How are the English different from us?

steddyeddy · 03-11-2015 1:07am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Irish love to talk and bury their dead very quickly in a ceremony that goes on for days.

The Irish also suffer from "small neighbour" syndrome.

ðŸ˜œ

I have no idea what small neighbour syndrome means.

BoltzmannBrain · 04-11-2015 2:22pm

We are all different!

BoltzmannBrain · 04-11-2015 2:23pm

I think Fratton Fred suffers from Small brain syndrome.

Uno my Uno. · 04-11-2015 3:14pm

In the most general of terms, my experience (having lived in the uk for a couple of years) is that the English are more reserved and show less emotion in everyday circumstances whereas the Irish are more expressive but much more socially conservative. I'm sure that this is related to the way in which England is a much more urban society than Ireland and the fact that Ireland is more rural and throughout the 19th and 20th centuries much more economically deprived.

So in Ireland it is ok to wear your heart on your sleeve but if you make any lifestyle choices that put you apart form the norm you can expect to be censured for them. Whereas in England nobody really cares what you get up to so long as you keep yourself to yourself.

The conservatism of Irish society expresses itself through gossip and I feel this is primarily a rural phenomenon. I'm from Dublin and whilst naturally gossip does occur in the city I am regularly shocked at the way gossip goes on when visiting my extended rural family. It would not be uncommon for an entire family to spend hours on a daily basis discussing and commenting on the affairs of everyone in their social and geographic circle. Everything from extra marital affairs to perceived social slights on nights out will be examined and tutted over. I can't stand it and couldn't live in that sort of environment. I have come to the conclusion that it comes from a lack of having anything better to do in the past and has now just become a sort of traditional pastime.

As for the Delay surrounding burials in the UK as far as I am aware this is purely a matter of logistics rather than any desire to put off the funeral. An English relative passed away last year and it was 10 days before arrangements could be made to have the grave opened and a (Catholic) service scheduled. I was very surprised but apparently that was the quickest it could be done.

LordSutch · 04-11-2015 8:00pm

The UK is one thing, while England & the English is another more precise topic!

The English (Those who might fly the St George Cross) are on the whole more reserved, more bullish, more polite, more angry, more chipper, more conservative, and more fun, when the spirits move them

They also take longer to become friends with, which results in more genuine friendships on the whole. < just my personal experience.

In other words, they're a total mixed bunch, just like us Irish.

Some of my best friends are English, good eggs all three of 'em.

PS; They go to bed earlier too.

InTheTrees · 05-11-2015 1:02am

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

As for the Delay surrounding burials in the UK as far as I am aware this is purely a matter of logistics rather than any desire to put off the funeral. An English relative passed away last year and it was 10 days before arrangements could be made to have the grave opened and a (Catholic) service scheduled. I was very surprised but apparently that was the quickest it could be done.

I was under the impression that the reason Catholic funerals are so soon after the death is that you don't want to leave the body unattended so logistically its best for the funeral to take place quickly, while Protestants will leave the body on ice for a week and nobody cares.

steddyeddy · 05-11-2015 12:36pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

I was under the impression that the reason Catholic funerals are so soon after the death is that you don't want to leave the body unattended so logistically its best for the funeral to take place quickly, while Protestants will leave the body on ice for a week and nobody cares.

I know plenty of protestant Scots who do a quick burial too.

Banjoxed · 08-11-2015 11:12am

InTheTrees wrote: »

I was under the impression that the reason Catholic funerals are so soon after the death is that you don't want to leave the body unattended so logistically its best for the funeral to take place quickly, while Protestants will leave the body on ice for a week and nobody cares.

No that's a load of cock. Protestant funerals in Ireland, North and South, happen as quickly as Catholic ones. Urban areas of Great Britain (not Northern Ireland) will have delays in funerals for purely logistical reasons, such as getting death certificates and crematoria spots.

InTheTrees · 08-11-2015 5:34pm

I see I was unclear. My point wasnt that Protestants dont have quick funerals, of course they do. But sometimes they dont. Attending the body is not important.

My point was to explain why catholics (usually) always do. Someone being with the body is important.

Of course I could be wrong. I'm from a protestant family. Living at the edge of the gaetacht too. SO when my old mum died last year, the people at the funeral home were wonderful but a little dismayed as we dithered and delayed and had her left alone in a box for five days while we assembled. The subject came up then naturally enough.

Peregrinus · 09-11-2015 8:28am

This isn't a Catholic/Protestant thing in my experience, so much as an English/Irish thing. (I have no idea how this works in Scotland.) And it was always my assumption - perhaps I was wrong - that English funerals happened so late because English bureaucratic procedures for this moved more slowly.

Of course, they will only move slowly if people tolerate that, and if English culture demanded early funerals then bureaucracy would move more rapidly. So presumably the English don' have a cultural preference for early funerals in the way that the Irish do.

I don't think this has anything to do with the notion that somebody must always be with the body. In the days before funeral homes and before most people died in hospital, someobody did always have to be with, or near to, the body because, hey, there it was in the front room, and what are you going to do about it? Park it in the garden shed? But nowadays only a minority of people die at home and bodies are left in funeral homes or hospital morgues without constant attendance from the family.

My perception, for what it's worth, is that the Irish habit of moving on briskly to the funeral arises out of a sense that the death of someone close to you is profound and devastating, and you can deal with nothing else until you have dealt with that, so funeral and mourning rituals must commence immediately, and must be everyone's priority while they continue. Hence, dead on Monday, removed on Tuesday, buried on Wednesday. It's not so much that the funeral is urgent, but that it's really, really important, and you can't really attend to anything else until you have attended to that.

The practice of sitting with the body, to the extent that it survives, is connected. It's not that the body needs to be sat with; it's that the bereaved need to confront what has happened to them, and to focus on it, and a helpful way of doing this is to spend time visiting or sitting with the dead person.

Balmed Out · 09-11-2015 9:25am

Been to four wakes all in Cork . Two Catholic, two Protestant. There wasn't any difference in timing or anything else.

Blueboggirl · 09-11-2015 10:48am

Was born and bought up by irish parents in London. Was involved in a massive Irish community here, from dancing, to traditional music, hurling etc. Our trad music teacher (quite prolific in Ireland and England) was quite frustrated and dismayed at his "english" students, who didn't want to 'stand' out infront of group. If he asked someone to stand up and play on their own they would rarely do it, he explained how in Ireland it was the opposite, students would jump at the chance. (maybe we all thought we were crap impostors!?) When he handed out a new sheet of music, I would ALWAYS quickly pencil in the notes, he once caught me and tried to help me by getting me to play bar by bar without writing them in, I was mortified. I'm still not over it.

blackbird 49 · 09-11-2015 10:58am

My mother was at a funeral in London back in September, it was her brother in law he had died 2weeks previous she was talking to the undertaker and asked him why funerals were so long to take place his reply was that most people want them held at the weekend so there is a back log to get a slot, don't know if it's true or it the same everywhere in the uk, I sometimes think the Irish bury their dead too quick

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2015 11:11am

Peregrinus wrote: »

This isn't a Catholic/Protestant thing in my experience, so much as an English/Irish thing. (I have no idea how this works in Scotland.) And it was always my assumption - perhaps I was wrong - that English funerals happened so late because English bureaucratic procedures for this moved more slowly.

Of course, they will only move slowly if people tolerate that, and if English culture demanded early funerals then bureaucracy would move more rapidly. So presumably the English don' have a cultural preference for early funerals in the way that the Irish do.

I don't think this has anything to do with the notion that somebody must always be with the body. In the days before funeral homes and before most people died in hospital, someobody did always have to be with, or near to, the body because, hey, there it was in the front room, and what are you going to do about it? Park it in the garden shed? But nowadays only a minority of people die at home and bodies are left in funeral homes or hospital morgues without constant attendance from the family.

My perception, for what it's worth, is that the Irish habit of moving on briskly to the funeral arises out of a sense that the death of someone close to you is profound and devastating, and you can deal with nothing else until you have dealt with that, so funeral and mourning rituals must commence immediately, and must be everyone's priority while they continue. Hence, dead on Monday, removed on Tuesday, buried on Wednesday. It's not so much that the funeral is urgent, but that it's really, really important, and you can't really attend to anything else until you have attended to that.

The practice of sitting with the body, to the extent that it survives, is connected. It's not that the body needs to be sat with; it's that the bereaved need to confront what has happened to them, and to focus on it, and a helpful way of doing this is to spend time visiting or sitting with the dead person.

We lost two people close to us just prior to Christmas, one in Ireland, one in England. Both had been having treatment for different forms of cancer.

In England, the coroner would not release the body until an autopsy was carried out and no one seemed to worry, due to the Christmas break, it was nearly three weeks before the funeral.

In Ireland, the family put themselves under further stress due to this belief that getting their mother buried asap was a necessity. It was interesting observing the two approaches.

Then there's the whole buriel/cremation thing.

Eugene Norman · 09-11-2015 8:06pm

blackbird 49 wrote: »

My mother was at a funeral in London back in September, it was her brother in law he had died 2weeks previous she was talking to the undertaker and asked him why funerals were so long to take place his reply was that most people want them held at the weekend so there is a back log to get a slot, don't know if it's true or it the same everywhere in the uk, I sometimes think the Irish bury their dead too quick

Yes we do. It's nonsense given the distances people have to travel.

DarkyHughes · 09-11-2015 11:44pm

Well after the 1973 Dublin bombings that killed 3 people & injured about 250 people. Then a year & half later the Dublin & Monaghan bombings happened. There was no wave of anti-British feeling going through the Free State (and how the Cosgrave administration handled it, it was a ****ing disgrace). We didn't lock up 4 innocent English people for the 73 bombings or 6 for the Dublin & Monaghan bombings compared the British response of setting up the Guildford 4 & B6 & Maguire 7 & also don't forget Judith Ward. And there was anti-Irish hysteria in England from far-right groups & & a large portion of the English public. That's a difference.

Fratton Fred · 10-11-2015 12:02am

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Well after the 1973 Dublin bombings that killed 3 people & injured about 250 people. Then a year & half later the Dublin & Monaghan bombings happened. There was no wave of anti-British feeling going through the Free State (and how the Cosgrave administration handled it, it was a ****ing disgrace). We didn't lock up 4 innocent English people for the 73 bombings or 6 for the Dublin & Monaghan bombings compared the British response of setting up the Guildford 4 & B6 & Maguire 7 & also don't forget Judith Ward. And there was anti-Irish hysteria in England from far-right groups & & a large portion of the English public. That's a difference.

Sounds like there's plenty of anti English hysteria around here.

Arsemageddon · 10-11-2015 12:49am

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Well after the 1973 Dublin bombings that killed 3 people & injured about 250 people. Then a year & half later the Dublin & Monaghan bombings happened. There was no wave of anti-British feeling going through the Free State (and how the Cosgrave administration handled it, it was a ****ing disgrace). We didn't lock up 4 innocent English people for the 73 bombings or 6 for the Dublin & Monaghan bombings compared the British response of setting up the Guildford 4 & B6 & Maguire 7 & also don't forget Judith Ward. And there was anti-Irish hysteria in England from far-right groups & & a large portion of the English public. That's a difference.

There was no anti-British feeling in the Republic in the 1970's!?

We burnt their frickin' embassy to the ground!

Jesus. · 10-11-2015 2:36am

Balmed Out wrote: »

Been to four wakes all in Cork . Two Catholic, two Protestant. There wasn't any difference in timing or anything else.

I've found that too. Prod or Taig, it just depends on the area as to what the local traditions are. Some parts of the Country have absolutely no drink whatsoever and its the same for both religions.

Stojkovic · 10-11-2015 10:52pm

Arsemageddon wrote: »

There was no anti-British feeling in the Republic in the 1970's!?

We burnt their frickin' embassy to the ground!

And a carbomb under the Ambassador.

Stojkovic · 10-11-2015 10:53pm

Arsemageddon wrote: »

There was no anti-British feeling in the Republic in the 1970's!?

We burnt their frickin' embassy to the ground!

And a carbomb under the Ambassador.

How are the English different from us?

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