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View Poll Results: Who Will The Dems pick in 2020
Harris 51 6.09%
Bernie 205 24.46%
Clinton 27 3.22%
Brooker 8 0.95%
Biden 352 42.00%
Gillbrand 6 0.72%
Oprah! 41 4.89%
Warren 85 10.14%
Klobuchar 7 0.84%
Michelle Obama 44 5.25%
Cuomo 12 1.43%
Voters: 838. You may not vote on this poll

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21-08-2020, 23:00   #5701
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He has something to hide. It is hypocritical that he's hiding that and his taxes but demanded Obama's birth cert. That is one of the signs he is more cunning than Biden.
Is cunning a euphemism for being a liar?
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21-08-2020, 23:08   #5702
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Is cunning a euphemism for being a liar?
And a racist.
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21-08-2020, 23:19   #5703
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This is where you've lost me.

You're agreeing that even though the EU had an initially haphazard approach (for many reasons - most notably because it had to be handled on a per-government basis and also Europe was hit before the US) it still had a better response to the US.

You agree that despite the recent surges it continues to be better than the US.

You agree that Obama made the correct precautionary moves to protect against this, and they Trump exacerbated the situation by dismantling that.

And yet you disagree and say Trump did as good a job as anyone could be expected to?

I'm also a little confused about how Europe, with it's better overall handling of the virus, somehow made the US response *worse*. If you review the totality of the US response to covid I think you'll draw a radically different conclusion on those last two points. Trump spent months denying the severity of covid and had battled against most measures to prevent the spread - including trying to *reduce* testing.
Yes, yes and yes.

Allow me to clarify: even if he had let the disease centre be, Trump's reaction would have been the same. I suspect that anyone else as President would have been caught out initially by how fast it spread and how dangerous it is. I think there was no way to stop it reaching the US. The slow initial reaction by Europe to the seriousness of the outbreaks lulled a number of countries into complacency - we allowed flights from the epicenter in Northern Italy to fly into Dublin for an abandoned rugby game. The US followed suit.

The subsequent reaction to the virus would have been different (reduced infection/mortality rate) but with vastly different economic consequences (greater job losses and business collapses along with greater supply chain/food insecurity). Trump chose to reduce the economic impact. He preserved the economy and his ego at the expense of allowing the virus to spread and kill 175k people. He might even see it as a tool to reduce the number of Biden voters.

Thankfully some state governors have stepped up to the plate to reduce the impact. Wisconsin's was one that eventually locked the state down after a court ruling ordered him not to. Co-ordination with a different president would likely have been better.

Europe's response has not been good overall. Like the US free movement was allowed for too long and there was inadequate medical supplies despite pre-pandemic reports suggesting Europe was ready for an outbreak (Ireland's influenza pandemic plans are dated 2007). Eastern Europe was spared the worst of it due to its lower levels of airline connectivity and its NATO members biological warfare training, making Europe's response appear better overall.

Ireland's haphazard lockdowns, reopening of borders and green lists are not helpful. Turkey has been more successful in reducing the spread of covid but is not on the green list while Spain, Italy and Greece are. And we are allowing flights from Texas while New York does not. Our government are just less blatant about making money and throwing people under the bus than the US.

Comparing the reactions is like comparing the Chinese and US responses to aid requests. The Chinese sent sub-par equipment at extortionate prices made in factories repurposed thanks to tax breaks by unqualified workers that been churning out plastic toys days before while the US told everyone to fend for themselves while requisitioning a plane full of medicine at gunpoint from an airstrip in Thailand that was already paid for by Germany.
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21-08-2020, 23:27   #5704
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Cunning?

Really?

You're going with "cunning"?

He's a coward, a bully and a hypocrite.
He is all of the above. Racist too. He is still cunning.

While currently trying to print money to prop up the economy, buy votes and paper over the covid numbers but is not addressing the danger posed by hyperinflation or how corporations are actually spending the money to enrich themselves.

Instead, he is blaming the Democrats for holding up a stimulus bill that wants to put money in the hands of the average American.
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21-08-2020, 23:28   #5705
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Yes, yes and yes.

Allow me to clarify: even if he had let the disease centre be, Trump's reaction would have been the same. I suspect that anyone else as President would have been caught out initially by how fast it spread and how dangerous it is. I think there was no way to stop it reaching the US. The slow initial reaction by Europe to the seriousness of the outbreaks lulled a number of countries into complacency - we allowed flights from the epicenter in Northern Italy to fly into Dublin for an abandoned rugby game. The US followed suit.

The subsequent reaction to the virus would have been different (reduced infection/mortality rate) but with vastly different economic consequences (greater job losses and business collapses along with greater supply chain/food insecurity). Trump chose to reduce the economic impact. He preserved the economy and his ego at the expense of allowing the virus to spread and kill 175k people. He might even see it as a tool to reduce the number of Biden voters.

Thankfully some state governors have stepped up to the plate to reduce the impact. Wisconsin's was one that eventually locked the state down after a court ruling ordered him not to. Co-ordination with a different president would likely have been better.

Europe's response has not been good overall. Like the US free movement was allowed for too long and there was inadequate medical supplies despite pre-pandemic reports suggesting Europe was ready for an outbreak (Ireland's influenza pandemic plans are dated 2007). Eastern Europe was spared the worst of it due to its lower levels of airline connectivity and its NATO members biological warfare training, making Europe's response appear better overall.

Ireland's haphazard lockdowns, reopening of borders and green lists are not helpful. Turkey has been more successful in reducing the spread of covid but is not on the green list while Spain, Italy and Greece are. And we are allowing flights from Texas while New York does not. Our government are just less blatant about making money and throwing people under the bus than the US.

Comparing the reactions is like comparing the Chinese and US responses to aid requests. The Chinese sent sub-par equipment at extortionate prices made in factories repurposed thanks to tax breaks by unqualified workers that been churning out plastic toys days before while the US told everyone to fend for themselves while requisitioning a plane full of medicine at gunpoint from an airstrip in Thailand that was already paid for by Germany.
All due respect, this is nonsense.

A democratic president would not have asked people to inject bleach.

A democratic president would not have sidelined scientists.

A democratic president would not downplayed the seriousness.

A democratic president would not have made it a political issue.

A democratic president would not have put the economy over people's health.

It's the same pro-Trump strategy of debating.

Say Trump's actions were bad, as if to admit Trump's flaws adds credibility, but then go on to say that other people would be as bad or worse.

It's transparent, monotonous and it's ineffective.
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21-08-2020, 23:37   #5706
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Forget the "democratic" moniker, any standard president from either party would have handled the various crises more ably and with more dignity than Trump. Any of his opponents on the 2016 Primary circuit would have been better equipped to deal with the cut and thrust of American leadership, because ultimately, foundationally, Trump is not a leader.
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21-08-2020, 23:38   #5707
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It's the same pro-Trump strategy of debating.
I like how you insinuate I'm pro-Trump.
I think he will win against Biden.
That doesn't mean I like him or want him to win.

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A democratic president would not have asked people to inject bleach.

A democratic president would not have sidelined scientists.

A democratic president would not downplayed the seriousness.

A democratic president would not have made it a political issue.

It's the same pro-Trump strategy of debating.
A democratic president would have reacted just as slowly initially.
After that, the above would not have been issues.

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A democratic president would not have put the economy over people's health
Ultimately if pressed a democratic president would have placed the economy over people's lives. But they would have been less blase about exposing people to danger.
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21-08-2020, 23:44   #5708
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Originally Posted by Stormington View Post
I like how you insinuate I'm pro-Trump.
I think he will win against Biden.
That doesn't mean I like him or want him to win.


A democratic president would have reacted just as slowly initially.
After that, the above would not have been issues.


Ultimately if pressed a democratic president would have placed the economy over people's lives. But they would have been less blase about exposing people to danger.
Yet again....

"Say Trump's actions were bad, as if to admit Trump's flaws adds credibility, but then go on to say that other people would be as bad or worse"
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21-08-2020, 23:52   #5709
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I like how you insinuate I'm pro-Trump.
I think he will win against Biden.
That doesn't mean I like him or want him to win.


A democratic president would have reacted just as slowly initially.
After that, the above would not have been issues.


Ultimately if pressed a democratic president would have placed the economy over people's lives. But they would have been less blase about exposing people to danger.
Well it’s hardly an unreasonable opinion. You take issue with trump while saying that other countries were as bad with COVID-19. Yes, many countries were caught on the hop but the difference between the vast majority of countries is they pivoted and got a handle on it.
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22-08-2020, 00:08   #5710
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https://twitter.com/travisakers/stat...988465153?s=19

*This* is the line up for Trump's convention.

Think I may give it a miss.
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22-08-2020, 00:12   #5711
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You take issue with trump while saying that other countries were as bad with COVID-19.
Someone brought up the US handling of Covid and I wanted to point Europe was not as bad as Trump's handing of it. Not good by any means, but not as bad. And we're not out of the woods yet. I suspect there will be another large lockdown later in the year.

It's quite easy to be dismissive of him, and I thought he would not survive the first term. I think that is dangerous - he's smarter than I gave him credit for initially and it would be wise not to underestimate him and the tricks he'll pull (postal votes, gerrymandering, felony non-voters, voting booths in small buildings).

I also started my contribution it by saying the odds on Trump were quite high. My thinking is if you don't like the result, you can soften the blow by betting on the outcome and making a few quid.
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22-08-2020, 00:13   #5712
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https://twitter.com/travisakers/stat...988465153?s=19

*This* is the line up for Trump's convention.

Think I may give it a miss.
Mitch McConnell has confirmed he’s not being there hasn’t he ?

I see the only living GOP president and First Lady aren’t there at all. The top order looks like a gambini crime family.
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22-08-2020, 00:14   #5713
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As long as Space Race 2 is moving along the likes of Musk and Bezos will provide humanity with a Plan B.

The American empire may be coming to an end. The republic that replaces it will certainly look different but meaningful change may not happen until after we are gone.
The Delta Clipper, DC-X was doing vertical landings back in 1993. Back when US firms were doing engineering.

Musk's employees have improved on it. By taking the low tech approach of good engineering and using bigger rockets rather than harder to handle propellants.

Bezos hasn't even made it to orbit. He owns the Washington Post and that ruffles Trump's feathers. So hobbling the US Postal Service will make things more difficult for Amazon and so Trump wins against the richest man or so the theory goes



In the US the new CEO's realised they could make a quick buck by cutting R&D costs, outsourcing everything and freewheel on the current product range until it became obsolete. And then it's a downward death spiral since the coffers were already emptied for the shareholders.

Make America Great Again.
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22-08-2020, 00:47   #5714
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https://twitter.com/travisakers/stat...988465153?s=19

*This* is the line up for Trump's convention.

Think I may give it a miss.
They could at least get Ted Nugent to ride in on an animatronic bull and play Cat Scratch Fever. That list is grim. They're a rung or two away from David Duke speaking.
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22-08-2020, 04:52   #5715
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Can't wait for the GOP powers to someday realise that Haley isn't that popular with the base whatsoever. I expect she gets a prominent slot and she will ramble about Venezuela, socialism, free markets and basically the joys of Zombie Reganism.

The big omissions seem to be Crenshaw, Cotton and especially Hawley.

Last edited by Rjd2; 22-08-2020 at 04:56.
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