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Should old Disney movies be banned in the era of #MeToo??

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I think sex abuse rings in UK are the Goodwin on Boards. If thread us long enough someone will mention it regardless if it's relevant or not.
    Yeah, that's the real problem with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Yeah, that's the real problem with them.

    What's the real problem is currently investigated in Uk but I still don't see what's their connection to Cinderella.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    'Manspreading' - which is definitely a thing - stems from an unholy combination of overconfidence, entitlement and self-importance, I think. I see it on public transport every day - more often than not, I find that the perpetrators are middle-class and middle-aged. They tend to have loud phone conversations too because... nobody else matters.

    Perhaps as a side-effect of #MeToo, women will become more confident and more likely to take 'ownership' of public spaces too. I hope not, tbh.

    Women putting their bags on seats on public transport (and refusing to move them) is a bigger issue than "manspreading" will ever be. Your bag doesn't need a seat of its own!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    meeeeh wrote: »
    What's the real problem is currently investigated in Uk but I still don't see what's their connection to Cinderella.
    Well there was a lot more to the post like, so that's pretty dishonest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    social media really has the world gone up its own arse

    hopefully the backlash against this sort of nonsense will start soon

    if it doesn't we are all fcuked


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    No way!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Or does it make these Disneys movies all the more important in the metoo age. A delicate flame keeping alight the torches of reason and common sense in these dark ages.

    You're suggesting Disney movies are torches of reason and common sense? When's the last time you watched one? :confused:


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Did you even read the thread? Or it’s title?

    Have you? The trigger is an article about 2 women publicly stating they don't want their children watch certain Disney movies because they don't agree with the message they're sending.

    I'm still not quite sure how the OP made the leap to "banning" films based on that, but hey, there's nothing like a good bit of baseless righteous outrage to wake some people up in the mornings.

    I recall Jeremy Clarkson a while back stating that he wouldn't allow his children to get motorbikes - but I can't recall anyone online making the mental leap to suggest that because of this, there might be a ban on motorbikes just around the corner now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Should old Disney movies be banned in the era of #MeToo?? They should in their bollocks.
    The old Disney films bring great memories from childhood for a lot of people.These modern era pansys need to shut up or be shut up.Constantly on the lookout for their next outrage.



    #MeToo my bollocks.

    Wait till they watch a few of the old WB Looney Tunes....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    'Manspreading' - which is definitely a thing - stems from an unholy combination of overconfidence, entitlement and self-importance, I think. I see it on public transport every day - more often than not, I find that the perpetrators are middle-class and middle-aged. They tend to have loud phone conversations too because... nobody else matters.

    Perhaps as a side-effect of #MeToo, women will become more confident and more likely to take 'ownership' of public spaces too. I hope not, tbh.

    I would wonder if it has anything to do with the middle class and aged spread of their lifestyle to decrease the distance between their thighs, putting their testicles as risk of crushing when legs are closed?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Grayson wrote: »
    To be fair i also don't think RTE should be broadcasting death of a nation on a sunday afternoon ;)

    I bought my niece a disney doll. i asked which ones hadn't been rescued by a man and there's only a few. having said that i wouldn't ban the movies. I can understand why some people would stop their kids watching certain ones.

    Take peppa pig for example. I know a woman who doesn't show it to her kid because of the way Daddy pig is portrayed. He's pretty much a fat idiot.

    I wouldn't "ban" anything for general consumption but I do understand wanting to promote certain positive messages for young children. That's a decision every parent makes and it's up to them. I generally wouldn't judge them too much for it.

    And don't forget that Peppa is a complete a5sehole to her parents. You don't want your kids acting like her.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    silverharp wrote: »
    true, Its very rare I could get my kids to watch anything made before the 90's. if we do now its more to have a laugh.

    Come on! The Aristocats! Best movie ever. A very lady-like cat and her kittens get rescued by a loveable alley-cat rogue (and led presumably thereafter into some manner of debauchery). The children and I must have watched it a thousand times when they were small.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ok the hyperbole clickbait nonsense of "banning" the movies aside -
    She said of Little Mermaid: "I mean, the songs are great, but do not give your voice up for a man. Hello!"

    - don't suppose that one got explained at all in the same interview did it? I do not see the problem with that one. Why should she not give her voice up for a man?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Im sure all the Larry Murphys and Harvey Weinsteins of the world , must have turned into predators from watching Disney movies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,650 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Ok the hyperbole clickbait nonsense of "banning" the movies aside -


    - don't suppose that one got explained at all in the same interview did it? I do not see the problem with that one. Why should she not give her voice up for a man?


    It didn’t, but I can’t get my head around how she took that from the movie in the first place tbh. Ariel doesn’t “give up her voice for a man”, she “gives up her voice” in a deal with Ursula the sea witch to become human. Ms. Knightley must have been out for a toilet break when Ariel rescues Eric from drowning too, and in the end it all works out because Triton changes Ariel from a mermaid into a human and she marries Eric and they all live happily ever after.

    It’s just a very odd take on the movie which looks to me at least like an attempt to turn an innocent film into something far more nefarious and negative than the original idea. Obviously if that’s her take on the film, I can understand why she wouldn’t want her children to watch it, but that’s more an issue with Ms. Knightley's perspective than it is any issue with the film.

    There are other tales on the film top of course, which I can easier understand than Ms. Knightleys -


    Why Ariel from 'The Little Mermaid' Is an Overlooked Trans Icon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    It didn’t, but I can’t get my head around how she took that from the movie in the first place tbh. Ariel doesn’t “give up her voice for a man”, she “gives up her voice” in a deal with Ursula the sea witch to become human. Ms. Knightley must have been out for a toilet break when Ariel rescues Eric from drowning too, and in the end it all works out because Triton changes Ariel from a mermaid into a human and she marries Eric and they all live happily ever after.

    It’s just a very odd take on the movie which looks to me at least like an attempt to turn an innocent film into something far more nefarious and negative than the original idea. Obviously if that’s her take on the film, I can understand why she wouldn’t want her children to watch it, but that’s more an issue with Ms. Knightley's perspective than it is any issue with the film.

    And those old fairy tales are takes on archetypal myths that have passed down through human history. The takes vary over time, but the archetype remains there - the dark and light forces in the psyche etc.If people are worried about a certain generations take on the archetypes, why not reinterpret them. They have the cash to do those kind of things. But they seem to love whining. And they are used as well, as faces for movements. That poor used to be Hermione Granger girl has been turned into a fecken eegit by her handlers trying to be so right on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It didn’t, but I can’t get my head around how she took that from the movie in the first place tbh. Ariel doesn’t “give up her voice for a man”, she “gives up her voice” in a deal with Ursula the sea witch to become human.

    In order to be with Prince Eric.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Hurrache wrote: »
    In order to be with Prince Eric.

    Yeah, okay, so what. The yearning to be loved, to be completed by another 'half', from men or women's POV is fairly fundamental - though it goes under different guises, repressed, expressed, transmuted, etc. What's the big deal. Did you ever read the story about the girl who sold her hair to buy the watch strap for the lad who sold his watch to buy the ribbons for her hair? I have a little book here - love letters from famous men - and it would break your heart. The depth of love and almost transcendental longing is so moving - and seems almost anachronistic in these very materialistic times.
    Love stories - even Ariel sacrificing her voice - are archetypal. They work on different levels. Everyone sacrifices in real life. For children. For parents. For loved ones. For vocations. Its real.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It didn’t, but I can’t get my head around how she took that from the movie in the first place tbh.

    Different point though. I was steel-manning her position by merely going with her assumption that her take on the story was correct and _then_ asking what her issue with it might be from there.

    So assuming the character gave up her voice "for a man" - so what. I am not seeing what the issue would-should be if she had.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,650 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Zorya wrote: »
    And those old fairy tales are takes on archetypal myths that have passed down through human history. The takes vary over time, but the archetype remains there - the dark and light forces in the psyche etc.If people are worried about a certain generations take on the archetypes, why not reinterpret them. They have the cash to do those kind of things. But they seem to love whining. And they are used as well, as faces for movements. That poor used to be Hermione Granger girl has been turned into a fecken eegit by her handlers trying to be so right on.


    I will admit I’m a fan of all things mythical, folklore and fairytales, and I think as you said modern reinterpretations are a good thing. Even as I was reading the thread I could think of dozens of movies which have come out in the last few years which have been reinterpreted and different perspectives given and taken from them. I thought Maleficent was a great retelling of the story of Sleeping Beauty from the Witches perspective, but then I read this just now and thought “fcuk me, that’s just bizarre!”, because I didn’t get this from the movie at all -

    Themes

    Multiple reviewers and commentators have opined that an early scene in the movie, in which Stefan drugs Maleficent and removes her wings from her unconscious body, is a metaphor for rape. Hayley Krischner of The Huffington Post interpreted the scene as an important reference to rape culture: "This is the horrific side of rape culture. We're so enmeshed in it that it's impossible to ignore a metaphoric rape that occurs in a Disney movie". She went on to praise the film for giving a positive and hopeful message to rape victims, ultimately allowing "the woman to recover. It gives her agency. It gives her power. It allows her to reclaim the story". Monika Bartyzel of The Week noted the scene's implications in her review: "In its first act, Maleficent offers a dark, surprisingly adult exploration of rape and female mutilation". However, Bartyzel went on to opine that the film portrayed Maleficent's actions as "a rape revenge fantasy" and criticized the film for not following through on its early subtext, ultimately calling it less feminist and reductive compared to its 1959 counterpart: "In Maleficent, Aurora is the product of a cold and loveless marriage and a vengeful, unhinged rapist. Her safety relies on a trio of clueless and dangerously careless fairies, and her Godmother is the woman who cursed her—and who had, in turn, been violated by her own father". Angelina Jolie addressed the issue during an interview with BBC Radio 4 on the Woman's Hour programme and claimed that the subtext was intentional: "The question was asked: 'What could make a woman become so dark and lose all sense of her maternity, her womanhood, and her softness?' [...] We were very conscious, the writer and I, that [the scene] was a metaphor for rape". She further explained that the answer to the question "What could bring her back?" was still "an extreme Disney, fun version [of the story]", but "at the core it is abuse, and how the abused then have a choice of abusing others or overcoming and remaining loving, open people".

    Jordan Shapiro of Forbes argued that the film's main subtext was the detrimental effects of ultimatums between capitalist and socialist societies. He pointed out that the Moors represented a socialist, nature-oriented, democratic society while the human kingdom was one of capitalism, industry and absolute monarchy. Shapiro further commented that the character of Stefan, his theft of the Moors' riches (the jewel) and his mutilation of Maleficent's wings for the sake of his ambition were references to the American Dream. He conceived the wing-tearing scene as "a social commentary that any hierarchical rise to power inherently happens through the exploitation of others", explaining that it was the reason why "without her wings, Maleficent also becomes an oppressive ruler of the Moors. Everything she represents, believes and stands for has been grounded", and "like most victims of oppression", "she takes it out on those who are smaller and weaker". He concluded that through the merge of the two kingdoms at the end of the film, it sought to weave together capitalism and socialism and let go oppositions: "It is time to leave the kingdom of familiar partisan oppositions: let's replace either/or with neither/nor or both/and".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,650 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Hurrache wrote: »
    In order to be with Prince Eric.


    She wanted to be human before she was ever even aware of Prince Eric?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    I will admit I’m a fan of all things mythical, folklore and fairytales, and I think as you said modern reinterpretations are a good thing. Even as I was reading the thread I could think of dozens of movies which have come out in the last few years which have been reinterpreted and different perspectives given and taken from them. I thought Maleficent was a great retelling of the story of Sleeping Beauty from the Witches perspective, but then I read this just now and thought “fcuk me, that’s just bizarre!”, because I didn’t get this from the movie at all -

    I wouldn't have made the mental connection with rape, either - but I have to admit, I can understand why someone might.
    It's a violation of another's bodily integrity, and leaves the victim both physically and mentally scarred.
    Personally, I might have associated it more with FGM, for example.

    I admit that I loved the film, as a completely different take on the story, and particularly as a interpretation that's not just good and evil, but both, on both sides.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Maleficent is great.

    I'm 40 but I didn't overly grow up with Disney cartoons. I never watched Bambi, Snow White, Little Mermaid or Cinderella. We had loads of kids books but mum often picked them according to artistic quality of illustrations so any overly sparkly and sweet versions were not bought. I have a Cinderella book that was bought solely because of illustrations when I was 17. It never even occurred to me that kids might want to watch Snow White, Cinderella or any other classic Disney cartoons more aimed at boys. I remember going to puppet theatre but never to the cinema to see cartoons. So I guess my fairly conservative parents brought us up according to some 'feminazi' principles just because mum thought opera or going to art galleries is great fun for kids.

    Anyway I really don't know why the outrage, kids don't play cowboys and indians any more either and nobody is going mental because of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    meeeeh wrote: »

    Anyway I really don't know why the outrage, kids don't play cowboys and indians any more either and nobody is going mental because of it.

    They don't?

    I'll have to let my 4 year old know I'm taking his bow and arrows away. He won't be happy :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    She wanted to be human before she was ever even aware of Prince Eric?

    She had a fascination with it but she was willing to give up everything in her life, family, looks and features, in order to be with him.

    I can see why it can be argued that there's a theme there that a girl not happy about her life is willing to change her looks, appearance, herself, to seek out happiness.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    meeeeh wrote: »
    ...

    Anyway I really don't know why the outrage, kids don't play cowboys and indians any more either and nobody is going mental because of it.

    Oh, now that you've mentioned that, just give it a couple of minutes.
    Sometimes people need reminding what they should be outraged about :D;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,969 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Different point though. I was steel-manning her position by merely going with her assumption that her take on the story was correct and _then_ asking what her issue with it might be from there.

    So assuming the character gave up her voice "for a man" - so what. I am not seeing what the issue would-should be if she had.

    That she doesn't want her daughter being given a message that you have to give up your voice, your opinion, your identity, for a man. That who a woman is, her voice, is important and not something that should be traded to be with someone. That if the price of being with a person is giving up your ability to speak, go another way.

    I actually can't understand how you can think or imply that having an issue with giving up your voice for a man is a baseless position.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭smilerf


    It's all a load of bull if you ask me. Ooh ooh he looked at me funny. I'm doing him for sexual harassment

    I just found out the other day that they banned 11 looney tunes shorts because of something like this. Bugs Bunny in Africa and guess what there are Africans there. Who would have thunk it.

    But its very very racist now. Jesus give me a break


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Hurrache wrote: »
    In order to be with Prince Eric.

    In fairness Little mermaid should be banned as Ariel was pretending to be a female human and taking advantage of Eric. This is an absolute disgrace.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    In fairness Little mermaid should be banned as Ariel was pretending to be a female human and taking advantage of Eric. This is an absolute disgrace.

    True, she was only given legs wasn't she, as opposed to being changed into a human?! Might make for an interesting wedding night.


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