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Irish Euro Gold and Silver Commemorative coins

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Comments

  • #122
    Blade
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blade


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Bit miffed it's only 2 coins/sets, cannot order 2 sets and a silver, one of each or two of one of them.

    I think you should order 2 sets and pick up the single silvers at the CB as I don't think the single silvers will sell out as quick seeing there's so many of them.


  • #123
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Blade wrote: »
    I think you should order 2 sets and pick up the single silvers at the CB as I don't think the single silvers will sell out as quick seeing there's so many of them.
    That's what people thought about the Michael Collins and James Joyce and...
    But ordered the double sets as its the only way to get the gold coin


  • #124
    Blade
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blade


    fritzelly wrote: »
    That's what people thought about the Michael Collins and James Joyce and...
    But ordered the double sets as its the only way to get the gold coin

    My point is that you've a much better chance of picking up single silvers after the release date than you have the double sets because of the mintages. Even if both types sold out on the first day, you wouldn't have to pay as much over the odds for single silvers as you would for the double sets. So if you can only order 2 then you're better off securing what you can of the doubles.


  • #125
    Sitamoia
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Sitamoia


    Jaysus, they're some rip-off. Got the brochure in the door this morning, on one page it says the Gold one is 22 carat and on the back page it says .999


  • #126
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    All previous ones have been .999 so I imagine its a typo.


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  • #127
    Sitamoia
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Sitamoia


    I know, just saying. But the price is very steep


  • #128
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Sitamoia wrote: »
    I know, just saying. But the price is very steep

    Correct me if im wrong but this is the first time ever I have seen such a high mark up, how can they justify an extra €80 charge for a gold coin not to mention it being part of a double set which should make it a little cheaper if anything since there is no need for its own presentation box and also the serious drop in the price of gold should make it even more cheaper... seems like CB have some explaining to do....


  • #129
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    The double sets for the last couple of years were sold for around 95, so the price has gone up by 35 this year even though the gold price and silver price has gone down. Because of the drop in the bullion price the cost of manufacture of these coins has probably dropped. However, the numismatic value of coins isn't related to the bullion value of the metal they are made from. So the price the CB charges becomes more of a question of supply and demand and as long as they can sell all the coins, they can charge as much as they want. Though they certainly seem to be making a much bigger margin on these coins than usual.

    I imagine they are also charging a premium for these coins as they expect them to be extremely popular and an extra premium as the double set is the only way to get the gold coin.


  • #130
    pawrick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭pawrick


    I won't be buying it anyhow - decided as soon as I saw the coin as I consider it boring looking. I only buy the ones I like the look of or in my opinion have a huge significance. I'm not trying to make money on them just some keepsakes for future generations. Price increase was also a part of that decision but would have bought if they tried something a bit different with the design.


  • #131
    Sitamoia
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Sitamoia


    pawrick wrote: »
    I won't be buying it anyhow - decided as soon as I saw the coin as I consider it boring looking. I only buy the ones I like the look of or in my opinion have a huge significance. I'm not trying to make money on them just some keepsakes for future generations. Price increase was also a part of that decision but would have bought if they tried something a bit different with the design.
    I said that to my friend too, that it didn't look great. I was thinking, I have every other one they brought out and I kinda have to get this. I was humming and hawing about it for awhile, but the price made my mind up for me.


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  • #132
    scoooby
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭scoooby


    No mention of the JFK coins on the Central Bank website coinsets page. I agree that it's not a particularly attractive coin. Price is certainly too high. 'Supply and demand' - I note that the 2012 proof coinset is €70 whereas the 2009 and 2007 ones are €80.


  • #133
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    scoooby wrote: »
    No mention of the JFK coins on the Central Bank website coinsets page. I agree that it's not a particularly attractive coin. Price is certainly too high. 'Supply and demand' - I note that the 2012 proof coinset is €70 whereas the 2009 and 2007 ones are €80.

    The JFK coin won't appear on the website until it is released to the public on the 27th. If they are going to increase the price for popular subjects like JFK then it would be nice if they decreased the price for less popular subjects.


  • #134
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Can the coins be ordered over the phone before the release date or do you need to post in the leaflet.


  • #135
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    hexosan wrote: »
    Can the coins be ordered over the phone before the release date or do you need to post in the leaflet.

    You do not have to post in the leaflet. You can just ring up and order them using a credit or debit card. I ordered mine yesterday.

    I think you are supposed to be on the mailing list before they will accept the order but I would imagine that they might just add you to the list if you are not on it and take the order anyway.


  • #136
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    Just to clarify the ordering procedure for anyone in doubt.

    People who have signed up to the Central Bank mailing list are sent out a mailshot about new coins. The mailshot arrives between a few days and a few weeks before the official release date. You can purchase the coins as soon as the mailshot is released, you do not have to wait until the launch date. The purchase can be made using a debit or credit card over the phone. This will guarantee that your coins are reserved. You can fill in the order form and post it in but this does not guarantee your order, as it might get lost in the post or may arrive after the coins are sold out. You would need to ring up a few days later to check that the order was processed.

    If you are not on the mailing list then you cannot order the coins until the official release date. On that date the coins will appear online and the online order form will be updated. Or you can go to the central bank on Dame Street and purchase them over the counter.

    The orders that were received from customers who are on the mailing list will not be shipped until after the release date regardless of when they were received. They usually try to ship the coins in the order that they received the orders. How long after the release date you will receive your order depends on how busy the central bank is.

    If you paid by debit or credit card the money for your order will be taken from your card on the day that they ship your coins.

    How quickly or slowly you submitted your order has no bearing on the certificate of authenticity number you will receive. They are packed randomly.


  • #137
    notuslimited
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭notuslimited


    Regarding people complaining about the price, is the price dictated by the fact that there is a gram of gold in the JFK coin compared to .5 of a gram in the JJ coin?


  • #138
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    notuslimited wrote: »
    Regarding people complaining about the price, is the price dictated by the fact that there is a gram of gold in the JFK coin compared to .5 of a gram in the JJ coin?

    I assume you meant there was .5 gram of gold in the Michael Collins coin not the Joyce coin.

    That is a very good point. The JFK gold coin contains twice as much gold as the Michael Collins, Monastic Art or Celtic Cross gold coins did. In fact the last time there was a one gram gold coin was the Gaisce coin in 2010 and that sold for €58 at the time.

    Looking at it that way the price does seem a lot more reasonable. Obviously there is still a huge mark up in comparison to the bullion value of the gold (or silver) but that has always been the case with these coins and the recent drop in bullion values seems to have been completely ignored. However these are collectible coins not bullion coins.

    So the JFK silver coin being €50 is only €4 more than the Joyce coin was and if we consider the gold JFK to cost €80 (130 minus 50) then that is €30 more for twice as much gold as we have been getting for the last three years.


  • #139
    pawrick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭pawrick


    notuslimited wrote: »
    Regarding people complaining about the price, is the price dictated by the fact that there is a gram of gold in the JFK coin compared to .5 of a gram in the JJ coin?

    Thanks for that info. hadn't noticed the difference


  • #140
    Blade
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blade


    DMcL1971 wrote: »
    and the recent drop in bullion values seems to have been completely ignored

    Great points guys, I was wondering why nobody was mentioning the fact that there was twice the amount of gold in this new coin. But I'm sure overall there's still an increase in price as I've noticed since 2002 they've been pushing the prices up on everything. You used to be able to get UNC loose coin sets from them at face value plus 20 Euro handling fee per order, now they charge more than twice the face value per set.

    As regards the bullion value of gold, I'm thinking that it may be possible that these coins were commissioned before the recent drop in gold prices. I could be wrong, but just a thought...


  • #141
    notuslimited
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭notuslimited


    You have got to remember that the CBI issues coins on behalf of the Minister for Finance - who sets the price. The CBI does not make a penny for itself, all costs and revenues of the Collector Coin Unit are netted off and the proceeds go to Finance.


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  • #142
    MasterSun
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭MasterSun


    notuslimited wrote: »
    You have got to remember that the CBI issues coins on behalf of the Minister for Finance - who sets the price. The CBI does not make a penny for itself, all costs and revenues of the Collector Coin Unit are netted off and the proceeds go to Finance.

    I doubt this is the case.

    Finance 101:
    1. Commemorative coins have a face value, they are legal tenders in Ireland.
    So an extra silver commemorative coin means an extra 10 euro for the Irish money market.

    2. ECB rule on quantity of money: None of the Euro member state can increase its money supply without the approval of the ECB.

    To my knowledge, the department of finance and the central bank of Ireland (CBI) are two separate entities. The minister for finance can only seek permission from the CBI to issue a commemorative coin, he can not interfere with the CBI business (a modern CB should be independent from political pressure and all), therefore he can not set the price.

    If the fin minister had the power to issue commemorative coin and set the price, there would not be a recession in Ireland. Each time our GDP about to take a dip, the minister would fix it by ordering a large quantity of commemorative coins from Finland or Dutch mint and selling them at a price he pleases, such action would be an equivalent of a quantitative easing policy.


  • #143
    notuslimited
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭notuslimited


    Hi MasterSun. Page 74 of the CBI annual report for 2012 states the following: The Bank, as agent for the Minister for Finance, issued a number of collector coin products during 2012 to mark significant events in Irish history, heritage or culture.

    What do you make of that?


  • #144
    notuslimited
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭notuslimited


    Hi MasterSun.

    Please also take a look at the following note in the CBI accounts, page 112 Note G to be precise.

    Coin Provision and Issue
    The Bank is involved in the production and issuance of coin on behalf of the Minister for Finance. Proceeds and expenses relating to the provision and issue of coin are transferred directly to the Currency Reserve under the provisions of the Coinage Act, 1950, the Decimal Currency Acts, 1969-1990 and the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998. The cost of production of coin is charged to the Currency Reserve in the year in which it is incurred. Proceeds from the issue of coin are credited to the Currency Reserve in the year they are received (Note 25). Section 14A of the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998 (as inserted by Section 137 of the Finance Act, 2002) which came into operation on 25 March 2002 provides for the net proceeds from the issue of coin, from 1 January 2002, to be passed directly to the Exchequer as directed by the Minister for Finance (Note 25(ii)). Where the net proceeds of coin issue, together with expenses, result in a net cost to the Bank, the Minister reimburses the difference to the Bank.


  • #145
    MasterSun
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭MasterSun


    notuslimited wrote: »
    Hi MasterSun.

    Please also take a look at the following note in the CBI accounts, page 112 Note G to be precise.

    Coin Provision and Issue
    The Bank is involved in the production and issuance of coin on behalf of the Minister for Finance. Proceeds and expenses relating to the provision and issue of coin are transferred directly to the Currency Reserve under the provisions of the Coinage Act, 1950, the Decimal Currency Acts, 1969-1990 and the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998. The cost of production of coin is charged to the Currency Reserve in the year in which it is incurred. Proceeds from the issue of coin are credited to the Currency Reserve in the year they are received (Note 25). Section 14A of the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998 (as inserted by Section 137 of the Finance Act, 2002) which came into operation on 25 March 2002 provides for the net proceeds from the issue of coin, from 1 January 2002, to be passed directly to the Exchequer as directed by the Minister for Finance (Note 25(ii)). Where the net proceeds of coin issue, together with expenses, result in a net cost to the Bank, the Minister reimburses the difference to the Bank.

    thanks for the info.
    i was wrong


  • #146
    billymc1
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭billymc1


    does anyone thing the jfk coin set is worth buying ?


  • #147
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    MasterSun wrote: »
    i was wrong

    Well there's something you never see on the Internet. You need to be commended for that.


  • #148
    notuslimited
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭notuslimited


    No Problem MasterSun, as a beancounter, I tend to read annual reports with some interest. Being a coin collector, those particular notes in the accounts stuck in my head.


  • #149
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    I was told JFK coins are selling fast and could be sold out by early next week, I assume they set aside a qty for the counter on release day so I was curious to know was anyone ever told over the phone that a particular popular coin was no longer available to order and you could only purchase one on the day of issue?? Does anyone know how many they set aside? is it 50/50?
    Cheers


  • #150
    Spocker
    Moderators Posts: 6,851 ✭✭✭Spocker


    billymc1 wrote: »
    does anyone thing the jfk coin set is worth buying ?

    I'm only buying it to keep my collection complete, not because it's a great coin, or that it'll sell out...


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  • #151
    signostic
    Registered Users Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭signostic


    When would the CB start to send out orders?


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