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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    No 11 in the last month.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    There have been 10 attacks on churches in France in the past 3 weeks or so. From vandalism, to smearing s**t on the walls to fires being set in two of them i believe.

    This one makes 11.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Thank you for the explication.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Cass wrote: »
    There have been 10 attacks on churches in France in the past 3 weeks or so. From vandalism, to smearing s**t on the walls to fires being set in two of them i believe.

    This one makes 11.

    How do we know it was an attack on the church?

    My money is on incompetent builders doing the renovation work.

    Sad whatever caused it. Gone forever now.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How do we know it was an attack on the church?
    We don't and i'm not saying it was. Too early to make any assumptions.

    My post might have seemed liked i was inferring that, but i was only noting that this was the 11th church destroyed or damaged in the last few weeks, and the previous 10 were as a result of vandalism and purposeful acts.
    Sad whatever caused it. Gone forever now.
    True.

    800 years of history, art, etc. gone.
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It was three previous churches/cathedrals that were set on fire. Saint Sulpice church in Paris was lit on fire just last month. The month before that an attack on St. Nicholas in northern france, and another fire lit in Saint Alain cathedral in south-central france.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Sounds like a developing pattern. Hopefully there will be a LOT of CCTV around the place, it it hasn't been destroyed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Did Quasimodo get out ok??:p

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Yeah, he used "THE BELLS".










    Too soon?
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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    What a great meme/poster by th UK FirearmsUk.org group.I'll see if we can get permission to modify it to use it for Ireland, as we are pretty much on par with conditions of license granting.

    LATER.
    Go right ahead and use it..Firearms UK.org have okay'd it. They just ask if you do to give them a small credit on any posters,memes,etc for public display?[IE "original design from Firearmsuk.org" Which is fair enough I think.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Meanwhile, over in New York................

    Yep, this genius apparently wanted to torch a cathedral:

    It's hard to say exactly what his intentions were, but I think the totality of circumstances of an individual walking into an iconic location like St. Patrick's Cathedral carrying over four gallons of gasoline, two bottles of lighter fluid and lighters is something that we would have great concern over," Miller said. "His story is not consistent."

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...ks-church/ar-BBW2Yh2?li=BBnbcA1&OCID=AVRES000


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    What a great meme/poster by th UK FirearmsUk.org group.I'll see if we can get permission to modify it to use it for Ireland, as we are pretty much on par with conditions of license granting.

    LATER.
    Go right ahead and use it..Firearms UK.org have okay'd it. They just ask if you do to give them a small credit on any posters,memes,etc for public display?[IE "original design from Firearmsuk.org" Which is fair enough I think.

    Remember that this website HAS some inaccuracies in the 'facts'. It states that target handgun shooting in UK is banned.

    That is patently nonsense, as black powder target handguns are VERY popular on mainland UK, absent just about everything else. So is the target shooting of air pistols of all kinds.

    They, like many before them, have overlooked that Northern Ireland, where handguns of all kinds ARE allowed, is still part of the United Kingdom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    After Ol Moanie Joanie Burtons comments in the Dail about further gun control in Ireland post NZ.We should blizzard her offices with postcards,letters and emails of this below.[Obviously without the Union Jack bit and maybe in green and orange,with her Dail omments added ,so she knows where and what it is about
    ]

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Tac
    The idea of this is to get the message out,that we are not the problem,its the criminal misuseof firearms that are the problem.

    Yes there ARE differences,but lets not let the tryanny of small differences ruin the PRETINENT point that as a gunowner in ROI,UK,NI,etc,YOU are a vetted and checked out citizen/subject by a police force,medical professional,and are vetted by them to own a firearm.IOW you give up a Hell of a lot of individual rights and privacy for your hobby.Something NO other ASFIK sport or hobby requires you to do in the Western world.
    If someone was intrested ,in shall we call it the "anorack details" of the differences between the three countries,rhen we will of course obligingly tell them XYZ,is or isnt available where ever or whenever.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,601 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    After Ol Moanie Joanie Burtons comments in the Dail about further gun control in Ireland post NZ.We should blizzard her offices with postcards,letters and emails of this below.[Obviously without the Union Jack bit and maybe in green and orange,with her Dail omments added ,so she knows where and what it is about
    ]


    They'll be sounding off with all types of sh*te with the Euro/Council elections next month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yup,and just remember these MEPs from Ireland who voted FOR the EU gun ban when they pitch up at your door,and you are in the polling booth.

    RELAND***

    In the light of incoming EuroParl elections, I would like to take a chance and remind you which Irish MEPs voted FOR the EU Gun Ban in March 2017.

    #eugunban #firearmsunited #gunownersremember #wearethegunlobby

    Please spread the word among voters

    Nessa CHILDERS
    Deirdre CLUNE
    Luke Ming FLANAGAN
    Brian HAYES
    Seán KELLY
    Mairead McGUINNESS

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Sort of'on topic' rather than off topic, but a quick question:
    S.I. 21/2008 has a section as follows:
    (c) the following long firearms (not being assault rifles or bullpup rifles):

    (i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length is greater than 90 centimetres,

    (ii) single-shot, repeating or semi-automatic rim-fire firearms designed to fire rim-fire percussion ammunition and with a magazine having a capacity of not more than 10 rounds,

    Is that to say they aren't specifying a calibre limit for rimfires? Amendments after this don't seem to mention it either.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    SI337/2009 amends SI 21/2008 to specify 0.22 inch long rifle rimfire ammunition.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Cass wrote: »
    SI337/2009 amends SI 21/2008 to specify 0.22 inch long rifle rimfire ammunition.

    I missed that bit. If that supercedes 4.(2)(e) would it not mean that 4.(2)(c) is unchanged? Is the (e) section not just for short firerarms? Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question, the way these are written annoys the hell out of me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    tac foley wrote: »
    I guess that I'm very lucky in that respect, as my MP is the chairman of the British Shooting Council and a keen game shooter.

    These are MEP's Tac...The shower in Brussels where all the "grown ups" make decisions for the rest of us.:(

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Ah, true. After BREXIT there won't be ANY UK MEPs, though, not that we see or hear anything about them, apart from how much money they are raking in on our behalf, poor souls that they are.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    kowloon wrote: »
    If that supercedes 4.(2)(e) would it not mean that 4.(2)(c) is unchanged? Is the (e) section not just for short firerarms? .
    Not dumb, you're spot on.

    I misread your original post and never copped the rifle bit. I only saw the rimfire which lads thought meant they could have a 22 magnum pistol etc.

    4(2)(c) remains unchanged.

    However i've re-read your original post:
    kowloon wrote: »
    Is that to say they aren't specifying a calibre limit for rimfires?
    What do you mean when you say caliber limit.

    Rimfires are, well, rimfires. Any cartridge that used rimfire ammunition (22lr, 17hmr, 22magnum, etc, etc.). If it's semi auto or bolt action of any rimfire caliber then it can only have ten round mags as an unrestricted firearm and anything more would require a restricted license.

    Funnily enough semi auto centrefires automatically restricted regardless of mag size, but bolt action centre fires have no mag limit. Not sure if it's an oversight when drafting the SI, but you could have a bolt action centrefire rifle with a 30 round mag. Would look stupid but it's legal.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭yubabill


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Yup,and just remember these MEPs from Ireland who voted FOR the EU gun ban when they pitch up at your door,and you are in the polling booth.

    RELAND***

    In the light of incoming EuroParl elections, I would like to take a chance and remind you which Irish MEPs voted FOR the EU Gun Ban in March 2017.

    #eugunban #firearmsunited #gunownersremember #wearethegunlobby

    Please spread the word among voters

    Nessa CHILDERS
    Deirdre CLUNE
    Luke Ming FLANAGAN
    Brian HAYES
    Seán KELLY
    Mairead McGUINNESS

    Not a fan, but Luke Ming supported us during the gun ban - I spoke/emailed his secretary several times and got unequivocal support for us from Ming - the EU pulled the rug from under the MEP's and I think he was backed into a corner.

    The real opposition to shooters came from EU Parliament vice chair Mairead McGuinness, who initially seemed supportive, but did a complete volte face AFTER she spoke with the then-MoJ and now MEP candidate FRANCES FITZGERALD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    yubabill wrote: »
    Not a fan, but Luke Ming supported us during the gun ban - I spoke/emailed his secretary several times and got unequivocal support for us from Ming - the EU pulled the rug from under the MEP's and I think he was backed into a corner.

    The real opposition to shooters came from EU Parliament vice chair Mairead McGuinness, who initially seemed supportive, but did a complete volte face AFTER she spoke with the then-MoJ and now MEP candidate FRANCES FITZGERALD.

    Absolutely 100% correct...Depending on perspective...As it stood it in the end it was a sort of Mike Collins and the treaty situation for us at that point.The "republican side" wanted to get everyone to vote to collapse the EU gun ban as unworkable.But the risk was they would,and proably will,come back with something worse in three years time. Or as Ming and others did,was to accept the proposed EU gun ban legislation,as it stood,which had been seriously waterd down from original proposals thru a hard slog. So it depends on your personal outlook on this. Mine was take what we had gained,and come back another day for more.Collapsing the vote,if it had been possible,could have given us a much worse legislation...Dont worry,it is still a cause of many a robust discussion on the FUN council.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Cass wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say caliber limit.

    Rimfires are, well, rimfires. Any cartridge that used rimfire ammunition (22lr, 17hmr, 22magnum, etc, etc.). If it's semi auto or bolt action of any rimfire caliber then it can only have ten round mags as an unrestricted firearm and anything more would require a restricted license.

    I meant the limit that seems to be for centrefire of 7.62mm/.308 before it's considered restricted. The likes of .44 Henry are well over that but are rimfires, I was wondering if they were in any way under a calibre restriction of their own.
    Funnily enough semi auto centrefires automatically restricted regardless of mag size, but bolt action centre fires have no mag limit. Not sure if it's an oversight when drafting the SI, but you could have a bolt action centrefire rifle with a 30 round mag. Would look stupid but it's legal.

    Straight pull AR lookalikes are considered Assault rifles because they look like assault rifles, but 'trench mag' bolt actions would fit the bill.

    c9c750ef08f313f55c2b4f4db35ded69.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Funnily enough semi auto centrefires automatically restricted regardless of mag size, but bolt action centre fires have no mag limit. Not sure if it's an oversight when drafting the SI, but you could have a bolt action centrefire rifle with a 30 round mag. Would look stupid but it's legal.

    Correct,and SACF being restricted under national law have No mag capacity restriction.However now under EU law,they become Cat A [prohibited] if a mag is inserted with over 10 rounds capacity or 20 rounds if the gun is under 60 cms.With the 10 round mag they are CAT B firearms.However,if your shooting sport is a nationally recognised disipline that requires more than 10 rounds in a rifle ,you can get an exemption which must be recognised bythe EU nd national liscensing body....Go figure.
    Straight pull AR lookalikes are considered Assault rifles because they look like assault rifles, but 'trench mag' bolt actions would fit the bill.

    They might be "considerd":rolleyes: "assault rifles":rolleyes: But it would be a laugh for them to try and explain it in a court.They are bolt action rifles no matter how you look at it,and it would mean rifles like the Blaser tactical,etc are then considerd "assault rifles" if they were tarted up with tactical bits.Plus they would be the first bolt action rifles in history to have a select fire function.

    Also,there are now plenty of mag fed bolt actions out there these days with after market high capacity capability.Mossberg,makes a whole line of them.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    They might be "considerd":rolleyes: "assault rifles":rolleyes: But it would be a laugh for them to try and explain it in a court.They are bolt action rifles no matter how you look at it,and it would mean rifles like the Blaser tactical,etc are then considerd "assault rifles" if they were tarted up with tactical bits.Plus they would be the first bolt action rifles in history to have a select fire function.

    You don't get it Grizzly, if it looks like the thing it is the thing, says it right there in the law ;)
    “assault rifles” means—

    (a) rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic firearms and as automatic firearms,

    (b) firearms that resemble such rifles;


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    And now, of course, we can fully expect to see a rush of criminals into all our gun stores, trying to find ten-round magazines for their AK47/74 'assault rifles' - no wonder they are so hard to find for those of us who are LICENSED by the authorities of our respective governments.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    kowloon wrote: »
    I meant the limit that seems to be for centrefire of 7.62mm/.308 before it's considered restricted. The likes of .44 Henry are well over that but are rimfires, I was wondering if they were in any way under a calibre restriction of their own.
    Ah. Gotcha.

    There are no "restrictions" as such, but as you pointed out the likes of a Henry 0.44 is a rimfire but is also rimfire. This is for two reasons. It's a handgun cartridge and the bullet is over 7.62/.308.

    Remember that restricted and unrestricted work on bullet size/diameter and not chambering. It's the reason why .308, 30-06, 300WM are all unrestricted as are .303 Enfield. However some of the older Enfields (and someone with more knowledge than me can confirm this) are actually over .308 in diameter and lads have had trouble licensing them as unrestricted because they technically are 0.309 or even 0.310, hence restricted.
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