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20-10-2020, 08:11   #31
Pintman Paddy Losty
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Have booked the family in for a week in France in the run up to Christmas.

Not going with a tour operator for a change. Gives us a bit more flexibility.

Considered Austria but they make everyone get a test on arrival and it's quite intrusive so don't want to put the kids through it. (neighbour got one and said it's like scraping your brain! )

There's great value out there at the moment. I don't expect apres ski to be like it normally is but should still be nice to get out and enjoy the bit of skiing. Back home on the 23rd and hopeful we can have a normal Christmas this year if level 5 works.

Anyone else heading over? What country are you thinking?
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20-10-2020, 12:48   #32
maddness
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Have booked the family in for a week in France in the run up to Christmas.

Not going with a tour operator for a change. Gives us a bit more flexibility.

Considered Austria but they make everyone get a test on arrival and it's quite intrusive so don't want to put the kids through it. (neighbour got one and said it's like scraping your brain! )

There's great value out there at the moment. I don't expect apres ski to be like it normally is but should still be nice to get out and enjoy the bit of skiing. Back home on the 23rd and hopeful we can have a normal Christmas this year if level 5 works.

Anyone else heading over? What country are you thinking?
Sounds great but what will you do when you come home on the 23rd? Will you all quarantine for two weeks? No having a good at you just genuinely interest to see how you will manage.
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20-10-2020, 17:23   #33
a148pro
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I was thinking similar as Christmas is one of the easier times to quarantine - not in work, only seeing close family

The one good thing about this current lockdown for skiers is that we may have low numbers come early December and be a green light country for easy access to ski countries. Depending, obviously, on what kind of traffic light system is in place.
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20-10-2020, 18:43   #34
maddness
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I was thinking similar as Christmas is one of the easier times to quarantine - not in work, only seeing close family

The one good thing about this current lockdown for skiers is that we may have low numbers come early December and be a green light country for easy access to ski countries. Depending, obviously, on what kind of traffic light system is in place.
That’s what I am hoping for too. If say Italy/France/Austria was a green light country it would be very easy to get a few days pre Christmas. The issue i would worry about is coming home and spending Christmas Day with elderly parents.
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20-10-2020, 23:44   #35
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Yeah. My "hope" is that they'll decide not to do an indoors christmas dinner. To be honest I don't think I'd relax indoors whether I'd been skiing or not? I mean cumulatively there'll be like 9 different grandkids from probably 6 different schools there. A careful ski trip might be the least of their worries.

But there's no right answers here.
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25-10-2020, 09:35   #36
the beer revolu
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Sounds great but what will you do when you come home on the 23rd? Will you all quarantine for two weeks? No having a good at you just genuinely interest to see how you will manage.
Obviously, Paddy and all his family will isolate for two weeks after returning. Just like anyone would, right?
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25-10-2020, 09:42   #37
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But there's no right answers here.
Eh, there are: everyone on the trip self-isolates for two weeks. End of, no exceptions. That literally means no leaving the house except for short walks, alone.
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25-10-2020, 13:56   #38
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I would have thought people would be unsure about Christmas Dinner with their parents this year and if you go skiing I would have assumed it was out of the question while you're supposed to be self isolating.
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25-10-2020, 15:48   #39
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Eh, there are: everyone on the trip self-isolates for two weeks. End of, no exceptions. That literally means no leaving the house except for short walks, alone.
I was talking about having Christmas dinner with my parents, irrespective of whether I'd been skiing, not travelling.

By the way, people can be as pious as they want about self isolating, but it's predicated on either the place they have visited having a greater incidence than here, or the act of flying itself being dangerous. I've just seen the first report today of cases being spread on a flight. I think in months of reading the news thats the first confirmation I've seen.

If you're visiting a place with the same or lower incidence of the virus and if you are not engaging in any more close contact than you are at home then there's no argument for self isolating, unless flying itself is more dangerous.

At the moment I am forced by incompetence of others to work in a building with perhaps 400 visitors a day. The incidence is reasonably high where this building is located (Dublin). But I'm not required to self isolate after each work day.

We were fixated on foreign travel for a while, probably correctly, because people were coming from places with high prevalence and low control. But once we're all as ****ed as each other place that concern probably diminishes.
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25-10-2020, 17:36   #40
a148pro
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To be clear I am NOT advocating not self isolating. I'm just questioning where we're going with travel and society into the future. We can't live in this bunker for ever, at some point we are going to have to live properly with these things.
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25-10-2020, 17:39   #41
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I was talking about having Christmas dinner with my parents, irrespective of whether I'd been skiing, not travelling.

By the way, people can be as pious as they want about self isolating, but it's predicated on either the place they have visited having a greater incidence than here, or the act of flying itself being dangerous. I've just seen the first report today of cases being spread on a flight. I think in months of reading the news thats the first confirmation I've seen.

If you're visiting a place with the same or lower incidence of the virus and if you are not engaging in any more close contact than you are at home then there's no argument for self isolating, unless flying itself is more dangerous.

At the moment I am forced by incompetence of others to work in a building with perhaps 400 visitors a day. The incidence is reasonably high where this building is located (Dublin). But I'm not required to self isolate after each work day.

We were fixated on foreign travel for a while, probably correctly, because people were coming from places with high prevalence and low control. But once we're all as ****ed as each other place that concern probably diminishes.
Surely on a personal level you'd still be concerned about picking up the virus and risk of same.
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25-10-2020, 18:37   #42
a148pro
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I don't know - would depend on what I was doing. Visiting a country with high prevalence and spending a lot of time in Ski bars and cable cars, yes. I wouldn't do this obviously.

Visiting a warm country with low prevalence (say greece early summer this year), staying in self catering and eating outside in restaurants would be low risk. Functionally little different to getting the train to Cork for a staycations.

In the middle, going to a country with same prevalence as us, staying in a hotel and getting chairlifts, eating in mountain restaurants. Gets messy.

I just don't know but I think where you're going and what you're doing is more important a factor than that you're going abroad in itself?
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25-10-2020, 19:34   #43
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I don't know - would depend on what I was doing. Visiting a country with high prevalence and spending a lot of time in Ski bars and cable cars, yes. I wouldn't do this obviously.

Visiting a warm country with low prevalence (say greece early summer this year), staying in self catering and eating outside in restaurants would be low risk. Functionally little different to getting the train to Cork for a staycations.

In the middle, going to a country with same prevalence as us, staying in a hotel and getting chairlifts, eating in mountain restaurants. Gets messy.

I just don't know but I think where you're going and what you're doing is more important a factor than that you're going abroad in itself?
I think getting on a plane with other individuals and passing through airports and the commutre to and from airports is the issue, together with the general issue of not knowing who your contacts are or where they've been.
While where you are going to maybe relatively low risk you cannot say that your method of travel or those you travel with are low risk. All it takes are a few people on the flight to have come from/passed through a higher risk spot and the best laid plans are up in the air and very little you can do about it.
Never mind the heightened issues around travel insurance and/or actually getting/being sick with the virus while there or here just before you go etc...

So where you are going may not be the problem but the logistics around it may be.
Just not worth it for the next few months/years/whatever length of time.
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25-10-2020, 20:53   #44
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Yeah, I think when I was debating greece I figured it was a plane full of irish on the way out and back, and probably half full if even, and I figured that was no worse than the train.

I see what you're saying about airports, and obviously hubs would have a lot of through traffic but others wouldn't. I mean there's probably a difference between Heathrow and a small regional airport. But it's hard to quantify that.

Re plane travel in general, that study reported today in the irish times was literally the first confirmation I've seen of people getting it on the plane. I'm kind of surprised there haven't been more. I'd like to get the actual study as they often refer to the other literature or studies on the same topic. I mean you can see why it would be an issue - you're all sitting close together breathing recycled air. But it's also been suggested the filters might "clean" the air.

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Just not worth it for the next few months/years/whatever length of time.
Well that's a question I'm increasingly knowing the answer to. I mean we were all very scared of this virus at the start but even from the off the death rate looked to be about 2.5 - 5 per cent. Worth worrying about giving it to the population generally, and certainly worth avoiding but not worth losing sleep over.

But now i'll seems it's much lower, and if you take the elderly and people with underlying medical conditions, it's miniscule. There's a lot of controversy about this figure but I've heard as low as 0.05% if you're under 80 and have no underlying conditions.

If that is a realistic death rate I'm travelling. You can't live your life running from stuff like that. I'll quarantine if necessary and reasonable. It'd be worth it. I'm not going another year without a sun holiday and I'm very unlikely to miss skiing. We have to live.
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25-10-2020, 21:15   #45
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Yeah, I think when I was debating greece I figured it was a plane full of irish on the way out and back, and probably half full if even, and I figured that was no worse than the train.

I see what you're saying about airports, and obviously hubs would have a lot of through traffic but others wouldn't. I mean there's probably a difference between Heathrow and a small regional airport. But it's hard to quantify that.

Re plane travel in general, that study reported today in the irish times was literally the first confirmation I've seen of people getting it on the plane. I'm kind of surprised there haven't been more. I'd like to get the actual study as they often refer to the other literature or studies on the same topic. I mean you can see why it would be an issue - you're all sitting close together breathing recycled air. But it's also been suggested the filters might "clean" the air.



Well that's a question I'm increasingly knowing the answer to. I mean we were all very scared of this virus at the start but even from the off the death rate looked to be about 2.5 - 5 per cent. Worth worrying about giving it to the population generally, and certainly worth avoiding but not worth losing sleep over.

But now i'll seems it's much lower, and if you take the elderly and people with underlying medical conditions, it's miniscule. There's a lot of controversy about this figure but I've heard as low as 0.05% if you're under 80 and have no underlying conditions.

If that is a realistic death rate I'm travelling. You can't live your life running from stuff like that. I'll quarantine if necessary and reasonable. It'd be worth it. I'm not going another year without a sun holiday and I'm very unlikely to miss skiing. We have to live.
Yeah look, I can see the rationale in wanting a sun/ski holiday but personally with so little known about the virus, including long term effects, if any, I'd rather not get it at all or at least until a bit more is know about it. Each to their own on that I suppose.
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