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28-11-2019, 14:55   #46
meijin
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Originally Posted by Curious1002 View Post
This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though so are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.
because it clearly is a penalisation for you not paying the higher rent when asked - but you need to present a story that will prove that, so all the steps leading to the termination notice
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28-11-2019, 14:57   #47
AlmightyCushion
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1. How do you know the landlord has other similar properties?
2. Can you prove this?
3. Can you prove that these properties are becoming available?

If the answer to 2 and 3 is yes then I imagine it would strengthen your case as it would help prove the landlord needs to evict you to house his/her daughter.
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28-11-2019, 15:24   #48
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Originally Posted by AlmightyCushion View Post
1. How do you know the landlord has other similar properties?
2. Can you prove this?
3. Can you prove that these properties are becoming available?

If the answer to 2 and 3 is yes then I imagine it would strengthen your case as it would help prove the landlord needs to evict you to house his/her daughter.
Meijin, i am going to present a timeline with clear evidence of each individual interaction with LL with recordings, text, emails, letters, etc. I will make sure to do it in a very simple, truthful and clear way.

AlmightyCushion, i have a proof about points 1,2 and 3. I have a doc (can't name it as his team may read this tread) which LL forwarded to me (hahaha, yep, he did it himself in Feb, probably accidentally or in plain stupidity) proving the ownership of the whole development.
I also found a previous case against him on the RTB site from this year where I learnt that his son owns 35 more apts. You can't make that up it's like the evidence is presented to me on a silver tray!

So yes, I can prove everything. I live here for over 2 years and see moving vans very often, in average once a motnh but sometimes even more often. I always make sure to be friends with all the neighbours and they share with me when they moved in and how the LL deals with them. They are nice people. If necessary I will call them as witnesses but I am a little worried that LL will use them as a punching bag after I am gone and do the same to them what he does to me. I dont want to throw those people under the bus so I want to check with the FLAC solicitor next Wednesday if I can submit statements from my neighbours and cover their names so the LL has no clue who they are.

Last edited by Curious1002; 28-11-2019 at 15:32.
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28-11-2019, 15:31   #49
AlmightyCushion
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Meijin, i am going to present a timeline with clear evidence of each individual interaction with LL with recordings, text, emails, letters, etc. I will make sure to do it is a very simple, truthful and clear way.

AlmightyCushion, i have proof about points 1,2 and 3. I have a doc (can't name it as his team may read this tread) which LL forwarded to me (hahaha, yep, he did it himself in Feb, probably accidentally or in plain stupidity) proving the ownership of the whole development.
I also found a previous case against him on the RTB site from this year where I learnt that his son owns 35 more apts. You can't make that up it's like the evidence is presented to me on a silver tray!

So yes, I can proof everything. I live here for over 2 years and see moving vans very often, in average once a motnh but sometimes even more often. I always make sure to be friends with all the neighbours and they share with me when they moved in and how the LL deals with them. They are nice people. If necessary I will call them as witnesses but I am a little worried that LL will use them as a punching bag after I am gone and do the same to them what he does to me. I dont want to throw those people under the bus so I want to check with the FLAC solicitor next Wednesday if I can submit statements from my neighbours and cover their names so the LL has no clue who they are.
You should set an alert up on daft that picks up units in the development. Then you can get screenshots of when the different apartments in the building go up and Daft. It wouldn't look great for the landlord if they are saying they need your apartment for their daughter when the one just down the hall that is practically identical to yours was up on Daft for rent in the intervening period.
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28-11-2019, 15:43   #50
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Originally Posted by AlmightyCushion View Post
You should set an alert up on daft that picks up units in the development. Then you can get screenshots of when the different apartments in the building go up and Daft. It wouldn't look great for the landlord if they are saying they need your apartment for their daughter when the one just down the hall that is practically identical to yours was up on Daft for rent in the intervening period.
I did it this morning. I remember i found a few apts on Daft last year when I was looking for a new place for a friend of mine. I found 2 apts from my development but they didnt have any pics attached and they disappeared from the page pretty quickly. They didnt have a gate or an apt. number, just a vague street name but i recognised them by my LL's phone number and his name.
Not sure how Daft works but it looks like there are no archive adverts so I could search.
It would be great to have Dart postings but i think more reliable are my own neighbours who will give me a shout when things go fishy in my apt after i am gone.

Let's not forget that one of my neighbours has already confirmed with me that his apt will be free in April, exactly when I become homeless. Yet another proof to submit to the RTB hearing.
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28-11-2019, 15:51   #51
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You have all your evidence, the LL needs to show the notice was valid, and his daughter moved in.

I don’t think the LL is required to offer you an alternative property if he legally terminated a Part 4 tenancy. Nor do I think the RTB can influence what property the daughter “needs”, the LL has to show that his daughter needs accommodation, which presumably will be borne out by her moving in.

As long as the daughter moves in after termination with a valid notice, where do you see an offence?

Last edited by Dav010; 28-11-2019 at 16:11.
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28-11-2019, 16:12   #52
meijin
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As long as the daughter moves in after termination with a valid notice, where do you see an offence?
it's explained here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2...nacted/en/html

(3) Such action may constitute penalisation even though it consists of steps taken by the landlord in the exercise of any rights conferred on him or her by or under this Act, any other enactment or the lease or tenancy agreement concerned
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28-11-2019, 16:28   #53
Curious1002
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I know that there are some people here, possible landlords themselves, who try to discourage me from opening a dispute with RTB. I appreciate their efforts and big thanks to them for the input as I have a better picture now of what potential defense will be used by my LL's team at the hearing.

The point is that there are good LLs and there are shady LLs, the same goes for tenants. I know who I have been dealing with (LL) and that I haven't done anything wrong. For me that's enough to dispute the notice that from the technical side may look valid. But as you now know, there is more to this case.
I am ready to have my name published but at least my LL's "operations" will be exposed too. I will not be shy from disclosing all evidence at the hearing and it will be rather embarrassing for LL. Yes, I may lose the case anyway and end up with the Dublin Simon Homeless Community, but I will definitely not go down easily. I only wish more shady LL's were exposed and that the tenants fought for their rights all the way.
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28-11-2019, 16:41   #54
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I hope it all works out for you.

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Originally Posted by Curious1002 View Post
...
…and to all those who ask why no lease. At the beginning when my LL and I were on good civilised terms, I asked him about it and he said that it’s too much work. He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. I got his bank details but after a few months of asking. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.....
But hes only able to operate like this because people do business with him, knowing the problems with it. I accept that people feel they have no choice.
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28-11-2019, 17:08   #55
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what about moving her in to any of the empty identical apts in the same development?
or
what about the LL's lack of attempts to offer me a substitute apt while there are or will be empty soon.

This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though they are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.
I suspect “requires for occupation by a family member” is sufficiently broad so as not to permit the RTB to forbid the landlord from identifying your apartment. Likewise it has no power to make him rehome you. I have no doubt that the TTB will rightly make an adverse inference that your apartment has been chosen for a different reason. However, unless you can establish through fact or induced testimony from the landlord or his family member that the housing need is not genuine, I suspect you will not have strong chances.
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28-11-2019, 17:17   #56
Curious1002
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Contact Threshold or the Mercy Law Centre and they should have that info. to hand.
I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.


Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?
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28-11-2019, 18:00   #57
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I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.


Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?
One case that will be relevant for you is Duniyva in the HC, the LL was successful but the judge did make remarks about the meaning of requires for family member.
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28-11-2019, 18:10   #58
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I live in Dublin in a Rent Pressure Zone for 2 years and 1 month (there was never any lease agreement in place).

My landlord has 30 apartments in my building where at least 1 apt becomes available each month (people are moving in and out all the time). My landlord's son owns 35 more apartments nearby
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Originally Posted by Curious1002 View Post
He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.
Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.
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28-11-2019, 18:14   #59
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Why no lease? This guy has 30 apartments and his son 35 of same? Sounds like this is a letting business that would be familiar with all the normal paperwork?? Doesn't add up.
I'm sure he's more than familiar.
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28-11-2019, 18:18   #60
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Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.
Oh don't mention revenue, all landlords are fully tax compliant don't you know.
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