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Pope slap

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  • 01-01-2020 4:09pm
    #1
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭


    Treppen wrote: »
    TheseGoodnaturedAngelfish-size_restricted.gif
    I don't think that's funny. He's an 83 year old man, and she grabbed him and pulled him hard. If someone did that to my dad, I'd be furious.

    Mod: Moved from funnies forum to new thread as off topic


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    #2
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    mikhail wrote: »
    I don't think that's funny. He's an 83 year old man, and she grabbed him and pulled him hard. If someone did that to my dad, I'd be furious.

    And yet he has apologised....

    He is hardly the average 83 year old man. He is an 83 year old absolute 'monarch' and head of an international organisation that claims to be based on love, forgiveness, non-violence and all that doing a walk about among the Faithful.
    Yet here he is - retaliating violently.

    In rugby that would have seen him sin binned. :P


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    #3
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    In rugby that would have seen him sin binned. :P
    And in the real world, what that woman did is assault, for which he could press charges if it wouldn't be a PR disaster.


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    #4
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,123 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    And yet he has apologised....

    He is hardly the average 83 year old man. He is an 83 year old absolute 'monarch' and head of an international organisation that claims to be based on love, forgiveness, non-violence and all that doing a walk about among the Faithful.
    Yet here he is - retaliating violently.

    I think you misspelled "acted in self defence".


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    #5
    GrumpyMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    ...Yet here he is - retaliating violently...


    He is trying to get her to let go - she continued holding him until he broke her hold!
    Try that stunt on "POTUS" and see what "retaliating violently" really means...:D


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    #6
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    He is trying to get her to let go - she continued holding him until he broke her hold!
    Try that stunt on "POTUS" and see what "retaliating violently" really means...:D

    Whilst I am aware there are some who believe the current POTUS was chosen by god, POPUS is billed as Jesus's representative on Earth so perhaps a turning of the other cheek might have been more in keeping with his job description.

    I wasn't aware that we should use any POTUS, but especially the current one, as the bar for how high profile figures on a walkabout among the cordoned public should behave...


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    #7
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    mikhail wrote: »
    And in the real world, what that woman did is assault, for which he could press charges if it wouldn't be a PR disaster.

    And you think this isn't a PR disaster?
    Man of Peace slaps member of the Faithful.
    :)


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    #8
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,400 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    And you think this isn't a PR disaster?
    Man of Peace slaps member of the Faithful.
    :)

    Would anyone have done different?


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    #9
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,866 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Would anyone have done different?

    Yeah, John Prescott would probably have smacked her in the gob! :eek:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpqWFDXTkus

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #10
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,641 ✭✭✭54and56


    mikhail wrote: »
    He's an 83 year old man, and she grabbed him and pulled him hard. If someone did that to my dad, I'd be furious.

    My 85 year old Dad died 4 years ago but if some woman "grabbed him and pulled him hard" when he was 83 I'd be giving them some privacy!!!


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    #11
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Would anyone have done different?

    Provably not but that misses the point which is that the Pope is billed as being 'different'.

    He is proclaimed by the organisation he leads to be the successor of Peter who was Jesus' chosen next-in-command. He preaches about peace and shunning violence.

    People are acting like he's some doddery old man on his way to the shops who got grabbed by a random stranger and acted out of self-defence when the reality is he isn't someone's Dad out on a stroll - he is the head of a powerful, international, organisation on a pre-organised walkabout shaking hands and generally meeting those who believe he is different. One person wanted a bit more contact in a situation created by the Pope. He slapped her away.

    He's a celebrity. A celebrity who according to his publicity has a direct line to God. He chose to go meet and greet en masse people who believe that publicity - he chose to walk close to the barriers and touch some people. That security were allowing this to happen means they were ordered to keep their distance and allow the Pope to press the flesh.

    It is no different to what royalty do - or celebs on the red carpet.
    Imagine if Prince Phillip slapped away someone who was a bit grabby, or Morgan Freeman. It would be a PR disaster - and neither of those are 'god's chosen'.


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    #12
    GrumpyMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Whilst I am aware there are some who believe the current POTUS was chosen by god, POPUS is billed as Jesus's representative on Earth so perhaps a turning of the other cheek might have been more in keeping with his job description.

    I wasn't aware that we should use any POTUS, but especially the current one, as the bar for how high profile figures on a walkabout among the cordoned public should behave...


    Current POTUS would possibly react like a hysterical screaming child (no change there then) - however his SS (Secret Service) would definitely have intervened in a more spectacular way.


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    #13
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    I see the pope has apologised for his actions; https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0101/1103846-pope-apologises-for-slapping-womans-hand/

    My take on it that as a celeb mixing with a large and fanatical crowd, you're going to get grabbed every now and again and should be able to handle it or avoid this type of interaction. I'd say it was a calculated security risk in allowing this in the first instance done largely for PR purposes.


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    #14
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    She was wrong and lucky the security guard always caught off foot or he would have been much more forceful.


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    #15
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    _Brian wrote: »
    She was wrong and lucky the security guard always caught off foot or he would have been much more forceful.

    She was, but given she crossed herself beforehand it seems likely the motive was adulation rather than ill intent. Having the security guard deck one of the faithful during a PR outing would probably not be a great look for the pontificate.


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    #16
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    smacl wrote: »
    She was, but given she crossed herself beforehand it seems likely the motive was adulation rather than ill intent. Having the security guard deck one of the faithful during a PR outing would probably not be a great look for the pontificate.

    Still, for abusing an 83yo man it’s what she deserved.

    If it were one of my parents she abused like that I’d lay her out.


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    #17
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    I now see where the pope stands on strangers interfering with his bodily autonomy.


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I was really surprised he did it, almost weird to see it, but i guess in the end he's only human.


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    #19
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    _Brian wrote: »
    Still, for abusing an 83yo man it’s what she deserved.

    If it were one of my parents she abused like that I’d lay her out.

    If you're parents had millions of fervent followers, many of whom were religious fanatics, you might suggest they avoid mingling with them in this manner.

    Then again, if your folks had a security budget that could probably sort the homeless crisis, you might expect them to vet out the nutters so his holiness didn't have to deal with this rather uncouth expression of devotion.


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    #20
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was really surprised he did it, almost weird to see it, but i guess in the end he's only human.
    I think that's Bannasidhe's point. He is only human. His reaction was a perfectly natural human thing to do if someone is gripping your hand and won't let go.

    But the entire facade of the office is based on him being the most holy living person, the one closest to God on earth. Evidence that he is just as human as the rest of us is a PR disaster.

    That said, I don't think Catholics - certainly not Irish ones anyway - pay him the same Godly reverance that the organisation claims upon him.

    The woman herself was clearly just your typical religious obsessive. She was obviously wetting her herself at the thought that she might get to touch the pope, and when he turned away before getting to her, decided to take matters into her own hands.


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    #21
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    seamus wrote: »
    I think that's Bannasidhe's point. He is only human. His reaction was a perfectly natural human thing to do if someone is gripping your hand and won't let go.

    But the entire facade of the office is based on him being the most holy living person, the one closest to God on earth. Evidence that he is just as human as the rest of us is a PR disaster.

    That said, I don't think Catholics - certainly not Irish ones anyway - pay him the same Godly reverance that the organisation claims upon him.

    The woman herself was clearly just your typical religious obsessive. She was obviously wetting her herself at the thought that she might get to touch the pope, and when he turned away before getting to her, decided to take matters into her own hands.

    Exactly.

    It is known that amongst large crowds gathered to see their idol (whomever that may be) a degree of hysteria develops - or as Vatican PR would call it 'religious fervour'.
    In some individuals this fervour/hysteria can completely overwhelm them.

    Here we have a contrived situation - people gather in a large area, some of whom would have travelled thousands of miles at great expense. Those at the front by the crash barriers have managed to secure prime pontiff seeing spots.
    Having waited for hours Pontiff (and security) approach. People are cheering and screaming and calling and praying. Pontiff (and security) approach the people. Pontiff reaches out and grabs outstretched hands. He is all smiles. The hysteria ramps up a notch fed by his proximity. Those behind the front row push forward for a better look and a chance of a touch. Suddenly Pontiff veers away. For the next person in the line waiting to be touched this is too much, she reaches out and grabs him. Angry Pontiff slaps her hands away.

    The Pope decided to do a walkabout.
    The Pope decided to press the flesh.
    The Pope lost his rag when one (filled with religious fervour) woman went a little bit too far for his liking (remember it was his hand she grabbed. The same hand he had extended to those next to her).

    A PR event went pearshaped. Pope seen to be human just as he was supposed to be embodying the living representative of the Saviour (as believed by the people in the crowd).


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    #22
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    mikhail wrote: »
    And in the real world, what that woman did is assault, for which he could press charges if it wouldn't be a PR disaster.

    Now, why do you think the PR would be a disaster ?


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    #23
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Now, why do you think the PR would be a disaster ?

    More to the point, since when is grabbing someones hand assault?


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    #24
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    She acted out, if it was a common thing wouldn't we have seen it before. Not religious at all but the Pope here was totally in the right.

    What's this about a direct line to God btw, is that a stated belief that the office is supposed to confer that ability?


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    #25
    Oasis1974
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Oasis1974


    Has there been an interview with this women yet? Maybe she could add to this seems see was in shock afterwards.


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    #26
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    He's an octogenarian with arthritis. She hauled him several feet from behind. He gave her a gentle tap on the arm.

    Wind your necks back in.


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    #27
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Hoboo wrote: »
    More to the point, since when is grabbing someones hand assault?

    As I understand it, according to our laws, she could be charged with "Assault and Battery".
    Assault involves an individual being placed in fear of harmful or offensive contact. There is no requirement of actual contact with the person. Rather, the harm or offense felt by the individual is fear, anxiety or fright, as examples, in addition to any physical injury that might occur.
    battery is an intentional and wrongful physical contact with another person without that person’s consent that includes some injury or offensive touching. A battery can occur when the individual is actually touched or when any extension of his body is touched without permission or there is a wrongful contact.

    Although who knows what crazy laws they have in Vatican City.

    But do we really want to see the Pope in the witness box?? Being asked what he was wearing? If he had been drinking? If he had lead her on? Was the Pope asking to be grabbed?


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    #28
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Donnielighto wrote: »

    What's this about a direct line to God btw, is that a stated belief that the office is supposed to confer that ability?

    Here you go:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_supremacy

    It's laid out there - the important bit is
    The Catholic doctrine of papal supremacy is based on the assertion by the Bishops of Rome that it was instituted by Christ and that papal succession is traced back to Peter the Apostle in the 1st century. The authority for the position is derived from the Confession of Peter documented in Matthew 16:17–19 when, in response to Peter's acknowledgment of Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God, which many relate to Jesus' divinity, Jesus responded:

    Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona. For flesh and blood hast not revealed this to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death [gates of hell] shall not prevail against it. I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    So, according to the RCC, Jesus left Peter in charge and the Pope is Peter's successor.


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    #29
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Although who knows what crazy laws they have in Vatican City.

    Pope accuses you. Pope's infallible. You're guilty. Simple as.

    No need to call out the Spanish Inquisition ;)


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    #30
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    smacl wrote: »
    Pope accuses you. Pope's infallible. You're guilty. Simple as.

    No need to call out the Spanish Inquisition ;)

    Only infallible in matters of doctrine though... this would be a civil matter so it depends what laws the Absolute Monarch has in place...aka 'The Victim'.


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    #31
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,046 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Did you see his face? She hurt him. If someone grabbed my hand awkwardly and caught my arthritisy thumb I would do exactly the same thing and I am 10 years younger than the Pope. I have no time for the whole charade, but it was a natural reaction.


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