How your farm animals are raised

gozunda · 19-06-2018 1:58am

klopparama wrote: »

Jesus this is heartbreaking.

How your farm animals are raised

...

Somewhat concerning that at the end of video allegedly filmed in Mexico the presenter actively promotes - quote
"Delicious and cruelty free plant based alternatives".
Feels like a very bad product placement for the competing 'plant based alternatives' industry tbh ...

Call me just a little bit sceptical but a quick search throws up the chemical company Du Pont looking to develop their plant based foods in Mexicio ....

https://www.foodnavigator-latam.com/Article/2017/10/09/Economic-challenges-slow-Mexico-s-adoption-of-new-trends

Yup big business is your friend...

[Deleted User] · 19-06-2018 2:30am

Yeah. It’s all about humans and animals. Not about nationalities.

Don’t be offended if I don’t reply.

Eamonn8448 · 19-06-2018 2:33am

gozunda wrote: »

Ok Mexico this time ...

Somewhat concerning that the end of video actively promotes
"Delicious and cruelty free plant based alternatives".
Feels like a very bad product placement for the competing 'plant based alternatives' industry tbh ...

they are never going to learn - noble ideas just not practical, i worked for a day in an abattoir when i was 19, didnt like it because one minute your trying to do your best on a farm to look after them and the next your watching a bunch of townie **** laughing to try and save face, never seen any cruelty there infact was very controlled got given out to about wearing a watch over hygiene , those animals are killed quick and clean ive been there and seen it and may i add seen many a farmer walk up the killing line to make sure they are ok - those animals never suffered unlike the rabbits i half hit and screamed with a shotgun - do i feel guilty yeah but you lot tell me how its done better ?
This man who i quoted knows the truth so why cant you ?

lolo62 · 19-06-2018 4:02am

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

they are never going to learn - noble ideas just not practical, i worked for a day in an abattoir when i was 19, didnt like it because one minute your trying to do your best on a farm to look after them and the next your watching a bunch of townie **** laughing to try and save face, never seen any cruelty there infact was very controlled got given out to about wearing a watch over hygiene , those animals are killed quick and clean ive been there and seen it and may i add seen many a farmer walk up the killing line to make sure they are ok - those animals never suffered unlike the rabbits i half hit and screamed with a shotgun - do i feel guilty yeah but you lot tell me how its done better ?
This man who i quoted knows the truth so why cant you ?

I'm sure if you directed some of the energy you're putting into this thread, instead into researching alternative ways to deal with your rabbit problem, besides half hitting them with your shotgun, you could come up with something. But it seems you find antagonising vegans about their concerns for despicable animal cruelty that happens consistently on farms (not all farms, no one is saying all farmers are bad), way more worthy of your time.

Lady Haywire · 20-06-2018 12:21am

klopparama wrote: »

Jesus this is heartbreaking.

https://youtu.be/CsgZr2v4VGo

Riiight. Firstly this is Mexico, not Ireland.

Yes a cow is put incalf, she's generally AI'd for various reasons but it is considered much safer than a bull and is also done in racehorses, dogs and animals in zoos. I think it's French bulldogs that can't get pregnant or give birth naturally?
No calf is sent to the slaughterhouse at a few days old. Plus females who are twin to male calves are not fertile so are not kept on for milk production. These are basic things to know so little miss chatty there on the video isn't much into her cattle. Plus they do not suffer for weeks after ffs. I've had cows try to kill a twin calf cause they don't know what it is. Calves roar after they are born just like human babies. It's not because they're ripped away form the cows.

Tail docking is illegal here. As is dehorning without anesthetic.
Magnets being put down their throat is also uncommon, it's literally like yourself swallowing a large table, the only reason the metal rod is used is to put it to the back of the throat so it's not spat out. Also, that could very well be a vitamin bolus either. I've no way of knowing and wouldn't believe what's being spoken anyway.
Any milk-producing mammal can get mastitis, it's not solely because they're 'genetically chosen for large milk production'. I've had plenty of cows here get it and we leave the calves on the cows. None of the cows in that video have mastitis, their udders are hanging because they're older cows and just like women (shock-horror!) they get a bit saggy with age.

One point i will agree on that video is the lack of veterinary care I see. It's senseless and cruel.

[Deleted User] · 20-06-2018 1:23am

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Riiight. Firstly this is Mexico, not Ireland.

Yes a cow is put incalf, she's generally AI'd for various reasons but it is considered much safer than a bull and is also done in racehorses, dogs and animals in zoos. I think it's French bulldogs that can't get pregnant or give birth naturally?
No calf is sent to the slaughterhouse at a few days old. Plus females who are twin to male calves are not fertile so are not kept on for milk production. These are basic things to know so little miss chatty there on the video isn't much into her cattle. Plus they do not suffer for weeks after ffs. I've had cows try to kill a twin calf cause they don't know what it is. Calves roar after they are born just like human babies. It's not because they're ripped away form the cows.

Tail docking is illegal here. As is dehorning without anesthetic.
Magnets being put down their throat is also uncommon, it's literally like yourself swallowing a large table, the only reason the metal rod is used is to put it to the back of the throat so it's not spat out. Also, that could very well be a vitamin bolus either. I've no way of knowing and wouldn't believe what's being spoken anyway.
Any milk-producing mammal can get mastitis, it's not solely because they're 'genetically chosen for large milk production'. I've had plenty of cows here get it and we leave the calves on the cows. None of the cows in that video have mastitis, their udders are hanging because they're older cows and just like women (shock-horror!) they get a bit saggy with age.

One point i will agree on that video is the lack of veterinary care I see. It's senseless and cruel.

The footage taken is fallout of the meat and dairy industry existing and some people are now thinking it’s not necessary anymore.

[Deleted User] · 20-06-2018 1:29am

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

[Deleted User] · 20-06-2018 1:31am

https://youtu.be/xcR76gERgRk

More reasons to stop eating milk and dairy and cut down on animals suffering unnecessarily.

Lady Haywire · 20-06-2018 2:21am

klopparama wrote: »

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

I never said the footage wasn't real? I stated it was in Mexico which does have more lax standards of care towards animals. You just failed to mention that in your post so thought I'd point it out.
I'm not saying some of it doesn't happen here but a good part of what's in that video is standard practice if a bit rough with a syrupy voice saying it's wrong. And yes it does matter where it's happening because farmers here and in other parts of the world have wild variations on welfare and standards. So it's not fair for Joe down the road to be accused of cruelty to his cows when he's doing nothing wrong except milking them twice a day.
Or maybe you're taking a stand against the world so you're showing us what happens over there and we can tell you what's wrong with the video, is that it? Would it not be better to see what's being done correctly in countries with high welfare standards and implement it in countries where standards are low. Because that would probably get a lot more support from all sides.
Though maybe that's too sensible and all the dear ickle cows must be freed from their captors.

And I'm not bringing racism, sexism or homophobia into it because I've yet to see a racist, sexist or homophobic farm animal. But if you do find one please let me know, think of the hits on YouTube!

Mooooo · 20-06-2018 6:52am

klopparama wrote: »

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

By the same token there have been cases around the world of babies dying due to the parents insisting on a vegan diet from birth. One in Holland or Belgium I think where the parents owned a vegan shop. The child died at a few months old at s lower weight than it's birth weight so appears to have been slowly starved to death. That is one of a few bad cases. Do we tar all vegans or vegan parents because of that case? No we don't. Do we say veganism shouldn't exist because of those bad cases? No we don't. Yet you apply the opposite criteria to farming

_Brian · 20-06-2018 7:27am

klopparama wrote: »

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs

If I’ve linked correctly I think this is in Ireland.

But you can see by the fact that this monster was jailed that Irish society and farmers as a whole won’t stand for this sort of treatment of animals.

I’ve worked on farms and with farmers near all my life and can be sure that the vast, vast majority of farmers have the highest standards for their animals.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-06-2018 12:41pm

If it doesn't matter where something is happening from a moral perspective (and I agree it doesn't) then why not mention where it happens? You bring up other injustices and how we can care about them on a global level, but what would you think of a thread titled "what is happening to your gay people" and it was a load of videos from Uganda and Russia?

The phrasing of the thread title is misleading, maybe deliberately so, maybe not. If you have right on your side, you shouldn't need to do that.

ganmo · 20-06-2018 3:27pm

_Brian wrote: »

But you can see by the fact that this monster was jailed that Irish society and farmers as a whole won’t stand for this sort of treatment of animals.

I’ve worked on farms and with farmers near all my life and can be sure that the vast, vast majority of farmers have the highest standards for their animals.

More recently there was a pig farmer who was brought to the WRC because he fired an employee for the cruelty they showed towards the animals

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/worker-awarded-30k-over-pig-farm-dismissal-455585.html

_Brian · 20-06-2018 6:53pm

As someone who farms cattle, keeps pigs for our own table and chickens for eggs I welcome every single prosecution regarding the mistreatment of animals.

I appreciate that farming of animals isn’t accepted among many here but everyone gets to have their position. I was brought up to respect farmed animals and provide them with nothing short of the best possible feed and conditions. I teach my own kids the very same values. My experience is that these are the values among the vast majority of farmers and the rest need a bright light shon on them.

I’m sickened by the mistreatment videos that are taken but they serve a very important purpose. Equally they should in no way be promoted as standard practice among the farming community.

In the same way that not all vegans/vegitarians are extremists, not all farmers are monsters and not all animals are mistreated.

lolo62 · 20-06-2018 7:14pm

_Brian wrote: »

As someone who farms cattle, keeps pigs for our own table and chickens for eggs I welcome every single prosecution regarding the mistreatment of animals.

I appreciate that farming of animals isn’t accepted among many but everyone gets to have their position. I was brought up to respect farmed animals and provide them with nothing short of the best possible feed and conditions. I teach my own kids the very same values. My experience is that these are the values among the vast majority of farmers and the rest need a bright light shin on them.

I’m sickened by the mistreatment videos that are taken but they serve a very important purpose. Equally they should in no way be promoted as standard practice among the farming community.

In the same way that not all vegans/vegitarians are extremists, not all farmers are monsters and not all animals are mistreated.

Well said. Thank you

[Deleted User] · 24-06-2018 11:37pm

Large quantities of your rashers, sausages and ham are not Irish even if the labelling says otherwise.

This from the makers of Denny, Galtee and roscrea -

"We cannot guarantee on a 52-week year basis that all our pigmeat is Irish and the reason is serious fluctuation of demand in the market," he said.

"That means we cannot always source the particular muscle specification and cut for a product in Ireland, but it would be impossible to alter packaging at short notice to reflect that," he added.

He said Kerry Foods was the biggest purchaser of Irish pigmeat in the country, and all its labelling claims such as "the taste the nation loves" were true.

Full article here -

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/large-amount-of-pork-eaten-here-imported-despite-full-irish-image-26730657.html

[Deleted User] · 24-06-2018 11:52pm

Seems fair to say, from what I’ve read, that about 50% of the pork consumed in Ireland is imported.

The country or origin is unknown.

Tar.Aldarion · 25-06-2018 12:34am

tatranska post deleted, post seriously and on topic.

Mooooo · 25-06-2018 1:43pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is one thing I thought about for a bit.
Since these animals where deliberately bred by humans for one purpose only, they serve no natural purpose. Keeping them for the sake of it is pointless.
Animals in the wild have to be protected, because they serve a purpose in nature, whilst farm animals are a drain on nature. They consume water, food, heat and electricity, areas of nature have to be destroyed to make pastures for them and hundreds of tons of slurry are being dumped on the land.
Not just Ireland, but globally. To think that this doesn't have a massive ecological impact would be naive.

Use the same type of analysis and look into crop production and it's requirements. It's a balance of both that's needed

[Deleted User] · 25-06-2018 1:58pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Use the same type of analysis and look into crop production and it's requirements. It's a balance of both that's needed

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Tar.Aldarion · 25-06-2018 2:14pm

Removed personal comment, no more of that.

Mooooo · 25-06-2018 2:23pm

klopparama wrote: »

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Whatever about the clown comment, a lot of the grain that goes to cattle is not food grade, or is sent for feed once the oil is removed for people's use. In Ireland it is difficult to harvest grain in the correct conditions to reach food grade. Land for crops also needs organic matter to allow the soil to have enough life in it to grow crops, which can be provided by livestock, that's what I was talking about a balance. Id suggest you put as much effort in to researching all food production at farm level, crops,veg and livestock and perhaps you may learn something. Picking one part and getting outraged while ignoring everything else is pointless enough.
I've made this point before but the industry which should have the spotlight shine on it is the secondary and tertiary ones, the processors, and the supermarkets. These are the crowds that are making huge profits by forcing down the price paid to farmers and still taking advantage of consumers. As I said, buy Irish and free range.

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-06-2018 2:39pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Use the same type of analysis and look into crop production and it's requirements. It's a balance of both that's needed

I don't think farm animals are going to go away anytime soon, just musing.
What I think is needed is that people reassess their meat intake, people expect to eat meat daily, or even several times daily. Full Irish, meat-packed sandwich for lunch and the big roast for dinner. Every day.
This had led to extremely intense farming (not that much in Ireland maybe) and environmental issues.
On top of that people expect meat to be very cheap, take chickens for example.
A chicken in the supermarket will cost about €5 or less.
For that chicken to be sold at a profit, how much care, attention and thought has gone into rearing that chicken? About €3.50 worth I guess.
Whatever about going veggie, what should be addressed is farming on an industrial megascale like for example in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/18/rise-of-mega-farms-how-the-us-model-of-intensive-farming-is-invading-the-world

The veggie movement may be a backlash at this sort of monster, hyper industrialised rearing of animals as nothing else but an industrial product.
Not only from an animal welfare point of view, but also for human health, because there are indications that super-bugs resistent to antibiotics exist because farm animals are given antbibiotics on a large scale, completely unconnected to an actual need for them: (from the article above)

Emma Slawinski, director of campaigns at Compassion in World Farming, said the problems of mega farms around the world included over-medication, where animals are given antibiotics whether they are needed or not. “Factory-farmed animals are regularly given antibiotics in their feed or water, because of the higher risk of disease when large numbers of animals are kept in these overcrowded conditions. There is strong evidence that this overuse of antibiotics in intensive farming is contributing to antibiotic resistance in human medicine. If animals cannot remain healthy within the conditions in which they are placed, then it is time to take a closer look at our farming systems.”

I think regarding meat as an industrial product that can just be produced on a gigantic scale with zero consequences for people and the environment was a mistake.
Before you think I am a hard-core Level 8 Vegan, I do eat meat. In fact I love it. All variations of it. And fish.

But maybe it's gone a little nuts lately.

Mooooo · 25-06-2018 2:50pm

As I've said before, the standards within the EU are way higher than anywhere else in the world esp when it comes to antibiotics etc. Animals should be treated well, not only because it's the right thing to do but because the perform better when they are. I agree food shouldn't be seen as cheap but this is a byproduct of the system brought in after the world war in Europe and as economies became more urban in the West it was used by supermarkets and processors to get people in the door and buy other things while they are there. As time has gone on the return in terms of income to the farm has diminished and in order to raise a family farmers have either left the land or gotten bigger in scale. This is what has lead to these extremely large scale farms in the US and elsewhere. That won't happen here as Ireland is grass based for the most part and we don't have vast areas with no population.

Lady Haywire · 25-06-2018 2:56pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What I think is needed is that people reassess their meat intake, people expect to eat meat daily, or even several times daily. Full Irish, meat-packed sandwich for lunch and the big roast for dinner. Every day.

I think regarding meat as an industrial product that can just be produced on a gigantic scale with zero consequences for people and the environment was a mistake.

I'm just going to quote those parts of your post because I agree entirely with them. Personally i think a lot of people these days grow up without enough association with it. If you farm it or grow it, you'll have much more respect for the work that's gone into it and savour it more. Not going into Iceland, buying your frozen doner kebab meat and blasting it in the microwave.

Ireland wouldn't be usual to the bigger mass produced beef in some countries, our antibiotic use would be curtailed and instead of being fed to animals to ward off infection, we would treat animals infected instead. It's very easy these days to actually pick Irish beef, hell any decent butcher can probably give you the tag number and you can look up the history yourself if you were so inclined!

Ultimanemo · 25-06-2018 5:02pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

This is a picture of the paper:

On the same page they are offering a free ice-cream sandwich which is probably made from milk coming from similar farms

gozunda · 26-06-2018 12:28am

Ultimanemo wrote: »

On the same page they are offering a free ice-cream sandwich which is probably made from milk coming from similar farms

Read the article. It's about hauliers who allegedly failing to make rest stops on the continent whilst transporting calves from Ireland.

Of course the story goes completly off track and makes a complete hairy gonads of the issue using sensationalist language 'baby calves' 'lowing' etc etc

The calves in question are reared for veal in the Netherlands and are killed at approx. 9 months. So it's unlikely there there would be milk produced on these type of farms.

From the ingredient list - it would appear that skimmed milk is fairly far down the list of ingredients

Chocolate Flavoured Sandwich Biscuit (48%) (WheatFlour, Sugar, Palm Oil, Fat Reduced Cocoa Powder, Water, Glucose Syrup, Salt, Raising Agent (Sodium Bicarbonate), Flavouring), Concentrated Skimmed Milk, Sugar, Crushed Biscuit Pieces with a Vanilla Flavour Filling (6%) (Wheat Flour, Sugar, Vegetable Oils (Palm, Palm Kernel), Fat Reduced Cocoa Powder, Glucose-Fructose Syrup, Wheat Starch, Raising Agents (Potassium, Ammonium and Sodium Hydrogen Carbonates), Salt, Emulsifiers (Soya and Sunflower Lecithin), Flavouring), Coconut Oil, Cream (from Milk), Glucose Syrup, Lactose (from Milk) and Milk Proteins, Dried Skimmed Milk, Dextrose, Emulsifier (E471), Stabilisers (E410, E412), Flavouring

The 'ice cream sandwich' appears to be made under licence in the UK ...

gozunda · 26-06-2018 12:47am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't think farm animals are going to go away anytime soon, just musing. What I think is needed is that people reassess their meat intake, people expect to eat meat daily, or even several times daily. Full Irish, meat-packed sandwich for lunch and the big roast for dinner. Every day.
This had led to extremely intense farming (not that much in Ireland maybe) and environmental issues.On top of that people expect meat to be very cheap, take chickens for example.
A chicken in the supermarket will cost about €5 or less. For that chicken to be sold at a profit, how much care, attention and thought has gone into rearing that chicken? About €3.50 worth I guess. Whatever about going veggie, what should be addressed is farming on an industrial megascale like for example in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/18/rise-of-mega-farms-how-the-us-model-of-intensive-farming-is-invading-the-world

The veggie movement may be a backlash at this sort of monster, hyper industrialised rearing of animals as nothing else but an industrial product. Not only from an animal welfare point of view, but also for human health, because there are indications that super-bugs resistent to antibiotics exist because farm animals are given antbibiotics on a large scale, completely unconnected to an actual need for them: (from the article above)

I think regarding meat as an industrial product that can just be produced on a gigantic scale with zero consequences for people and the environment was a mistake.
Before you think I am a hard-core Level 8 Vegan, I do eat meat. In fact I love it. All variations of it. And fish. But maybe it's gone a little nuts lately.

I would disagree with the opinion that people "expect to eat meat daily, or even several times daily. Full Irish, meat-packed sandwich for lunch and the big roast for dinner." "Every day" ...

The majority of people I know eat a range of foods both of animal and vegetable origin.

Very very few have a 'full Irish' (sic) for breakfast or even a 'meat packed' sandwhich followed by a 'big roast dinner' every day.

The truth is that the majority of people may only have meat once a day. May choose to eat a salad etc and certainly do not have a 'big roast dinner' every night.

I do agree with you when you say "what should be addressed is farming on an industrial megascale like for example in the US:" - though with the caveat that this also applies to industrial megascale arable, horticultural and fruit/ nut production. This type of production is most certainly industrial and such products are produced on a gigantic scale with significant consequences for both people and the environment. The veggie movement appears to ignore that ...

Tar.Aldarion · 26-06-2018 11:09am

Have had to delete a good few more posts with most of the rest bordering on deletion, keep it on topic, this threads days are numbered.

[Deleted User] · 26-06-2018 12:31pm

More hard truths -

https://youtu.be/xcR76gERgRk

How your farm animals are raised

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