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Reims Cessna Replacement~Irish Air Corps

Comments

  • #2
    Silvera
    Registered Users Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭Silvera


    Good to finally see movement on the Cessna replacement - long awaited.

    Options?
    - Pilatus PC-12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12
    - Cessna 208 Grand Caravan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_208_Caravan

    Comparison - a Cessna Caravan parked between 2 x PC-12's...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12#/media/File:Pilatus_PC-12-45_AN2111330.jpg


  • #3
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Psychlops wrote: »
    Overseas deployment?
    More skills development I would think. And cash / explosive escorts.


  • #4
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Finally. I had really hoped we'd see a tender last year.

    The PC-12 Spectre is a great little machine.

    The crashed PC-9 replacement should be delivered soon too.


  • #5
    Silvera
    Registered Users Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭Silvera


    On the face of it the Pilatus PC-12 would be the obvious choice - given the powerplant and avionics similarity to the PC-9M.


  • #6
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Silvera wrote: »
    Good to finally see movement on the Cessna replacement - long awaited.

    Options?
    - Pilatus PC-12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12
    - Cessna 208 Grand Caravan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_208_Caravan

    Comparison - a Cessna Caravan parked between 2 x PC-12's...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12#/media/File:Pilatus_PC-12-45_AN2111330.jpg

    The requirement to be pressurised means it won't be a Caravan.

    PC-12 is a far more capable aircraft.

    Hopefully they will have the first one delivered within 12 months.


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  • #7
    Blue House Bear
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 ✭Blue House Bear


    Insert generic...."Why can we not get some jets" comments?!


  • #8
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Victor wrote: »
    More skills development I would think. And cash / explosive escorts.

    Think they've dropped the cash overflights for the most part. Given the new WP does talk about Oversea operations we might see some deployment.


  • #9
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Finally. I had really hoped we'd see a tender last year.

    The PC-12 Spectre is a great little machine.

    The crashed PC-9 replacement should be delivered soon too.

    With the extra capital outlay of the P64 I'm not surprised it slipped.


  • #10
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Blue House Bear wrote: »
    Insert generic...."Why can we not get some jets" comments?!

    I don't care about jets but I would like to see a properly resourced air corps, especially in the wake of the Rescue 112 disaster.


  • #11
    Blue House Bear
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 ✭Blue House Bear


    The comment was tongue in cheek but I do get your point.

    By the way it was Rescue 116.


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  • #12
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Looks like they'll make an announcement about the PC-12s today.

    https://facebook.com/IrlAirCorps/photos/a.280110362016594.81601.148942718466693/2023923354301944/?type=3


  • #13
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The contracts have now been signed.

    https://twitter.com/campaign4kehoe/status/943139815335387138

    Air Corps to spend €32m on new aircraft to act as 'an eye in the sky'


    Three Pilatus PC-12 NG are on order.


  • #14
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A very capable machine. Reliable as well. A much needed boost. Now they need to get some jet aircraft. I suggest the scorpion would be a good choice. About 8 seems like the right number. And one or two of that new military transport aircraft that Embraer have launched....for support of overseas ops.


  • #15
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    A very capable machine. Reliable as well. A much needed boost. Now they need to get some jet aircraft. I suggest the scorpion would be a good choice. About 8 seems like the right number. And one or two of that new military transport aircraft that Embraer have launched....for support of overseas ops.

    The Scorpions (and the Embraer) are still in development with no actual service data or history, why in god's name should we end up doing that again? Anything the AC buys should be a proven, supported mature design with a large customer/support base. Not a first of it's type buy.


  • #16
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    It's true that there might be an element of risk with the scorpion from that point of view all right. But the component parts are well proven. Air Corps were the launch customer for the military version of the AW139 and that went OK . Could probably get a killer deal off Textron to get the machine into service. They have started the first limited production run now and it has done well on flights to date with almost 100% despatch rate. Low running and acquisition costs to boot and a twin engine as well. I thought the Embraer had entered service by now. Lots of orders for it in the bag already. One hell of a sexy beast that scorpion


  • #17
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    It's true that there might be an element of risk with the scorpion from that point of view all right. But the component parts are well proven. Air Corps were the launch customer for the military version of the AW139 and that went OK . Could probably get a killer deal off Textron to get the machine into service. They have started the first limited production run now and it has done well on flights to date with almost 100% despatch rate. Low running and acquisition costs to boot and a twin engine as well. I thought the Embraer had entered service by now. Lots of orders for it in the bag already. One hell of a sexy beast that scorpion

    The AC hasn't got the ability to absorb the soakage required being another "test/launch" customer.

    The sales manuals for an aircraft are always going to promise the sun, moon and the stars. Of course they would claim a near 100 dispatch rate, they're hardly going to advertised a 60/70% rate.

    The AC were absolutely the guinea pig for the AW139 and there were issues that were ironed out as a result of AC fixes. They even went and built another aircraft suitably equipped as a military helicopter off the back of the 139 which is effectively a entirely civil helicopter.

    Have to disagree with you about the scorpion. I think its an awful looking aircraft and offers very little marginal benefit over the Pc-9 as it is still subsonic.

    Squadron of Gripen aircraft can be leased for approximately 70/80m per annum. This includes maintenance and training. A realistic option which wont break that bank. Much more of a killer deal and far superior "bang for your buck" despite higher operating costs.

    Perhaps they should invest 10/15m in a few primary radar heads before worrying about acquiring jet aircraft.


  • #18
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Obviously you know.more about this issue than I do Neg. I naively thought that it would be better for the lads to progress in stages rather than jump from an advanced turboprop trainer to a generation 4 front line fighter.


  • #19
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Ah. So the first 2 PC12's must be due pretty soon. Great news!


  • #20
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Another photo of the current state of one of the PC12 NG's:
    https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/status/1219651072224104450


  • #21
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Can't see the roubles! Correct link or pic,?


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  • #22
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Roundels...sorry, predictive text screw up!


  • #23
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Can't see the roubles! Correct link or pic,?


    Well it's coming from the Air Corps so yeah it's the correct pic, just we don't know where they have put the roundrels on the wing.


  • #24
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Id hazard a guess at the same positions as the rest of the fleet, Id use the PC9M as an example.


  • #25
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I know I am probably way over simplifying this but would pc9 pilots be able to fly the pc12 with only a short conversation course?


  • #26
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I know I am probably way over simplifying this but would pc9 pilots be able to fly the pc12 with only a short conversation course?

    In short, no.

    The PC-12 requires a full initial type conversion course and its performance, systems and avionics are drastically different the the PC-9.


  • #27
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The air corps may have taken delivery of a PC12 as seen one being flown out of Casement this morning but it looked a different colour


  • #28
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    roadmaster wrote: »
    The air corps may have taken delivery of a PC12 as seen one being flown out of Casement this morning but it looked a different colour


    Not yet, they have a PC-12 aircraft currently in use for type rating, its OH-GTH.


  • #29
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Psychlops wrote: »
    Not yet, they have a PC-12 aircraft currently in use for type rating, its OH-GTH.

    https://www.radarbox24.com/data/registration/oh-gth


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