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Proposal to make colleges obliged to provide consent classes

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Why do men feel so victimised by this stuff? A not insignificant number of men are monsters and rapists, yes, and until they realise that they're not entitled to women's bodies, people will keep pushing for more education. Perhaps instead of whining and playing the victim, you might want to join in with teaching about boundaries and consent. Plenty of men are also in favour of these schemes.

    All the consent training in the world will not stop the monsters and rapists.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #33
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Feisar wrote: »
    My opinion is as you point out based upon my own mileage as they say. I've always taken no as no and hmm as a no.

    And my experience is most men will do the same.

    But at a very rough estimate I'd say 1 in 20 won't on a night out. Now if there's hundreds of people in a club, I'll let you do the maths there.


  • #34
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Feisar wrote: »
    All the consent training in the world will not stop the monsters and rapists.

    Are you sure about that?

    It may not stop the boogeyman in an alleyway from attacking, but there is a good chance it might stop a young lad from persisting with a girl who is clearly too drunk.


  • #35
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    No issue with teaching young men about consent, provided the girls are taught about taking responsibility for their behaviour and the consequences of excess drinking.


  • #36
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Are you sure about that?

    It may not stop the boogeyman in an alleyway from attacking, but there is a good chance it might stop a young lad from persisting with a girl who is clearly too drunk.

    No I'm not sure and maybe I'm being to black and white in my opinion of people. However the poster was referring to monsters which I took to be the boogeyman in the alleyway.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • #37
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    the consequences of excess drinking.

    Do you mean hangovers?

    Because getting raped is not a consequence of excess drinking.


  • #38
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    It's infuriating how many men simply refuse to believe that things happen because they don't happen to THEM. This is part of the problem. The denying and belittling.

    One straight male friend of mine didn't really 'get' it until we dragged him to a gay bar to watch a friend's band and he got hit on and touched all night. It was a total revelation to him how intrusive and violating unwanted attention and touching can be. He was giving out about the cheek of a fella asking him what he was doing in a gay bar if he wasn't up for a shag, and I said 'have you any idea how many men have said that to me in my life?' and all the girls in the group loudly agreed. He gets it now.

    Im of the opinion if men went out in skimpy clothes and their mickeys barely covered they would be hit on by the women to..........


  • #39
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    No issue with teaching young men about consent, provided the girls are taught about taking responsibility for their behaviour and the consequences of excess drinking.

    Point being there shouldn't be consequences to getting pissed.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #40
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Im of the opinion if men went out in skimpy clothes and their mickeys barely covered they would be hit on by the women to..........

    Do you understand the difference between "hit on" and "assault", because it's a pretty crucial difference here.


  • #41
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Do you mean hangovers?

    Because getting raped is not a consequence of excess drinking.

    Predators target drunk girls.


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  • #42
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    That's a bit of a vague one. It just mentions that there has been in increase of assaults. It doesn't define what assaults, what the specific accusation was or how much of an increase. Or link to the study or source it's refering to.

    Tgere is also likely an increase in reporting.

    Anyway this should be already covered in sex ed in high school and there would be no need for consent classes and no whinging from usual suspects. Everyone knows you are not supposed to knock out someone, drag them into a dark alley and rape them. But somehow add drink to the mix and half the people think they can use that as an excuse and absolving themselves of the responsibility.


  • #43
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Predators target drunk girls.

    Yes. So... girls shouldn't be allowed to ever get drunk? Perhaps we could ban women from drinking altogether, and then rape wouldn't happen?

    Or we could target our measures at the actual criminal involved...


  • #44
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Do you understand the difference between "hit on" and "assault", because it's a pretty crucial difference here.

    Would a woman squeegeeing a mans ass be assault?


  • #45
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Would a woman squeegeeing a mans ass be assault?

    If it wasn't consensual, it would be considered an assault on the minor end of the scale.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The irony of a consent class being forced upon you.


  • #47
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    If it wasn't consensual, it would be considered an assault on the minor end of the scale.

    And what should the penalty be?


  • #48
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Yes. So... girls shouldn't be allowed to ever get drunk? Perhaps we could ban women from drinking altogether, and then rape wouldn't happen?

    Or we could target our measures at the actual criminal involved...

    They're allowed to drink. They just need to be aware that the more they drink, and the more revealing they dress, the greater the risk they're taking.


  • #49
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Feisar wrote: »
    My opinion is as you point out based upon my own mileage as they say. I've always taken no as no and hmm as a no.

    You realise, that's not consent? It's about getting a yes as much as accepting a no.

    People have used that as a defense on the basis that the girl was passed out drunk.

    SoundsRight wrote: »
    No issue with teaching young men about consent, provided the girls are taught about taking responsibility for their behaviour and the consequences of excess drinking.

    In fainress, EVERYONE should be taught about that. And not just for consent reasons.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #50
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Feisar wrote: »
    Point being there shouldn't be consequences to getting pissed.

    There are. Hangovers at the minor end of the scale, health implications at the major.

    Drinking too much alcohol, ultimately, is going to out you in a vulnerable position.
    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Would a woman squeegeeing a mans ass be assault?

    Yep.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The irony of a consent class being forced upon you.

    Agreed :) but no one is suggesting mandatory (I hope!)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #51
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    They're allowed to drink. They just need to be aware that the more they drink, and the more revealing they dress, the greater the risk they're taking.

    This is exactly what people mean when they talk about "rape culture". It doesn't mean that people view rape as acceptable, which obviously most normal humans don't.

    It means that when we talk about rape more emphasis is placed on how women "get themselves raped" than the rapist's behaviour.

    Can you provide any links to back up the statement that women who dress more revealingly are more likely to be raped? Do you have any data points to back up that assertion?


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  • #52
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    You realise, that's not consent? It's about getting a yes.

    People have used that as a defense on the basis that the girl was passed out drunk.




    In fainress, EVERYONE should be taught about that. And not just for consent reasons.

    I'll be honest i don't think I every got a verbal "yes". "Fukcin' give it to me" would be as close as it would have got. Does strong physical involvement not count as a yes?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #53
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    There are. Hangovers at the minor end of the scale, health implications at the major.



    Yep.



    Agreed :) but no one is suggesting mandatory (I hope!)

    Ah come on I was responding to a poster, yer being a wee bit pedantic.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #54
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Lots of men. Not all men. Not even most men. A very small proportion overall. But plenty.

    You are welcome to believe what you wish, but your opinion doesn't appear to be based on anything? Why not give it a try for a period of three years or so and see if it has an impact?

    I mean if somebody gets to 18 and considers non concensual fingering ok, a consent course isn’t going to do much.

    However earlier intervention might.


  • #55
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Feisar wrote: »
    I'll be honest i don't think I every got a verbal "yes". "Fukcin' give it to me" would be as close as it would have got. Does strong physical involvement not count as a yes?

    It does. If a woman is tearing your clothes off and actively involved, she is demonstrating enthusiasm.


  • #56
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    imagine all the things people are told they shouldnt do but do anyway...lie, break a red light, mitch off school. people do bad things.


  • #57
    oLoonatic
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭oLoonatic


    This should be thought in all primary schools. My five year old knows the principles of 'my body my rules'. its not that F£CK1NG hard. forcing adults to sit through a consent class is surely to bring out the "sick of the snowflakes" brigade.


  • #58
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    imagine all the things people are told they shouldnt do but do anyway...lie, break a red light, mitch off school. people do bad things.

    Yes, and as a society we try to encourage them not to. So we run campaigns telling people to wear seatbelts, not drink and drive, and ensure they have consent in a sexual encounter...


  • #59
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Feisar wrote: »
    I'll be honest i don't think I every got a verbal "yes". "Fukcin' give it to me" would be as close as it would have got. Does strong physical involvement not count as a yes?

    Never said it had to be verbal, but it depends on how clear you want your interaction to be. You and I both know that if the girl changes her mind or has regrets she may well make accusations and while you may not have done anything wrong - you will be taken to court and even if nor convicted you will face a social backlash.

    I've had it happen a few times, and I've always managed to stop at some point before it gets to far and ask "are you sure you want to do this?".

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #60
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Feisar wrote: »
    Ah come on I was responding to a poster, yer being a wee bit pedantic.

    I know, but it's the point at which the misunderstandings start.

    (Trust me - I interact with a lot of sex-positive and kink-friednly groups - and it's better clarified at the start)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • #61
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Why do men feel so victimised by this stuff? A not insignificant number of men are monsters and rapists, yes, and until they realise that they're not entitled to women's bodies, people will keep pushing for more education. Perhaps instead of whining and playing the victim, you might want to join in with teaching about boundaries and consent. Plenty of men are also in favour of these schemes.

    Maybe its because of all the crap that the feminists/woke minded folk pulled the last couple of times they tried to force these consent classes.

    Why would i join with people who don't like men and label them as rapists by default?

    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Literally no one said anything like this.

    Where is your compassion for victims of sexual assault (who, of course, can be both male and female)?

    See above the usual approach when implementing these courses is that all men are bad and likely to rape. Lets also not forget a so called blogger at the time who tried to redefine what rape is to fit as an example of why we need these consent classes.

    I have sympathy for victims of sexual assault, but **** those who use such a serious issue to have a go at the opposite sex. The same goes for those who redefine what sexual violence is to be something lesser as it undermines the gravity of the crime.


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