argument that 'Speed' at the end a session is useless and there is no real evidence that it recruits fibers.

    :p

    Been following the debates with him and Magness for a while which took me down some very dark holes of literature mind you like yourself alot of it went over my head to an extent. I would very much fall under the Steve Magness way of thinking on it but I am also not an amazing 5k runner so willing to hedge my bets to prove I am wrong :D

    For me the speed at the end of the session (albeit not the max velocity CNS stuff) is a form correction technique just as much as a speed development I feel for endurance athletes this fatigue combating approach has alot of merit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Mon 7 miles easy (7.52 min/m)

    Just a handy on on lunchbreak. Been a better year in terms of actually managing to get away from the desk at work meaning able to squeeze in runs of decent length without putting pressure on getting out after. Definitely helped the life/running balance a bit this year so gonna make sure to try and use this alot more as long as things stay alright in work.

    Tuesday 7 mile progression + 5x15 sec strides

    Another week, another progression run. not too much to be said about this except it went in the right direction. Paces hovering in around the 6 min mark by the end which is about where I want to be by the end of base phase on these to be honest. One more progression run next week will see the end of the base phase overall happy with these as they are acting as a tempo at this stage of training as I don't have the miles in the legs to do a straight out 7 mile tempo at this stage so its a good compromise between volume and intensity.

    Decided to add my strides to this as well as trying to keep this up 2-3 times a week just for turnover to complement all the lower intensity miles.

    Week 1|8.19||7.30||7.23||7.05||6.54||6.50||6.34
    Week 2|7.51||7.25||7.15||6.57||6.45||6.37||6.31
    Week 3|7.30||7.07||6.54||6.47||6.40||6.31||6.14
    Week 4|7.21||6.58||6.45||6.34||6.22||6.12||6.02[/QUOTE]


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Would it be right to say you've structured your base with mainly two sessions, one long and the rest easy, with the two sessions being a progression run and the other a mix of tempo/hills/some threshold recently?

    I'm wondering if I've jumped into CV/10k stuff a little too soon and should have spent longer hovering around tempo/aerobic/some hill work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Would it be right to say you've structured your base with mainly two sessions, one long and the rest easy, with the two sessions being a progression run and the other a mix of tempo/hills/some threshold recently?

    I'm wondering if I've jumped into CV/10k stuff a little too soon and should have spent longer hovering around tempo/aerobic/some hill work.

    In a nutshell yes that is the format

    Progression runs tend to be my bread and butter I just find them one of the easier types of sessions. At this stage of my training as well they have a lot of merit. The are effort based the aim is always to start easy and finish up at HM effort. There is also the built in safety mechanism in that I don’t overcook them because my rule is that every mile must be quicker than the last so jumps are controlled as well as the confidence that the type of runs brings. As mentioned as well above I find that it’s a good way to act as a tempo with a bit more volume as get a few miles in before hitting into the tempo efforts which at early stages of training I think helps.

    With regards the other session yes it is a very light session in so far as the recoveries go it’s simply a way of touching on variety of paces without being too taxing while still getting decent volume.

    In terms of this as a base I am not aiming to be in race shape till mid summer so it gives me a bit of luxury in being patient so this extended block is to undo slot of the lost fitness from last year as well as reestablishing habits so I wanna spend an extended bit of time running comfortably before I start asking to dig in.i know myself that would lead to the similar boom bust format that happened last year so trying to learn from my mistakes.

    From a physical perspective though wouldn’t worry about 10k paces it’s one of those great intensity’s which can be used year round as Tom Schwartz training (Tinman) proves. I know question probably comes from the Lydiard article but truth be told that more refers to quicker than 5k intensities as long as you are not running too long or with too short recovery 10k effort is a fairly safe training intensity. Tempo work should be a key part of training at this stage but 10k will compliment it well


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    KSU wrote:
    From a physical perspective though wouldn’t worry about 10k paces it’s one of those great intensity’s which can be used year round as Tom Schwartz training (Tinman) proves. I know question probably comes from the Lydiard article but truth be told that more refers to quicker than 5k intensities as long as you are not running too long or with too short recovery 10k effort is a fairly safe training intensity. Tempo work should be a key part of training at this stage but 10k will compliment it well

    No to be honest it's nothing to do with the article. More to do with horsing around with the little one last week and feeling a twinge in the same area in the hip plus general fatigue from last week's training has me questioning if even my "conservative" approach was still a little on the aggressive side for this time of year. Also made me realise how close to the edge I still am in terms of getting reinjured so wondered if spending more time away from the 10k pace stuff for a while yet might be a better approach. Similar to yourself I'm kinda targeting summer timeframe to be in decent 10k shape.

    Sorry for the hijack


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