Why aren't they in the Census?

manofthefora · 16-06-2020 10:02pm #1

My grandparents were married in 1900. They were both born and raised in Dublin City. They appear in the 1901 Census living together in Cabra.
Between then and 1910 they had three children and had moved to Clontarf where they lived for the rest of their lives.
But they don't appear at all in the 1911 Census.
I have searched their surname in Dublin for 1911 (580 entries!!) with no luck.
Also tried all other counties.

I conclude they were not included in the 1911 Census.
But I am curious as to the possible reasons for this.

My grandfather worked in a bank and was quite meticulous in all his paperwork.
Perhaps it was not uncommon for returns to go missing?

Any suggestions or comments appreciated.
MOTF

L1011 · 16-06-2020 10:05pm

Some areas are not transcribed.

Some transcriptions are awful.

Have you looked for the actual house in Clontarf, if they lived in the same place? The electoral registers may help there - https://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/advanced_new.php

crossman47 · 16-06-2020 10:06pm

I know at least one area in Dublin for which details were not put online (just a basic error). Do you know the street they lived on and have you browsed it? The name may not have been transcribed correctly. Another possibility (unlikely in 1911) is that they were out of the country or in another part of the country. Could they have been in a hotel somewhere? There are many possibilities.

emanresu · 16-06-2020 10:14pm

Have you tried all possible spelling variations, with and without apostrophes etc.
If he worked in a bank he was probably consistent with the spelling of the name, but it would be worth trying if you haven't done so already.
For example, a search for "Kenny" in Cork in 1911 shows 356 entries,
while "Kenney" shows a different 9 entries, with no overlaps between the two sets of results.

Hermy · 16-06-2020 10:15pm

Have you checked other sources for their address at that time such as Thom's Directories or electoral rolls?

Also, the census return for them may not have been transcribed but the image of the return may still be on the census website?

manofthefora · 16-06-2020 10:37pm

Thank you for those suggestions.
I wasn't aware of the online electoral registers but a few quick searches yielded nothing (but a very interesting resource).
Almost certainly they weren't either abroad in Ireland or further.
But if in a hotel (unlikely) they should normally have been counted.
I fear just a victim of the times. Not transcribed.
He had a very legible hand in the 1901 return so should have been readable.
MOTF

Hermy · 16-06-2020 10:38pm

I just searched the 1911 census for any bank workers living in Clontarf.

This may not be relevant to the OP but two things worth noting.

Firstly, there's a family in St. Laurence Road who put their surname in the forename box and their forename in the surname box.
If you can't find someone it's always worth entering their surname in the forename box and vice versa on the off chance.

Secondly, there's a family in Sea Road whose names are written in Irish which can sometimes complicate matters.

Roadtoad · 16-06-2020 10:47pm

Dirty weekend on the Isle of Mann?

SophieLockhart · 16-06-2020 11:02pm

Can't do much without the names.

pinkypinky · 16-06-2020 11:25pm

Lots of good suggestions here.

If you want to give us the names, we can try for you.

They are MUCH more likely to be there mistranscribed than not recorded.

spurious · 17-06-2020 1:24am

The surname instead of firstname and vice versa is more common than you would think given someone usually checked the returns at the door, as now.

** having nothing better to do and having finished my jigsaw, I took the info you have given and ran with it.

Would I be right that the family surname begins with an M?
If so, the man of the house appears on the electoral rolls for the Clontarf address. He is also listed in a copy of Porter's 1912 Guide and Directory to North Dublin which I have.
I suspect changes in the names of streets, or possibly confusion with a similarly named street elsewhere. Might be worth emailing them to get them to have a root down the back of a press.

manofthefora · 17-06-2020 9:29am

Thank you all again for those inputs.
Here is the couple in 1901 - CENSUS ENTRY
I tried reversing the names - no luck, but was amazed to see how many entries had the names reversed.
MOTF

Hermy · 17-06-2020 10:08am

The address given for the birth of their second child is Seapoint Terrace which doesn't appear to get a mention on the 1911 census returns.

EDIT: William E. Morgan Esq is listed at 3 Seapoint Terrace in the 1911 Thom's Directory.

Definitely worth checking with the National Archives for availability of hard copies of returns for the area missing from the website.

crossman47 · 17-06-2020 11:02am

To illustrate what can happen, I was searching for a family on St. Brigids Road, Drumcondra. I found them in 1911 but the road is not online for 1901. Maybe it was built after 1901 but a series of roads do not appear in 1901 in Drumcondra and the family in question do not appear elsewhere in 1901.

L1011 · 17-06-2020 11:51am

crossman47 wrote: »

To illustrate what can happen, I was searching for a family on St. Brigids Road, Drumcondra. I found them in 1911 but the road is not online for 1901. Maybe it was built after 1901 but a series of roads do not appear in 1901 in Drumcondra and the family in question do not appear elsewhere in 1901.

Much of that area of Drumcondra was developed 1902-3 - don't know about that road specifically but my parents old house in the general area was 1903. Its not on the 1895 map (the hospital there is the NCBI now so it would have been just in frame)

There's a gap in free Thoms online for the city from 1892-1912 annoyingly.

pinkypinky · 17-06-2020 3:22pm

Call the duty archivist and explain the issue. I bet they're just not on the website.

I had a very similar issue and wrote a blog about it here:
https://cbgenealogy.ie/?p=458

Hermy · 17-06-2020 3:24pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Call the duty archivist and explain the issue. I bet they're just not on the website.

+1

As stated above Seapoint Terrace isn't listed on the website but may well exist in hard copy.

manofthefora · 17-06-2020 7:35pm

Thanks Hermy.
That's him in Seapoint Terrace in both 1909 and 1911.
I think Seapoint Terrace was a short section of Vernon Avenue in Clontarf.
Will do as suggested and check if the Census return just isn't online.
MOTF

ath262 · 17-06-2020 7:49pm

according to Thom's 1935 Seapoint Terrace became numbers 216 to 218 Clontarf Road

manofthefora · 17-06-2020 10:23pm

Looks like they have been replaced by the Vernon Court block of flats

MOTF

Hermy · 17-06-2020 11:00pm

I think this is Seapoint Terrace as Thom's lists just three entries and it corresponds with 218 Clontarf Road.

I reckon only the left most of the three was removed to make way for Vernon Court.

see link

manofthefora · 18-06-2020 3:24pm

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Thread closed.
MOTF

Why aren't they in the Census?

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