Irish traditions - those under threat or already extinct?

yermanoffthetv · 07-02-2018 11:18pm

Donkey Derbies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XtVm8z28e4

Jurgen Klopp · 07-02-2018 11:20pm

That still happens

as well as under 8s on goats and sheep

Mountainsandh · 08-02-2018 12:11am

My kids are in a small rural school, they've read a selection of myths and legends in class. Couldn't tell you which exactly, the usual ones I guess, Salmon of Knowledge, Tir Na Nog, ...

I think folk art is being lost. It's not popular anymore to do your own thing, and decorate your house/garden with recycled shells, stones, miscellaneous items, paint them in bright colours, etc...

In my area you can still see a few of these quartz rocks people came across that they might have thought were beautiful or precious, and they are usually arranged in a rockery, or simply displayed on entrance piers.
My MIL has a rockery with such "beautiful" stones, with discarded lumps of Waterford crystal too, as her husband worked at Waterford Crystal all his life.
But I think you can only see the existing ones, and younger people don't do that.

There was this old man near me who decked out his house and gardens in a humongous collection of objects, all were presents people brought to his house,or the odd thing he'd found and liked for himself. He died a little while ago, and his relation who inherited the house cleaned it up mostly.

The shell cottages, the old farm machinery painted bright red or green and displayed in the garden, they're not very popular these days with younger families.

Everything displayed seems to be bought off a shop, except for the odd artist's studio where you might see a hand painted sign or something a little different.

I love folk art so I think it's a pity.

edit : I just remembered too, my husband's granny planted every available container : tupperware, old teapots, belfast sinks, buckets even, anything she could lay her hands on. She'd just pick a leaf and twig off a shrub, fire it in with some compost, and it just seemed to work every time for her. Loved her garden !

whisky_galore · 08-02-2018 11:36am

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

That still happens as well as under 8s on goats and sheep

Think the ISPCA would frown on that now!

Insurance costs and changing tastes have spelt the end of the many carnivals and field days up and down the country.

whisky_galore · 08-02-2018 11:51am

Revival of the old 'fit-up' theatre concept.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/artsfilmtv/artsvibe/taking-to-the-road-201068.html

Pixel Eater · 09-02-2018 6:39pm

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Any teachers here?

https://www.scoilnet.ie/primary/theme-pages/history/ireland-long-ago/

Salmon of knowledge is listed, is that official or a by choice resource?

I also noticed UCC do a Irish myths and legends course I don't know if it's a good thing to have it or bad that you need a third level optional course to teach it

Is that site the official curriculum? So are ancient Irish myths taught then?

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Modernising Ireland such as religious freedom is grand throwing out and ignoring your historical myths and legends is a downright fcuking disgrace

I'd love to see what's teh story with the same in Japan, China , etc and see

Japan is a good example of where tradition and ultra modern can co-exist quite well.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My kids are in a small rural school, they've read a selection of myths and legends in class. Couldn't tell you which exactly, the usual ones I guess, Salmon of Knowledge, Tir Na Nog, ...

I think folk art is being lost. It's not popular anymore to do your own thing, and decorate your house/garden with recycled shells, stones, miscellaneous items, paint them in bright colours, etc...

In my area you can still see a few of these quartz rocks people came across that they might have thought were beautiful or precious, and they are usually arranged in a rockery, or simply displayed on entrance piers.
My MIL has a rockery with such "beautiful" stones, with discarded lumps of Waterford crystal too, as her husband worked at Waterford Crystal all his life.
But I think you can only see the existing ones, and younger people don't do that.

There was this old man near me who decked out his house and gardens in a humongous collection of objects, all were presents people brought to his house,or the odd thing he'd found and liked for himself. He died a little while ago, and his relation who inherited the house cleaned it up mostly.

The shell cottages, the old farm machinery painted bright red or green and displayed in the garden, they're not very popular these days with younger families.

Everything displayed seems to be bought off a shop, except for the odd artist's studio where you might see a hand painted sign or something a little different.

I love folk art so I think it's a pity.

edit : I just remembered too, my husband's granny planted every available container : tupperware, old teapots, belfast sinks, buckets even, anything she could lay her hands on. She'd just pick a leaf and twig off a shrub, fire it in with some compost, and it just seemed to work every time for her. Loved her garden !

Agreed. There is all this 'vintage' 19th Century style decorations you see a lot of today but to me it just looks like generic tack. Plus you can guarantee that thousands of other people have the same crap all over the world.

tabbey · 13-02-2018 2:00pm

Ipso wrote: »

Thank god that didn't happen, the Boru story is a bit more complicated than him saving Ireland from Vikings.

Absolutely!

Before Brian Boru, Ireland was a country of small kingdoms in which each king respected the others.
King of Cashel was king of Munster, that in Tara was High King of Ireland.

Boru spent his life fighting to get up the ladder, killing any who got in his way, mostly unfotunate peasants who had no control.
The Battle of Clontarf was a war between Boru and Dublin, not between Ireland and Norsemen. Brian had to defeat Dublin to get absolute control of the country.

It is only the nationalistic agenda of the modern era that has created the myth of Brian Boru as a national hero, defeating the Danes.

At the 2014 re-enactment of the battle, I cheered when Brian was slain, the death of a bloodthirsty tyrant.

The guy on the microphone declared that someone did not know what side he (I) was on. Unfortunately the majority were unaware of the true story.

miamee · 13-02-2018 5:21pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

That group in Dingle have been doing the Wren for quite some time, they get on the news every year.

Poitin making. I recall vaguely comical Garda raids on poitin stills on RTE in the 80's.
Any illegal hooch these days is probably made in vats in a farm shed or industrial unit rather than out on the bog. Mass produced, packaged and labelled to resemble a real brand.

The bit in bold reminded me of this video which someone shared with me not too long ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtJMXqvNcxA

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Approximately 100 years ago there was the Gaelic Revival, a sense of cultural awakening against a tide of Anglicisation. Does modern Ireland need a similar movement to kick-start a renewal of our national identity?

With the age of the internet the lines of national identities have blurred imo and you now have access to the same news, tv shows, sports, etc. as a many other countries. It's getting harder to pinpoint what makes an Irish person different to any other nationality. There again, among my friends children lots of them still play GAA or do Irish dancing so all is not lost.

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Any teachers here?

https://www.scoilnet.ie/primary/theme-pages/history/ireland-long-ago/

Salmon of knowledge is listed, is that official or a by choice resource?

I also noticed UCC do a Irish myths and legends course I don't know if it's a good thing to have it or bad that you need a third level optional course to teach it

UCD used to also offer a Celtic Mythology course which I studied for one year of my BA, however there was insufficient interest to continue it for the full degree. A pity, I could have had a very different career! It was fascinating and as mentioned above about the UCC course, it focused on a multitude of things (languages, peoples, myths, realities). I must look up the few bits I kept from the course and have a read, it was fascinating stuff at the time.

Personally I think that everything is cyclical and eventually a lot of these traditions will be come commonplace again or will be revived in another form. Social media has killed off a lot of social occasions that don't involve the pub, however I think when we've moved on from peak 'social media' people will return to face to face socialising. And they'll herald it as a gret 'new' idea while they're at it

Say my name · 18-02-2018 2:52pm

The "Mountain Sunday" or "Fraughan Sunday" up on the Blackstairs mountains in July. My folks brought myself and the sister up in the 80's but by then it was a shadow of it's former glory.
At that stage there were just a few families going and a few people would sing songs or someone might have an accordion.
The children would pick fraughans while the folks would make an attempt at a shin dig.

For anyone that doesn't know it was a gathering on the mountain on a foot pass over the mountain on a plateau right on the Carlow Wexford border. It was a great opportunity for the communities separated by the Blackstairs mountain chain to come together for a social get together that otherwise they may never have seen one another all year. Matches were made and various other shenanigans occurred.

There's a more in dept look at it here in this blog.
Scroll down to the part "Mountain Sunday".

https://archaeouplands.wordpress.com/

The author claims that the last one was in the 70's but the photo he has are neighbours of mine with some of the children born in the 80's. I'd estimate it was 1987 instead of 1977.

pedroeibar1 · 18-02-2018 11:20pm

Good manners, simple courtesy. Fast disappearing in Ireland and extinct in many quarters.

LoughNeagh2017 · 12-03-2018 3:00pm

There have have been about 8 houses built on my road within 18 years, that's 8 fields gone, eventually it will get to the stage where a townland becomes a village.
There used to be many traditions involving the fairies which have died out like putting flowers next to doors and windows and closing windows when someone dies.

I think the GAA has too much power in communities, it is all centred around sport and music, that has become the new culture and everything else has been forgotten about, I think the GAA actually divides Irish people more than it brings them together, my county used to have teammates fighting one another at training sessions because of club rivalries.

whisky_galore · 12-03-2018 4:03pm

If it wasn't GAA it would be something else tbh, and music has degenerated into tourist-pleasing diddly-i or crowd-pleasing bastardised Country n Western but hey that's what people seem to want.

DamoRed · 12-03-2018 10:48pm

Not sure how many remember these, but they're all wedding related http://oldmooresalmanac.com/lost-irish-wedding-rituals/

tabbey · 12-03-2018 11:09pm

DamoRed wrote: »

Not sure how many remember these, but they're all wedding related http://oldmooresalmanac.com/lost-irish-wedding-rituals/

Some dates seem a bit out, for example bicycles were not common in 1830, for weddings or anything else.
Marriages in the home were common in the mid 1800s, but not in 1900.

Most of the claims have a lot of truth, but silly errors make such articles less credible.

Pixel Eater · 13-03-2018 4:42pm

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

There have have been about 8 houses built on my road within 18 years, that's 8 fields gone, eventually it will get to the stage where a townland becomes a village.
There used to be many traditions involving the fairies which have died out like putting flowers next to doors and windows and closing windows when someone dies.

I think the GAA has too much power in communities, it is all centred around sport and music, that has become the new culture and everything else has been forgotten about, I think the GAA actually divides Irish people more than it brings them together, my county used to have teammates fighting one another at training sessions because of club rivalries.

It's a bit of stretch to say GAA divides more than unites; maybe that's just a few gob****es in your county team (every county and sport has those). Whatever anyone things of the GAA itself, it is a major cultural aspect of Ireland. Without it, I dare say, the dominance of Premier League soccer would be even more pronounced.

Snickers Man · 13-03-2018 6:32pm

Hitch hiking.

In my youth (70s-80s) hitch hiking was how the young and impecunious got around the country. Even the great youth-oriented international guide books (like Let's Go--the bible of the budget traveller at the time but largely now superseded by Lonely Planet and/or TripAdvisor.com) recommended that you save your money by avoiding the irregular, uncomfortable, unreliable and expensive public transport options of the time and hitch hike instead.

I can't remember the last time I saw a hitch hiker on a main road. Of course the appearance of motorways may have helped bring about the practice's demise. As well as the greater "awareness" or let's call it like it is, downright fear of one's fellow man, that the new easily outraged generation likes to puff up to a level of importance it hardly deserves.

And another thing.....
live impromptu traditional music in Dublin pubs. Where can you see that now? People from England always ask me for recommendations and I just can't think of any because I don't know any. Do they even exist any more?

DamoRed · 14-03-2018 3:01pm

Does anyone remember the days of your youth, when you'd go out for a bit of food, and it'd be served on plates?

tabbey · 14-03-2018 10:51pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Hitch hiking.

In my youth (70s-80s) hitch hiking was how the young and impecunious got around the country

When I read this first, I thought it was a bit too recent to be considered a tradition.

Then I remembered that about 1856 or 57, one of my great great grandmothers was in the paper in relating to her giving a lift (on a horse drawn vehicle) to a man who due to alcohol forgot his position, and insulted her.
The man had to put an apology in the paper as well as paying my ancestors legal costs.

04-04-2018 12:54pm

I was just explaining to my three year old as we sat here looking out at the rain that that these are the Laethanta na Bó Riabhaí. I never heard of them until recent years when I was sitting at the table with my parents, both of whom were born in the 1930s, and one said to the other looking out the window about the "reevagh days". The two of them, one from Connacht and the other from Leinster, then had a big discussion about the tradition, with which they were both very familiar.

Laethanta na Bó Riabhaí

Laethanta na Bó Riabhaí

Laethanta na Bó Riabhaí

Borrowed Days of the Speckled/Brindled Cow

Some lovely accounts from school children all across Ireland about the tradition on the superb Dúchas website:

Dúchas: Laethanta na Bó Riabhaí

riffmongous · 04-04-2018 8:39pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Hitch hiking.

In my youth (70s-80s) hitch hiking was how the young and impecunious got around the country. Even the great youth-oriented international guide books (like Let's Go--the bible of the budget traveller at the time but largely now superseded by Lonely Planet and/or TripAdvisor.com) recommended that you save your money by avoiding the irregular, uncomfortable, unreliable and expensive public transport options of the time and hitch hike instead.

I can't remember the last time I saw a hitch hiker on a main road. Of course the appearance of motorways may have helped bring about the practice's demise. As well as the greater "awareness" or let's call it like it is, downright fear of one's fellow man, that the new easily outraged generation likes to puff up to a level of importance it hardly deserves.

I wasn't that old at the time but I still remember well the fear the Jo Jo Dollard case caused in my parents generation regarding hitch hiking, that was well before a lot of the 'easily outraged' were born

07-04-2018 9:56am

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

In fact do Irish myths and legends get taught in schools anymore? I know it's not history but you'd expect cultural heritage would come under it

I recently bought a few books on Irish myths and legends from a second hand shop

I'd love to buy Lady Gregory's Irish myths and legends book with artist illustrations it looks feckin brilliant and she has practically ever bit and piece of Fionn MacChuamill, The Red Branch Knights etc

It's feckin €80 on eBay tho

You can get her book at kenny's.ie bookshop , i have it myself i don't know if its the same as the ebay one your looking at but its cheap enough.

laoch na mona · 11-04-2018 11:58am

piseogs and related superstitions are all but gone, a side effect of free education really.

The church is on the wain as an institution (yay)

Trad music is holding strong, bands like Lankum are making it cool again

The language is growing but the gaelteachts are declining

the GAA is still going strong

the wren boys have died off down my way

meithal in its traditional form is gone as a result of modernisation and capitalism but the spirit of helping neighbours out still exists

and of course the ould gombeen man is as strong as ever

whisky_galore · 11-04-2018 12:12pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

and of course the ould gombeen man is as strong as ever

Agree with this, we are very good at spotting opportunities for making money off the inconvenience and misery of others.

laoch na mona · 12-04-2018 8:46am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Agree with this, we are very good at spotting opportunities for making money off the inconvenience and misery of others.

see fodder crisis and lads upping the price of silage because they know farmers are desperate

12-04-2018 8:58am

laoch na mona wrote: »

see fodder crisis and lads upping the price of silage because they know farmers are desperate

The whole reason for the fodder crisis is as follows, milk quotas were lifted, Farmers put more cattle on the land then the land could support, bad winter, now can't feed them. Farmers have no one to blame but themselves, they were greedy.

laoch na mona · 12-04-2018 9:45am

6541 wrote: »

The whole reason for the fodder crisis is as follows, milk quotas were lifted, Farmers put more cattle on the land then the land could support, bad winter, now can't feed them. Farmers have no one to blame but themselves, they were greedy.

that's an over simplification, farmers who didn't expand are running out as well. The cause is a mix of a bad summer, bad winter, late spring

as well as pressures from an expanded dairy herd. The government are to blame for pushing expansion as the only option.

anyway this is off topic

Be well and win · 30-04-2018 4:29pm

The Pioneers
The stations (mass in the house) in rural Ireland- mostly now the station mass is in the church
the sacred heart light/picture in a house, try asking for a builder to wire one in on a new build.!!

tabbey · 30-04-2018 10:04pm

106869772 wrote:

The Pioneers

I assume you mean the PioneerTotal Abstinence Association.

This is little more than a century old.

The temperance movement existed some decades earlier. It had a denominational split, Many proponents of temperance were on the protestant side, whether Anglican or Methodist, joined by many Quakers. On the RC side, Father Matthew had some success. There can be no doubt that alcohol abuse was a major curse, not just in Ireland, but also in Britain.

The pioneers were more than just a temperance association, prayer played a major part in its ethos. Indeed a cynic could be forgiven for suspecting that temperance was merely an excuse to attract members for a prayer group.
I don't want to deny the PTAA the credit for doing their best to curb excessive drinking.
The Pioneers reached their peak in the 1950s,but like all other religious practices, fell victim to television, foreign travel etc,which all led the Irish people to see that there was more to life.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw · 30-04-2018 10:40pm

I grew up in Dublin in the fifties and sixties. There was a man referred to as the jam jar man, who called regularly to the houses on our street collecting jars. He pushed a three wheeled cart with iron wheels. Anyone remember him?

Esel · 30-04-2018 11:12pm

tabbey wrote: »

I assume you mean the PioneerTotal Abstinence Association.

This is little more than a century old.

The temperance movement existed some decades earlier. It had a denominational split, Many proponents of temperance were on the protestant side, whether Anglican or Methodist, joined by many Quakers. On the RC side, Father Mathew had some success. There can be no doubt that alcohol abuse was a major curse, not just in Ireland, but also in Britain.

The pioneers were more than just a temperance association, prayer played a major part in its ethos. Indeed a cynic could be forgiven for suspecting that temperance was merely an excuse to attract members for a prayer group.
I don't want to deny the PTAA the credit for doing their best to curb excessive drinking.
The Pioneers reached their peak in the 1950s,but like all other religious practices, fell victim to television, foreign travel etc,which all led the Irish people to see that there was more to life.

FYP. Only one 't' in his name.

Irish traditions - those under threat or already extinct?

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