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07-01-2018, 01:44   #61
n97 mini
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Some observations.

#1 I don't know where this sense of entitlement is coming from that if you drive you should make enough to support a family. I use Uber/Lyft extensively abroad and none of the drivers I've spoken to use it as their sole income. They all have "day jobs" and are driving to top-up their earnings. Many are students and it's a great way to pay for college.

#2 Some people prefer taxis under the current system, and that's fine. Allowing UberX/Lyft type services means more choice, but don't deny us who would like to use Uber that choice... you can still use your taxi.

#3 Uber/Lyft vetting does exist. There are a pile of taxi drivers with criminal records, not to mention those who have never sat a driving test (due to various amnesties) on our roads. These would not be allowed drive for Uber.

#4 Rural transport has been hammered by changes to the law. A decade ago we had hackneys, now we have none. Those hackey drivers who made feck all in a week in rural villages have not gone for taxi licences as they're too expensive. With Uber etc, people in rural communities would have a new sense of freedom as their neighbours could get out and drive instead of staying in watching the Late Late Show.

There are other benefits too, they're just a few.
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07-01-2018, 01:54   #62
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I should add in my own personal experience I don't use taxis in Ireland as I think they're too expensive, and aren't good value for money. I see Uber/Lyft more of an alternative to public transport.

E.g. I occasionally go for a beer in the next village. The bus costs €2.10. A taxi costs €10. I never get a taxi home as a result. But if I could get an Uber/Lyft home for €5 I'd use it regularly.
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07-01-2018, 02:10   #63
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Some people prefer taxis under the current system, and that's fine. Allowing UberX/Lyft type services means more choice, but don't deny us who would like to use Uber that choice... you can still use your taxi.
nobody is denying you the choice to use uber though. what's being said is that ubber will have to abide by the regulations set down in relation to taxi services if it wants to operate in this country, given that it is ultimately a taxi service. the regulations shouldn't be relaxed for it unless we relax the regulations for all taxis. uber is not special and shouldn't have specialised legislation tailored for it.
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07-01-2018, 02:23   #64
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nobody is denying you the choice to use uber though. what's being said is that ubber will have to abide by the regulations set down in relation to taxi services if it wants to operate in this country, given that it is ultimately a taxi service. the regulations shouldn't be relaxed for it unless we relax the regulations for all taxis. uber is not special and shouldn't have specialised legislation tailored for it.
You know as well as I do that by forcing Uber (and Lyft etc) to operate under taxi laws means there is no differentiation between taxis and Uber. I call an Uber in Ireland and I get a taxi. I don't want a taxi! Taxis operate in what the competition authority (or whatever they're called now) would call cartell-like behaviour. i.e. there is no difference in price between any of them. Imagine if all supermarkets charged exactly the same price for their goods.

Given that "crowd sourcing" is the way forward, blocking UberX from operating like it does in other countries not only deprives small local communities of a valuable service, it also stops ordinary working people from making an extra few bob, and makes Ireland look like it's still in the dark ages, which it is in a lot of ways.
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07-01-2018, 02:38   #65
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You know as well as I do that by forcing Uber (and Lyft etc) to operate under taxi laws means there is no differentiation between taxis and Uber.
ultimately there is no differentiation between them in terms of what type of service they are anyway. they are both taxis, uber and lift just have a different method of operation.

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Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
I call an Uber in Ireland and I get a taxi. I don't want a taxi! Taxis operate in what the competition authority (or whatever they're called now) would call cartell-like behaviour. i.e. there is no difference in price between any of them. Imagine if all supermarkets charged exactly the same price for their goods. Given that "crowd sourcing" is the way forward, blocking UberX from operating like it does in other countries not only deprives small local communities of a valuable service, it also stops ordinary working people from making an extra few bob, and makes Ireland look like it's still in the dark ages, which it is in a lot of ways.
no, it doesn't make ireland look like it is in the dark ages or deprive local communities of a valuable service. if there is money to be made in such services then they will be operated. working people would be deprived of an extra few bob for many reasons, it's no good reason for uber to be exempt from legislation for it's industry, the taxi industry.
what you are arguing for here is for uber to be made a special case, it's not a special case. it's a taxi service with a different method of operation to indigenous taxi services.
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07-01-2018, 03:21   #66
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Well then they're breaking the law. No one is arguing for no insurance. Have a law which requires proper insurance. I don't see the problem
but there is no such law in Ireland, you can't have a standard private policy on a vehicle and use that same vehicle for uber as it makes the private policy void and you are therefore uninsured all the time.
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07-01-2018, 11:03   #67
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Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
I should add in my own personal experience I don't use taxis in Ireland as I think they're too expensive, and aren't good value for money. I see Uber/Lyft more of an alternative to public transport.

E.g. I occasionally go for a beer in the next village. The bus costs €2.10. A taxi costs €10. I never get a taxi home as a result. But if I could get an Uber/Lyft home for €5 I'd use it regularly.
To use your own words back at you - where does your sense of entitlement come from that you think you deserve cheap fares at the expense of someone else's livelihood?

If the bus trip costs €2.10 then €10 for a private hire vehicle seems about right considering. We shouldn't be encouraging the use of inefficient transport modes like taxis by making them competitive price-wise with buses.
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07-01-2018, 11:25   #68
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Yes well we're back to the days of long walks or long waits for taxis at the weekend, so bring it on I say.

And it's not just the weekend, the company I work for were told by the taxi company they use it's very hard to guarantee a cab Mon-Fri, so give hour's if not days notice, there's just too much work on the street they were told.
I get a taxi home from work every night Monday to Friday and don't have any issues getting a taxi and only give a couple of minutes notice at a time
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07-01-2018, 12:12   #69
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Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
I should add in my own personal experience I don't use taxis in Ireland as I think they're too expensive, and aren't good value for money. I see Uber/Lyft more of an alternative to public transport.

E.g. I occasionally go for a beer in the next village. The bus costs €2.10. A taxi costs €10. I never get a taxi home as a result. But if I could get an Uber/Lyft home for €5 I'd use it regularly.
So basically your argument boils down to as follows....

I don't use taxis at all. Let's change the law entirely so I can save a fiver going to the pub even though it's cheaper to walk, get the bus, drink closer to or at home, or even to take the pledge.
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07-01-2018, 13:09   #70
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but there is no such law in Ireland, you can't have a standard private policy on a vehicle and use that same vehicle for uber as it makes the private policy void and you are therefore uninsured all the time.
You do understand that we know that it can't be done at present, we are saying this is what should happen. A change to allow cars to be used for hire but such cars would require insurance that would cover them all the time. Ride sharing insurance is available in other countries and I can't see why insurers wouldn't offer it here too. And if no insurers do then I suppose then the model won't work or someone will come up with another idea. But I can't see why insurers here wouldn't do it.

Uber then also insure the trip in case for some reason the driver's insurance doesn't. This in fact is a higher standard than taxis. If I am in a taxi which is illegal or perhaps loaned to someone else and we're in a crash then the insurer won't pay out but if I am in an uber and the driver's insurer won't pay out then uber's insurance covers it.

Last edited by usernamegoes; 07-01-2018 at 13:15.
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07-01-2018, 17:22   #71
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but there is no such law in Ireland, you can't have a standard private policy on a vehicle and use that same vehicle for uber as it makes the private policy void and you are therefore uninsured all the time.
Ride sharing insurance policies didn't exist in the US before ride sharing became the norm, now they do. The car insurance market will move with the times.
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07-01-2018, 17:26   #72
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To use your own words back at you - where does your sense of entitlement come from that you think you deserve cheap fares at the expense of someone else's livelihood?

If the bus trip costs €2.10 then €10 for a private hire vehicle seems about right considering. We shouldn't be encouraging the use of inefficient transport modes like taxis by making them competitive price-wise with buses.
I think you are missing the point. If taxi's became more affordable, then there would be an increase in volume. Think about the airline industry, how many people fly no compared to the 80's?

No is one is 'entitled' to earn a wage just cause, that wage has to add some value to what ever activity they are performing. Again, I heard all these arguments in the 90's when taxi drivers were giving out yarns about deregulation. They viewed it that they had a human right to charge customers more than what was fair and closed entry into the business off to others, by restricting licenses. I trust no one is arguing that they want to see those days back?

Essentially long term the taxi industry as we know it is dead, as autonomous cars will see to that. This will lead to a sea change in how we view public transport and and owning cars.
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07-01-2018, 17:42   #73
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I think you are missing the point. If taxi's became more affordable, then there would be an increase in volume. Think about the airline industry, how many people fly no compared to the 80's?

No is one is 'entitled' to earn a wage just cause, that wage has to add some value to what ever activity they are performing. Again, I heard all these arguments in the 90's when taxi drivers were giving out yarns about deregulation. They viewed it that they had a human right to charge customers more than what was fair and closed entry into the business off to others, by restricting licenses. I trust no one is arguing that they want to see those days back?

Essentially long term the taxi industry as we know it is dead, as autonomous cars will see to that. This will lead to a sea change in how we view public transport and and owning cars.

high volume public transport such as bus and rail based solutions will continue to be the main stay of public transport and will be the options most pushed for as it will still be efficient compared to car based public transport, whether ride share/automated cars. automated cars will eventually replace current taxis but bus and rail will always be more space efficient and consume less resources.
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07-01-2018, 18:04   #74
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high volume public transport such as bus and rail based solutions will continue to be the main stay of public transport and will be the options most pushed for as it will still be efficient compared to car based public transport, whether ride share/automated cars. automated cars will eventually replace current taxis but bus and rail will always be more space efficient and consume less resources.
Yes, I agree. There will still be a need for high volume transport methods. I see buses to be more frequent as it will get very cheap to run them. They will be powered by battery, no need for drivers so the cost to run and maintain them will drop substantially.
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07-01-2018, 19:06   #75
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I think you are missing the point. If taxi's became more affordable, then there would be an increase in volume. Think about the airline industry, how many people fly no compared to the 80's?

No is one is 'entitled' to earn a wage just cause, that wage has to add some value to what ever activity they are performing. Again, I heard all these arguments in the 90's when taxi drivers were giving out yarns about deregulation. They viewed it that they had a human right to charge customers more than what was fair and closed entry into the business off to others, by restricting licenses. I trust no one is arguing that they want to see those days back?

Essentially long term the taxi industry as we know it is dead, as autonomous cars will see to that. This will lead to a sea change in how we view public transport and and owning cars.
Moving those goalposts yet again - you're being annoyingly disingenuous about what points I'm trying to make and then arguing with yourself about things I didn't say. For example, where did I say taxi drivers were entitled to a wage?
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