Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
11-03-2019, 13:23   #46
Charles Babbage
Registered User
 
Charles Babbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,743
Of all the issues that arise in Dublin, this issue might seem one that something can be done about. This problem is located where a bus depot and garda station are within the next few stops. Those involved haven't for the most part opted out of society and would not be keen on a conviction as it would stop you getting a J1. Definite action, perhaps at the start of the academic year, would set the tone and things could be dampened down and there is something of herd instinct here, if things are calmed others will then be less inclined to act the maggot.
Charles Babbage is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
11-03-2019, 17:04   #47
expectationlost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,607
well you can be discipined gor conduct outside the college

UCD Student Code
http://www.ucd.ie/governance/resourc...e-studentcode/
Quote:
Breaches of Discipline
Any act or omission, which affects adversely the rights of any other member of the academic community, or which
disrupts the orderly and responsible conduct of any University activity, or which violates any University Regulation,
shall constitute a breach of discipline, examples of which could include but are not limited to:
Quote:
6.18 Any activity, whether committed inside or outside the University, which adversely affects, or is likely to
adversely affect, the reputation of the University, its students or members of staff.
expectationlost is offline  
11-03-2019, 17:23   #48
AlekSmart
Registered User
 
AlekSmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by expectationlost View Post
well you can be discipined gor conduct outside the college

UCD Student Code
http://www.ucd.ie/governance/resourc...e-studentcode/
Excellent stuff !

Presumably all students will have been required to accept and sign this Student Code ?

If so then it offers a very strong rod with which to birch the offenders.
If the UCD authorities and Bus Companies can be enticed to bring the Student Code to the forefront,then with clear CCTV footage,it should be relatively easy to find a willing volunteer to be the first dope to be expelled for acting the Jinnet in public.

So,it's a waiting game now.
AlekSmart is offline  
(2) thanks from:
11-03-2019, 23:15   #49
Wishbone Ash
Registered User
 
Wishbone Ash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroditas View Post
It was happening when I started there in 92!
Seems to die down for a year or two and then flare up again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetLight View Post
No, the crux of the issue is that this has been happening for YEARS and nothing has changed....
I travelled that route regularly in 1989/1990 (not as a UCD student) and it was going on then.
Wishbone Ash is offline  
12-03-2019, 01:54   #50
Yer Da sells Avon
Registered User
 
Yer Da sells Avon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen15 View Post
Over in London the assault screen is sealed meaning the driver cannot open even if he/she wished noticed this in other cities too. Would drivers be unhappy if they did that here too?
I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.
Yer Da sells Avon is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
12-03-2019, 11:26   #51
dashcamdanny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yer Da sells Avon View Post
I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.
As long as you realize that if you do get attacked and hurt, the first question your company will ask is " ......"
I think you know the answer to that.

It may also affect any payed time off to recover from injury inflicted or a claim.

In sh1t hole areas in Dublin mine is up.

I have been attacked more than once.

If UCD was on my route. I would not be stopping for a bunch of lads either. No way in hell I need that BS in my day.
dashcamdanny is offline  
12-03-2019, 13:05   #52
AlekSmart
Registered User
 
AlekSmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yer Da sells Avon View Post
I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.
I actually agree with YDsA's opinion on "The Screen".

Modern Operating companies place a huge emphasis upon "Customer Focused" staff,and have incorporated allsorts of filters into their recruitment processes in an attempt to ensure that pleasant welcoming simle for every customer boarding.

However,such principles depend upon the Customer also buying fully into it,something which cannot be a universal "given" in this business.

My experience in Busdriving predates the "Assault Screen" and incorpoates some Two Person Operation,where it has to be said,some rough behaviour occurred also.

However,such behaviour was VERY rare,and would be a conversation point for months afterwards.

There was a far more personal interaction involved in a Conductor Scenario,as he/she was totally focused upon the Human Factor element of the deal,leaving the Driver to focus on the driving.

However,any Busdriver operating a vehicle in which a Security Screen is provided,would need to fully accquaint themselves with their employers Health & Safety Policy for Driving Staff,as it could place certain responsibilities on the Staff Member regarding the use of relevant PPE,as the screen would be described.

These is NO problem at all in not using any of these protections...UNTIL something happens,and that something,can happen without any warning at all.

The Dublin Bus issue was researched quite comprehensively back in 2008 (?)

https://arrow.dit.ie/aaschssldis/3/

The arrival of One Person Operation altered this delicate relationship for ever,and the situations we see today became more common. (NOT specific to Dublin by any means)

https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/re...iour-on-buses/

https://planetradio.co.uk/hits-radio...behaviour-bus/

https://www.tfgm.com/press-release/civil-injunctions

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...ial-behaviour/

Those are only a pop-up selection of cases,with,I believe the Greater Manchester proposal of injuncting named individuals,being the one most suited to the UCD situation.

It does also offer the greater Student Body some opportunity to reflect upon what exactly they are prepared to do,in order to recover their reputation,which currently is dragged through the muck with regularity along the N11.

Doing nothing is always an option,however it has to be the silent one.
AlekSmart is offline  
14-03-2019, 09:09   #53
Xterminator
Registered User
 
Xterminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,427
Hmm. those saying the bus driver sitting behind a screen would be a defense to allow gangs on the bus are ignoring another key point.

DB have to provide a safe environment for their customers as well as there staff. The other passengers wont be safe behind a perspex screen and would also be at the mercy of the yobs. Its hard to envisage that some people would like to see the one person charged with their safety unable to leave their berth by design to come to a passengers aid?

The real solution is the enforcement of sanctions on the thugs using available cc tv footage etc. there will always be people who misbehave but if the serial offenders lost their UCD privileges, and their peers saw the law enforced, it would go a long way towards solving issues like this.
Xterminator is offline  
Thanks from:
14-03-2019, 18:49   #54
Stephen15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 6,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xterminator View Post
Hmm. those saying the bus driver sitting behind a screen would be a defense to allow gangs on the bus are ignoring another key point.

DB have to provide a safe environment for their customers as well as there staff. The other passengers wont be safe behind a perspex screen and would also be at the mercy of the yobs. Its hard to envisage that some people would like to see the one person charged with their safety unable to leave their berth by design to come to a passengers aid
But what you suggest a bus driver does to come to the aid of passengers? He/she is not a LEO and can do little more than switch off the engine, radio control to call the emmergency services and wait for the emmergency services to arrive or for the situation to come to a conclusion in the mean time ie. the culprits do a runner. There is little more the driver can do.

As for assault screens rightly or wrongly they are something which many urban bus operators have installed across the continent and further afield. Like or not it is in companies and passengers interests to provide a safe working environment for employees as assaults lead to drivers on leave due to injuries suffered in assaults, poor staff retention rates, difficulties attracting new entrants and ultimately a loss in service be that due to a failure to provide enough drivers or drivers refusing to work in at certain times in certain areas.

There is certainly many things that can and should be done to prevent these disturbances but buy and large this is something that is down to agencies such the DoJ, DoF and AGS rather than the NTA, DB and GAI to do.

One thing I would suggest which in my opinion would prevent some of this behaviour is security on certain services deemed high risk similar to the Luas it would provide extra protection for drivers and passengers. They could be deployed on services serving UCD after 21:30 and on the likes of the 13, 27, 40 and 77a.

Last edited by Stephen15; 14-03-2019 at 19:11.
Stephen15 is online now  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
04-04-2019, 02:13   #55
wurzlitzer
Registered User
 
wurzlitzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 489
Sorry for dragging this up again
But for the last three nights I have been left stranded by the 39a service from UCD. I finish work usually around 11.00 am so I rely on the 39a to bring me to Baggot street bridge.

I have had to get alternative routes and I have had to walk further and as a female this means that the likelihood of me getting attacked is greater.

On Monday night two drivers sat on the dual carriageway chatting, and one of these buses was scheduled to pick up at our stop which is the stop opposite Belfield court just drove by and skipped the stop, the RTPI disappeared for this stop and the other driver was then ten minutes late before she picked us up. last night the bus drove past this stop, tonight the same driver at 11.15 with the same registration drove past this non-campus stop and the RTPI information disappeared.

When I did get the last bus last night, after two buses driving by the driver flew into town driving by some people flagging down buses.

health and safety is being used as an excuse for these drivers to skip a stop it’s a catch all term.

But what happens if someone gets killed trying to flag down these buses by stepping out into the road which I witnessed last night.

The student population is 32,000 and staff working there are also in high numbers. what about their health and safety

Why are drivers skipping the stops even two stops outside the campus.

What constitutes a gang more than two people at a stop? And drivers seem to be driving past one person at a stop also because it is not worth their while as they can pick and choose.

This discimmination against students has to stop. The last three nights I have waited at the Belfield court stop with students coming from the library.

DB has either run a functioning service or stop running a willy nilly service that is dictated by the mood and whims of drivers.

I held DB drivers in high esteem until recent times, but since watching two highly charged interactions between drivers and a students who simply complained about the poor service and lack of information, got snapped at.

One driver said I am just paid to drive the bus, yeah well what about the people who pay to use the bus they pay you! They expect a regular normal service.

Customer service is poor and also these students that are studying late trying to better themselves deserve better than this piss poor attitude. UCD students and staff contribute a huge proportion of the fares to those routes on the dual carriageway they deserve a better service and a better attitude.

Union representatives advising these drivers on how to conduct themselves regarding UCD have a lot to answer for informing them that they are not to stop if there is a “gang” this gives the driver free licence to decide what constitutes a gang

DB advertise that there’s not a service or provide one

I work late every night and I have no alternative but to use to this service it’s been bad of late but now it’s definitely the pits. It reminds me of the DB days in the nineties when you had no expectations but now my expectations are even below those expectations back then.

Last edited by wurzlitzer; 04-04-2019 at 02:36.
wurzlitzer is offline  
04-04-2019, 05:19   #56
LastStop
Registered User
 
LastStop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurzlitzer View Post

But what happens if someone gets killed trying to flag down these buses by stepping out into the road which I witnessed last night.

.
It was student race day in Leopardstown yesterday, seen quite a few people in a bad state, also seen many private coaches hired to carry them.

If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.

The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with DB and trying to sort something out, not going online slinging mud.

Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.

You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,
LastStop is offline  
04-04-2019, 09:39   #57
wurzlitzer
Registered User
 
wurzlitzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 489
[quote="LastStop;109847441"]

“If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.”

the person stepping onto the road was not a drunk but someone who out of frustration had stepped out to stop the bus skipping the stop

this is often seen whe drivers seem to be driving too fast towards a stop or appear to be driving past a stop

“The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with”

“Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.”

I and many other people have already skipped two stops and we are at the third stop down the road from the flyover and what’s happening now DB drivers are skipping this stop and there are no revellers at it just students who know about the drivers skipping stops coming from the library trying to get home.

I have used DB for over twenty years and I have lived in disadvantaged areas I have seen anti social behaviour but when there’s no service due to this there has been information given to the bus users.

What I am seeing now is a backlash now from the drivers who are just pissing local residents off students studying for their exams and people who work in UCD getting punished because some drivers advised by their union think this protest would be effective revenge against UCD students

Those who caused the original trouble are probably unaware it was probably students on residence who don’t need to travel Monday to Friday for work and college they can roll out of bed to attend college.

so ordinary jo soaps get punished

But there is a discimmination here against decent students who are law abiding and the people who work and live in the area

So you say we are collateral damage what exactly does that mean?

does it mean we have to put up with bullying behaviour from DB drivers and their unions?

“You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,”

I have been on buses that have had stones thrown at them. On those bus routes I never seen drivers skip stops for months on end afterwards just because there were more than two people standing at a bus stop.

Skipping the stops on campus fine but skipping a third one down from the flyover is not on.

The other night a student who had been studying ended up not getting the bus all the way out to Ongar

that student complained to the driver about the lack of information. the bus driver never apologised just could not care less if the student was stranded

And leaving on time does not help either these students and locals are waiting for up to forty minutes for a bus on a bus dual carriageway this is not a terminus is the back of beyond

So if you work during the day you have no choice but to study in the library

DB are actively alienating a huge student population who members of the public and are potentially causing unnecessary friction that will reside there for a long time all I hear at stops now is how the attitude of the drivers suck.

I personally have lost respect for the drivers on these routes

For the record I am not a student but I feel impelled to speak out that this is clear discrimination against the student population

I myself am someone who simply wants to get home safely and in reasonable time and not an hour more than usual.

DB unions should try and come up with a solution and be the bigger union instead of rubbing customers up the wrong way by ill advising Drivers how to handle the situation and maybe they will gain back the respect they have lost

Last edited by wurzlitzer; 04-04-2019 at 09:47.
wurzlitzer is offline  
04-04-2019, 13:12   #58
AlekSmart
Registered User
 
AlekSmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastStop View Post
It was student race day in Leopardstown yesterday, seen quite a few people in a bad state, also seen many private coaches hired to carry them.

If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.

The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with DB and trying to sort something out, not going online slinging mud.

Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.

You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,

Ah....I was wondering what it was.

Student Race Day at Leopardstown,do you have any further information on the event,or the involvement of UCD itself in it ?

Sounds an interesting innovation in educational terms ?
AlekSmart is offline  
04-04-2019, 13:50   #59
Xterminator
Registered User
 
Xterminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,427
if the poeple at the bus stop were intoxicated / reckless enough to be walking out into traffic then that would justify not stopping.

look you cannot accuse the drivers (the victims of bad behavior) of bullying. that is just blaming the victims.

The driver is responsible for the safety of himself/herself, the vehicle and the passengers on board. You can understand if there is a legitimate fear because if they did endanger the above by stopping they would be responsible.

does that suck for the well behaved majority. yes. is it inconvenient? yes.

the solution is for the perpetrators to be identified and sanctioned. Blaming the drivers, slagging them off on social media does not address the problem of antisocial behavior at that location.
Xterminator is offline  
Thanks from:
04-04-2019, 14:01   #60
AlekSmart
Registered User
 
AlekSmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xterminator View Post
if the poeple at the bus stop were intoxicated / reckless enough to be walking out into traffic then that would justify not stopping.

look you cannot accuse the drivers (the victims of bad behavior) of bullying. that is just blaming the victims.

The driver is responsible for the safety of himself/herself, the vehicle and the passengers on board. You can understand if there is a legitimate fear because if they did endanger the above by stopping they would be responsible.

does that suck for the well behaved majority. yes. is it inconvenient? yes.

The solution is for the perpetrators to be identified and sanctioned. Blaming the drivers, slagging them off on social media does not address the problem of antisocial behavior at that location.
Agree 100%.

This codology has been ongoing now for decades,however,where in times past it was totally Alcohol fuelled,in todays recreational environment there is a far wider range of stimulants in use.

Handling drunken youths could be said to be "easy",but from recent observations in and around Belfield,we are in the midst of a far greater problem.

However,as I say,given that the "Problem ?......what Problem ? approach has worked so well for Official Ireland,I cannot see any native Administrator (or Garda) being prepared to risk their career by calling out a youthful,well connected though stupid,young thug.

It will subside again in a couple of weeks,and everybody will forget about it.
AlekSmart is offline  
Thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet