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View Poll Results: Who Will The Dems pick in 2020
Harris 51 6.09%
Bernie 205 24.46%
Clinton 27 3.22%
Brooker 8 0.95%
Biden 352 42.00%
Gillbrand 6 0.72%
Oprah! 41 4.89%
Warren 85 10.14%
Klobuchar 7 0.84%
Michelle Obama 44 5.25%
Cuomo 12 1.43%
Voters: 838. You may not vote on this poll

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12-09-2020, 16:23   #6301
TomOnBoard
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Yesterday's 9/11 anniversary crystallised 2 particular points that I believe the Biden/Harris campaign needs to hammer home:

1. The Covid death toll is estimated to amount to between 1 and 3 total 9/11 death tolls EVERY WEEK by October
2. While the original 9/11 deaths were caused by foreign terrorists, many if not most of the current death toll are caused by a failed administration that is reponsible for negligent homicide on a grand scale...
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12-09-2020, 16:29   #6302
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Originally Posted by TomOnBoard View Post
Yesterday's 9/11 anniversary crystallised 2 particular points that I believe the Biden/Harris campaign needs to hammer home:

1. The Covid death toll is estimated to amount to between 1 and 3 total 9/11 death tolls EVERY WEEK by October
2. While the original 9/11 deaths were caused by foreign terrorists, many if not most of the current death toll are caused by a failed administration that is reponsible for negligent homicide on a grand scale...
Disagree. As someone that lived through 9/11 including knowing people killed in it, I'd be against being reminded of it as some sort of set of numbers to make Covid-19 deaths seem worse. 9/11 was really REALLY bad, watching the towers burn for days was bad, smelling it in downtown NYC was really bad.

Making political hay from it is really bad. We know. We remember.
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12-09-2020, 16:50   #6303
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Disagree. As someone that lived through 9/11 including knowing people killed in it, I'd be against being reminded of it as some sort of set of numbers to make Covid-19 deaths seem worse. 9/11 was really REALLY bad, watching the towers burn for days was bad, smelling it in downtown NYC was really bad.

Making political hay from it is really bad. We know. We remember.
I am not for a moment advocating any disrespect towards those who died in 9/11. Most people were impacted by that horror.

However, it serves as a reminder of how we felt as a result of that horror that has, thankfully not been repeated in terms of death toll in the US, although it has been repeated thousands of times in places like Iraq as a result of a failed revenge policy.

Many of us are living through Covid right now! I have elderly relatives in Florida who are just waiting for the axe to fall. Their generation is being decimated, as are younger minorities whose lives and health status leaves them highly vulnerable.

After 9/11 there were all kinds of inquiries and commissions to establish the full facts. People like yourself who were clearly affected demanded information on a slew of factors, not least of which was the culpability of the Government for failures in preparedness and in intelligence. The CIA/FBI knew about Bin Laden for years and absolutely failed to adequately manage his threat. And they were rightly called out on it and improvements were made. Indeed, whole swathes of normal life were upended after the enactment of the Patriot Act. Whole industries such as the TSA grew out of the response to 9/11.

So, I don't see at all why an acknowledged deliberate policy of downplaying the risk and actively undermining public health efforts to combat Covid and plan for its containment ought not to be compared with the most recent prior tragedy to befall Americans. To not draw such comparisons would be to dishonour all the un-necessary deaths that resulted from deliberate policies of this US President.
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12-09-2020, 16:52   #6304
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Originally Posted by TomOnBoard View Post
Yesterday's 9/11 anniversary crystallised 2 particular points that I believe the Biden/Harris campaign needs to hammer home:

1. The Covid death toll is estimated to amount to between 1 and 3 total 9/11 death tolls EVERY WEEK by October
2. While the original 9/11 deaths were caused by foreign terrorists, many if not most of the current death toll are caused by a failed administration that is reponsible for negligent homicide on a grand scale...
Politicising both the 9/11 and covid deaths.

Classy
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12-09-2020, 17:13   #6305
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Originally Posted by TomOnBoard View Post
Yesterday's 9/11 anniversary crystallised 2 particular points that I believe the Biden/Harris campaign needs to hammer home:

1. The Covid death toll is estimated to amount to between 1 and 3 total 9/11 death tolls EVERY WEEK by October
2. While the original 9/11 deaths were caused by foreign terrorists, many if not most of the current death toll are caused by a failed administration that is reponsible for negligent homicide on a grand scale...
I think doing that would come across as crass personally. While numbers wise it may be an accurate comparison, I think politicising 9/11 is a step too far.
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12-09-2020, 17:14   #6306
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Politicising both the 9/11 and covid deaths.

Classy
Well the COVID-19 deaths and the handling of the pandemic are a political issue because they are/and will play into people’s political decisions for the election in November.
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12-09-2020, 17:15   #6307
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Well the COVID-19 deaths and the handling of the pandemic are a political issue because they are/and will play into people’s political decisions for the election in November.
Joe should campaign on "a 9/11 every week"

Distasteful is an under statement
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12-09-2020, 17:20   #6308
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Joe should campaign on "a 9/11 every week"

Distasteful is an under statement
The Biden and Harris campaign should hold the president to account for his failings around COVID-19 because he like other world leaders had a chance if not to stop the virus entering their counties, they had a chance to limit the spread. Donald trump has done an awful job at that on a federal level but I’m sure there’s a better comparison(none will be good) that will highlight the scale of the pandemic but 9/11 should not be used imo.
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12-09-2020, 17:20   #6309
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Joe should campaign on "a 9/11 every week"

Distasteful is an under statement
He should on the other hand campaign on Trump's failure to respond adequately on covid. This includes the fact he held events during the peak of the pandemic and discouraged wearing masks..
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12-09-2020, 17:21   #6310
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Joe should campaign on "a 9/11 every week"

Distasteful is an under statement
I’m saying he shouldn’t say that. I’m not where that quote is from but it most certainly isn’t from the post of mine you’re quoting.
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12-09-2020, 17:31   #6311
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The Biden and Harris campaign should hold the president to account for his failings around COVID-19 because he like other world leaders had a chance if not to stop the virus entering their counties, they had a chance to limit the spread. Donald trump has done an awful job at that on a federal level but I’m sure there’s a better comparison(none will be good) that will highlight the scale of the pandemic but 9/11 should not be used imo.
The 10th amendment of the United states constitution

The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, included in the original Bill of Rights, states that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” As University of Texas law professor Bobby Chesney has recently reminded us, the states are independent entities within our system of federalism, not mere subordinate jurisdictions of the national government. In areas reserved to the states, he says, the federal government “cannot coerce the states into taking actions to suit federal policy preference.”


Governor Cuomo should be held responsible. His mismanagement in New York allowed the virus to spread rapidly.
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12-09-2020, 18:33   #6312
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There are many comparisons that could be used for sure that would alll demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the death toll that has already been suffered by the American people, much of which (and clearly not all) can be laid at Trump's door.

With a Covid death toll SO FAR since March of approx. 200,000, examples of these include the following in terms of deaths of US Military combat personnel in wars:

Almost 70% of US combat deaths during World War II
Over twice the Confederate army deaths in the Civil War and 1.5 times the Union deaths. Almost 100% of the complete total of deaths in both armies.
Almost 4 times the US combat deaths in WWI
6 times the US deaths in Korea
Over twice the Vietnam War toll of US young (mostly) men
…..

Do any of these comparisons fail some test of what is an acceptable number to use? A 9/11 comparison is entirely appropriate in my view, as I made it on the occasion of the 19th Anniversary of that horror.

On the question of whether Biden/Harris should make any such comparison, I also believe that it is entirely appropriate to set the self-confessed manipulation of the extent and lethality of the Covid pandemic by this President in context of the numbers dead and dying, the extent of which is appalling.

Yesterday:

Covid deaths in the US: 1,000 +
Covid deaths next door in Canada: ZERO

Any Presidential candidate (incumbent or challenger) who fails to probe this and explain to the electorate the gravity of the entire picture is not worthy of the job.
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12-09-2020, 18:34   #6313
ExMachina1000
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Originally Posted by TomOnBoard View Post
There are many comparisons that could be used for sure that would alll demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the death toll that has already been suffered by the American people, much of which (and clearly not all) can be laid at Trump's door.

With a Covid death toll SO FAR since March of approx. 200,000, examples of these include the following in terms of deaths of US Military combat personnel in wars:

Almost 70% of US combat deaths during World War II
Over twice the Confederate army deaths in the Civil War and 1.5 times the Union deaths. Almost 100% of the complete total of deaths in both armies.
Almost 4 times the US combat deaths in WWI
6 times the US deaths in Korea
Over twice the Vietnam War toll of US young (mostly) men
…..

Do any of these comparisons fail some test of what is an acceptable number to use? A 9/11 comparison is entirely appropriate in my view, as I made it on the occasion of the 19th Anniversary of that horror.

On the question of whether Biden/Harris should make any such comparison, I also believe that it is entirely appropriate to set the self-confessed manipulation of the extent and lethality of the Covid pandemic by this President in context of the numbers dead and dying, the extent of which is appalling.

Yesterday:

Covid deaths in the US: 1,000 +
Covid deaths next door in Canada: ZERO

Any Presidential candidate (incumbent or challenger) who fails to probe this and explain to the electorate the gravity of the entire picture is not worthy of the job.
Governors run their own states as per the constitution
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12-09-2020, 19:27   #6314
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Joe should campaign on "a 9/11 every week"

Distasteful is an under statement
So you think he'd have a chance at swinging some of the trump base then or does it not reach that level?
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12-09-2020, 19:29   #6315
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Governors run their own states as per the constitution
Completely disingenuous as always
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