The Christian Right's "LGB" and "T"

JackTaylorFan · 22-12-2018 9:14pm #1

If you've been following this forum for the last year, you'll most likely have seen a couple of prominent right-wing leaning, anti-trans posters deliberately phrasing the LGB separately from the T - i.e. "LGB" and/or "T". Maybe you thought very little of it. But here's why you should be paying attention:

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb?fbclid=IwAR2h47NvI2lSxuLhiugy0B1nEgrR5V7QEhKF1flTqodIgrg0Tllz8NTD-fs

Kilgannon identified a wide coalition of potential allies outside the Christian Right who could confront trans friendly measures. Here’s her advice on how to draw them in:

Explain that gender identity rights only come at the expense of others: women, sexual assault survivors, female athletes forced to compete against men and boys, ethnic minorities who culturally value modesty, economically challenged children who face many barriers to educational success and don’t need another level of chaos in their lives, children with anxiety disorders and the list goes on and on and on.

The "Christian" Right want to divide and conquer, and if you believe, as the LGB part of the acronym that you'll be fine, sure they'll stop once they dismantle all the protections for Trans and Non-binaries, you need your ****ing head examined:

mikemark · 06-03-2019 10:44pm

I think we need to change LGBT and start using a term like GSM (Gender and Sexuality Minority)
In that way, no one will be removing letters on their will...

JackTaylorFan · 10-03-2019 2:25am

mikemark wrote: »

I think we need to change LGBT and start using a term like GSM (Gender and Sexuality Minority)
In that way, no one will be removing letters on their will...

Even though many would argue that it diminishes or even erases their individual identities, I am not totally against that idea. I think there are arguments for it, for sure.

Doubt it will ever happen in our lifetime though.

Annasopra · 10-03-2019 9:02am

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Even though many would argue that it diminishes or even erases their individual identities, I am not totally against that idea. I think there are arguments for it, for sure.

Doubt it will ever happen in our lifetime though.

In human rights language they tend to use SOGI - sexual orientation and gender identity

I have sometimes used LGBTQIA+ myself as it seems used a good bit within certain areas

Annasopra · 10-03-2019 9:09am

Yeah the whole move to the right nationally and internationally is very worrying.

Gemma O'Doherty here is trying to link all things LGBT with paedophilia. She has now got many links with a lot of far right racists, xenophobes, mysoginists and extreme nationalists.

I take your point that LGBT solidarity is needed but much broader solidarity is needed in my view.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

imme · 10-03-2019 3:45pm

On boards OP?

Are you sure this is boards you're talking about OP.
I haven't noticed anyone separating 't' from LGBT in this part of boards.

How do you know the people you've noticed doing this are right wing Christian.

suicide_circus · 10-03-2019 5:22pm

what is the link between LGB and T? other than historical?

L1011 · 10-03-2019 9:48pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

what is the link between LGB and T? other than historical?

Biggest link has usually been that both were/are frequently affected by the same legal issues (sexual activity which was legal becoming illegal by virtue of a legal gender change where allowed being one). That's only historical in some places, its very much current in others - there are countries that allow legal gender changes and have bans on homosexuality like Iran (although Iran is still not a good place for trans by any means)

Anteayer · 23-03-2019 6:40pm

My view of it is that different people within the community define the LGBQ+ quite differently. Some people are very open minded others are quite happy to jump into their own bunker and pull the ladder up behind them.

As a bi guy, I've found some gay people can be extremely dismissive of the bi people. It's definitely improving but I know growing up in the 2000s I didn't feel part of the community as it was very oriented towards the L and G letters only, or at least that's how it felt.

I just think we need to be very careful not to jump into comfortable bubbles of people exactly like us, particularly as being LG and increasingly B too is no longer controversial being trans is still not an easy path and people are facing challenges and it's important not to just wander off into the broadened establishment and abandon our brothers and sisters who are that "T" in our community.

Also I think we need to be careful not to absorb the US right wing fundamentalist baggage over here. A lot of these really anti LGBT and particularly anti trans debates are crossing the Atlantic but in bubbles online.

25-03-2019 7:43pm

Would a trans woman who was attracted to women be T Or L in that acronym?

Goodshape · 25-03-2019 7:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would a trans woman who was attracted to women be T Or L in that acronym?

Both.

AllForIt · 26-03-2019 1:35am

suicide_circus wrote: »

what is the link between LGB and T? other than historical?

None whatsoever. The T activists latched onto the gay movement for safety in numbers. Clever move which I think will fall apart after the Navratilova case as a starting point.

L1011 wrote: »

Biggest link has usually been that both were/are frequently affected by the same legal issues (sexual activity which was legal becoming illegal by virtue of a legal gender change where allowed being one). That's only historical in some places, its very much current in others - there are countries that allow legal gender changes and have bans on homosexuality like Iran (although Iran is still not a good place for trans by any means)

There is no link whatsoever.

No transgendres have ever been as persecuted as homosexuals. Transgenders have been much more accepted than homosexuals. Society has taken a long time to accept sexual relations between same genders. When heterosexuals think of transgernders they don't think about their sexual activity. That is why transgeners have had a soft time of it.

There is absolutely no link, no connection, no similarity, between transgenderism and homosexuality. None whatsoever.

Annasopra · 26-03-2019 9:33am

AllForIt wrote: »

None whatsoever. The T activists latched onto the gay movement for safety in numbers. Clever move which I think will fall apart after the Navratilova case as a starting point.

There is no link whatsoever.

No transgendres have ever been as persecuted as homosexuals. Transgenders have been much more accepted than homosexuals. Society has taken a long time to accept sexual relations between same genders. When heterosexuals think of transgernders they don't think about their sexual activity. That is why transgeners have had a soft time of it.

There is absolutely no link, no connection, no similarity, between transgenderism and homosexuality. None whatsoever.

We are talking about trans people not "transgenders" - caling trans people "transgenders" is rude and dehumanising and grammtically incorrect. It would be like talking about "disabilities" when referring to "people with disabilities"

There are in fact many links between sexual orientation and gender normativity as a whole

1 Many trans people are LGB as well of course as being heterosexual. This can often mean that trans people want to be part of the spaces and places where lgb people interact
2 There are huge overlapping historical links with LGB and with T. The people who lead the Stonewall riots were mainly trans. LGB people have always taken part in various cultural activities beyond gender norms such as drag kings and drag queens. Medically there are similar issues too. LGB were once deemed mentally ill like trans people are now.
3 By their very nature lgb people are fulfilling societal roles of expected gender roles where people are expected to be cisgender and heterosexual. Of course Butch women and Effeminate men can go even further
4 Coming out to oneself as trans or lgb can often be similar experiences

Its true there are attempts like the op has described to divide and conquer. So the tactic is Divide T - attack T then start attacking LGB. It always amazes me that some lgb people allow themselves to get swept up in right wing rhetoric that wants to eventually attack us all. So essentially some lgb people get involved in what are essentially behind it all when you remove all the veneers anti lgb movements.

26-03-2019 10:47am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

We are talking about trans people not "transgenders" - caling trans people "transgenders" is rude and dehumanising and grammtically incorrect. It would be like talking about "disabilities" when referring to "people with disabilities"

There are in fact many links between sexual orientation and gender normativity as a whole

3 By their very nature lgb people are fulfilling societal roles of expected gender roles where people are expected to be cisgender and heterosexual. Of course Butch women and Effeminate men can go even further

Its true there are attempts like the op has described to divide and conquer. So the tactic is Divide T - attack T then start attacking LGB. It always amazes me that some lgb people allow themselves to get swept up in right wing rhetoric that wants to eventually attack us all. So essentially some lgb people get involved in what are essentially behind it all when you remove all the veneers anti lgb movements.

Can you please explain what you mean in the bolded parts? Genuinely interested

Annasopra · 26-03-2019 7:56pm

Lgb people dont always represent what is expected of heterosexual cisgender people. Therefore they ate already different from societal expectations of what they should and shouldnt be because they are LGB and this means they are also trangressing gender norms i.e. that men act masculine, date women etc.

Some lgb people can further confound societal expectations of them by being butch or effeminate and this is another blurring of gender norms where society places men and eomen into boxes and expects them to act a certain way.

The overall point is LGB people often stand out from societal expectations of what it is be a man or woman and so do a lot of trans people so there is a cultural link where lgb people and trans people often stand out from what is expected of us because we dont necessarily stand for the expected societal gender norms.

The link in the OP describes an awful lot of what I referred to. Also there are quite a few examples in Ireland of gay men that played upto a homophobic agenda and in the UK of some lesbians being quite extreme in their trans hating agenda.

The Christian Right's "LGB" and "T"

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