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Under 35s, are you taking out Health Insurance?

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    #92
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    marketty wrote: »
    So we're paying tax rates sufficient to expect a decent NHS like the UK, and have to fork out for private cover like the US if we actually want to get decent cover?

    Yes.

    We shouldn't have to pay twice.

    Either we pay tax and have a tax-financed system like the NHS.

    Or we all move to insurance, and taxes fall.

    One or the other, not this two-tier system.


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    #93
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    My brother-in-law in suburban Florida pays $15,300 per year for his family's health insurance (Currently €14,570)

    Trust me, it is still cheap in Ireland.

    We pay tax + optional ins.

    In the USA, they just pay ins.

    So the comparison is perhaps a bit unfair.


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    #94
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    JohnMearsheimer wrote: »
    No, I won't be getting it. I dropped my health insurance about 2 years ago and then I was diagnosed with MS last year. Now I have a pre-existing condition and I won't get medical insurance.

    http://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/waiting-periods/new-customer-waiting-periods

    For a pre-existing condition you won't be covered for MS-related costs for 5-10 years depending on your age, but after that waiting period you will be covered, regardless that it's a pre-existing condition. You will be covered from the start for everything else - what if you get cancer?


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Geuze wrote: »
    Yes.

    We shouldn't have to pay twice.

    Either we pay tax and have a tax-financed system like the NHS.

    Or we all move to insurance, and taxes fall.

    One or the other, not this two-tier system.

    And lots of people in UK pay for health insurance and go to private dentists, certainly a lot of the people I know anyway. The NHS is no holy grail, people in the UK complain about it just as much as we complain about our health system here.


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    #96
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Cody Howling Candlestick wrote: »
    And lots of people in UK pay for health insurance and go to private dentists, certainly a lot of the people I know anyway. The NHS is no holy grail.

    Still better than the absolute clusterf*ck that is the Irish system.


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    #97
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Yes, always had it and would not be without it.

    Probably more for the TTTAY thread but i always scream "wankkr" in my head when i hear this. This sentence only is uttered from people who have VHI. Is it like they train you all "Garda college style" like to say it? IOU all one personality.

    Anyways, while i feel a ban is imminent, that needed to be said.

    Aaaah


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    #98
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,097 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Probably more for the TTTAY thread but i always scream "wankkr" in my head when i hear this. This sentence only is uttered from people who have VHI. Is it like they train you all "Garda college style" like to say it? IOU all one personality.

    Anyways, while i feel a ban is imminent, that needed to be said.

    Aaaah

    Clearly you have a pre-existing condition.


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    #99
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I've been thinking about it a lot lately as I turn 35 in August and I just don't see any way I can afford anything but the cheapest, don't really cover anything except the ability to say you have Health Insurance, plans...


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    #100
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    All well and good OP, you're fit and healthy... preventing yourself from self inflicted ailments... but you seemingly forgot to take into account for ACCIDENTS - things that are outside your control, suddenly you're looking at a bill for a few dozen thousands of €.


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    #101
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Yeah, thats partly my point. Older, and just basic unhealthier people are taking a large amount out of the 'insurance pit' without paying their fair share in. This shortfall needs to be made up somewhere, with younger people making up the difference with terrible value premiums. It's a pity they cant charge older people what they should be, but c'est la vie. A couple of people have asked me about this recently and its really hard to advise not to get private in case something terrible does happen and they get seriously ill. Just as long as people realise they are being ripped off massively in value and probability terms, they can decide themselves if they are comfortable with that.

    You do realise a lot of those older people were young once (all of them actually), and that many of them have paid for health insurance since they were younger? We don't charge older people higher tax and PRSI because they require more resources in the public health system. Pensions cost more the later you start paying into them - why should private healthcare be different. Incentivising starting young is a good way of ensuring a properly functioning healthcare insurance market.

    And if you consider HI a rip off, ask yourself why... for a start look at the ridiculous prices charged by the HSE to insurance companies for beds, even if only used for a few hours.


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    #102
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Zzippy wrote: »
    You do realise a lot of those older people were young once (all of them actually), and that many of them have paid for health insurance since they were younger? We don't charge older people higher tax and PRSI because they require more resources in the public health system. Pensions cost more the later you start paying into them - why should private healthcare be different. Incentivising starting young is a good way of ensuring a properly functioning healthcare insurance market.

    And if you consider HI a rip off, ask yourself why... for a start look at the ridiculous prices charged by the HSE to insurance companies for beds, even if only used for a few hours.

    I consider all insurance to be a rip off. In a basic sense its like the lotto, loads of people pay in, a percentage gets skimmed off the top, and the rest divided out between a few. In nearly all insurance the premiums you pay dont correlate well with the likelihood of you claiming, i.e the premiums are more than the actually should be, where insurance companies make their profit. Thus I dont use insurance if I can get away with it. (Have to pay the car, and work covers the health).

    In the case of Health Insurance, I'm getting extra ripped off as im quite unlikely to claim this year, compared to say my parents. Yet our premiums arent too dissimilar. On top of losing a percentage to the insurance company, im losing a huge percentage to other policy holders. The point about the cost of beds are irrelevant. Insurance companies are just relaying this cost to the consumer through premiums. If beds were cheaper, they'd charge less. They'd still take the same amount off the top though to maintain their margin. And i'd still be getting much less value from my policy than older people.

    With your first point, are you not agreeing with me? I'd fully support a health insurance policy that started off with small premiums when young, making it cheaper when you are older. The problem is that people of say 50-70, may join Aviva this year and be in the same pool as me, and they are not paying anywhere near enough in premiums compared to the risk they pose. Their premiums should be multiple times that of a 25 year old, yet they wont be. It leads to the 25 year olds premium being overpriced to make up the difference


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    #103
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    I consider all insurance to be a rip off. In a basic sense its like the lotto, loads of people pay in, a percentage gets skimmed off the top, and the rest divided out between a few. In nearly all insurance the premiums you pay dont correlate well with the likelihood of you claiming, i.e the premiums are more than the actually should be, where insurance companies make their profit. Thus I dont use insurance if I can get away with it. (Have to pay the car, and work covers the health).

    In the case of Health Insurance, I'm getting extra ripped off as im quite unlikely to claim this year, compared to say my parents. Yet our premiums arent too dissimilar. On top of losing a percentage to the insurance company, im losing a huge percentage to other policy holders. The point about the cost of beds are irrelevant. Insurance companies are just relaying this cost to the consumer through premiums. If beds were cheaper, they'd charge less. They'd still take the same amount off the top though to maintain their margin. And i'd still be getting much less value from my policy than older people.

    With your first point, are you not agreeing with me? I'd fully support a health insurance policy that started off with small premiums when young, making it cheaper when you are older. The problem is that people of say 50-70, may join Aviva this year and be in the same pool as me, and they are not paying anywhere near enough in premiums compared to the risk they pose. Their premiums should be multiple times that of a 25 year old, yet they wont be. It leads to the 25 year olds premium being overpriced to make up the difference

    I'm not sure you really get the point of insurance. It's there as a failsafe for when something does go wrong, not for you to get value from it on an ongoing basis.
    As for your main point, the whole point of LCR is to change that system so that older people joining will pay more than you do. Charging older people multiples of what you pay would result in people only being able to afford health insurance in their younger years, and having to give it up when they are most likely to need it. While that might suit the insurance companies bottom line, it's not something desirable in a modern society, and maybe something you'll appreciate as you get older yourself. Of course you pay more now as a 25 year old than your risk profile would indicate - the system is predicated on you paying similar premia all your life and your risk over your whole lifetime balances this out. The alternative is unworkable - paying increasing amounts as you age until you reach a point where you can't afford it!


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    #104
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Cody Howling Candlestick wrote: »
    And lots of people in UK pay for health insurance and go to private dentists, certainly a lot of the people I know anyway. The NHS is no holy grail, people in the UK complain about it just as much as we complain about our health system here.

    I think 10% of pop in UK have insurance, vs 40% here?


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    #105
    seventeen sheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    I have health insurance through work. It gives me a lot of peace of mind. If I'm hmming and hawwing over whether my baby really needs to go to the doctor with a temperature/rash/virus etc, it's good to know it'll only cost me €15 rather than €55. I get a lot back on consultant appointments too. Actually, with all the GP and consultant appointments and other medical issues myself and my son have had in the past year or so, it's well worth the BIK I pay on it.

    I have a friend in the unfortunate position where she doesn't have health insurance, and her toddler needs a procedure done on his ears with a waiting list of 6+ months on the public system. It'll cost her around €900 that she doesn't have to get it done privately sooner than that. His speech development has been and will continue to be negatively affected until the procedure is done.

    I think, even if I couldn't have health insurance for myself, it would be a priority for my children. It shouldn't be the case; our taxes should cover this sort of stuff, but sadly that isn't the reality.
    Lia_lia wrote: »
    My employer pays for it. Also dental insurance. Don't think I would pay for it myself, however!

    You would be paying BIK on both though - depending on your tax band, could be quite a bit!


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    #106
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I've had it since I was born with the VHI....first on my parents policy and now on my own.

    Ok it costs a hell of a lot but it's a fool's game not to have it.


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    #107
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Have it for years, through work but were that not the case I'd buy it.


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    #108
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,272 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    What jobs have ye that the employer pays for the workers private health insurance?


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    #109
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    What jobs have ye that the employer pays for the workers private health insurance?

    It's quite common with the larger Yank outfits.


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    #110
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    Anybody over 30 or so who doesn't have health insurance has no common sense and/or hasn't had to endure our country's fabulous public healthcare system.


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    #111
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    moc moc a moc wrote: »
    Anybody over 30 or so who doesn't have health insurance has no common sense and/or hasn't had to endure our country's fabulous public healthcare system.

    Or hasn't the money to pay for it.:confused:


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    #112
    johnny osbourne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭johnny osbourne


    GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

    edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable


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    #113
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I don't think it works like that.
    Any treatment relating to that would be excluded for 5 years but I would have thought that your quote would be same as everyone else


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    #114
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    johnny osbourne wrote: »
    GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

    edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable
    That seems very strange, as usually someone can take out a policy without being asked about existing conditions - the only mention is normally that pre-existing conditions aren't covered for 5 years or whatever, but the premiums would be the same as anyone else, injuries or accidents usually covered immediately & newly diagnosed illnesses covered after waiting period of a given number of weeks after policy taken out.

    Or were you looking for immediate cover for your existing condition?


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    #115
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    johnny osbourne wrote: »
    GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

    edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable

    Sounds like Permanent Health Insurance, which is a totally different thing


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    #116
    Rachiee
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Rachiee


    I genuinely don't see the point the max a hospital visit can cost is 800 Euro ( so what 7 months premiums) and you get a refund of 20 per cent on that. If it's q skipping you want you can get a loan and go private for the single procedure/diagnosis/consult still cheaper in the long run, you'd be better off having a rainy day saving account I if anything, you'll never even break even with the premiums charged unless you get something massive and chronic


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    #117
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #118
    al22
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭al22


    My own experience - paid VHI nearly 20 years and been healthy, total paid about 15,000+ euro for nothing (?)

    Then get seriously ill and VHI paid some over 100,000 for my treatment. Healthy again. Will not say it was a waste of my money.
    Pay and be healthy is better than be ill and have no money for doctors, tests diagnostics etc.

    FREE MRI SCAN - children waiting for 14 months if one have money or VHI pay for that, in my case it was 4 hours waiting for the MRI scan in expensive private hospital. Allso met - a young lad with a few children in a public hospital - without insurance must to pay about 800 euro anyway when discharged. He is working but 800 turo is a lot for him too.

    Choise is yours - I ish everybody stay healthy, but when ill what you will prefer? Medical help and treatment without delay, or money saved?


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    #119
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    That theory does not reflect the real world situation
    Most people won't be able to afford to pay for private treatment. If would prove difficult for most to borrow for such treatment also.
    Fair enough, for public hospital, the fees are low but if you found yourself needing operation after operation for something that would put you on the public waiting lists, you would need to be a multi millionaire to find it yourself privately.


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    #120
    Beersmith
    Registered Users Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Rachiee wrote: »
    I genuinely don't see the point the max a hospital visit can cost is 800 Euro ( so what 7 months premiums) and you get a refund of 20 per cent on that. If it's q skipping you want you can get a loan and go private for the single procedure/diagnosis/consult still cheaper in the long run, you'd be better off having a rainy day saving account I if anything, you'll never even break even with the premiums charged unless you get something massive and chronic

    Exactly, save the money and earn the interest on it, not give it over to the middle man. If everyone gave up their health insurance there would be no Q skipping and everyone would be seen much earlier for appointments but that system would be too fair!


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    #121
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Probably more for the TTTAY thread but i always scream "wankkr" in my head when i hear this. This sentence only is uttered from people who have VHI. Is it like they train you all "Garda college style" like to say it? IOU all one personality.

    Anyways, while i feel a ban is imminent, that needed to be said.

    Aaaah

    Not sure I understood a word of that, sorry?

    Anyway, I'm currently with Laya. But as I'm from Germany originally, I've always had to have insurance, by law. I had a look at the health system here when I moved over and went straight on to purchase private insurance. Seemed like a very good idea, and for a very reasonable price, too.


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