How to deal with an anti-vax / covid scam / anti 5G mother?

LegacyUser · 21-10-2020 12:03pm #1

My mother has started to send me links to covid conspiracy videos. They are not the extreme type, comparing the lockdown to the nazis etc. but she might be going down this route.

She has told me not to get the vaccine when it comes out.

She has sent me petitions to ban 5G.

Literally everything on the planet gives you cancer.

etc etc you know the deal.

It's getting very annoying now. I wish I could go home and talk about normal stuff. Glenroe. The weather. Whatever.

What do you guys talk about with your mothers?

We do talk about the normal things... but I know in the back of her head she is dying to get the small talk over and done with and discuss the "real" issues. And when she does, we end up fighting. She lives alone and doesn't really like socializing so she's basically living in her own bubble with nobody to argue against her. So when I tell her it's a load of nonsense, it's basically the only time she hears the opposite view and she gets very angry.

I am thinking about pretending to be an anti 5G person just so when I go to visit her or talk to her on the phone I can agree with everything she says so we don't argue.

Sardonicat · 21-10-2020 1:05pm

hedwrecked12345 wrote: »

My mother has started to send me links to covid conspiracy videos. They are not the extreme type, comparing the lockdown to the nazis etc. but she might be going down this route.

She has told me not to get the vaccine when it comes out.

She has sent me petitions to ban 5G.

Literally everything on the planet gives you cancer.

etc etc you know the deal.

It's getting very annoying now. I wish I could go home and talk about normal stuff. Glenroe. The weather. Whatever.

What do you guys talk about with your mothers?

We do talk about the normal things... but I know in the back of her head she is dying to get the small talk over and done with and discuss the "real" issues. And when she does, we end up fighting. She lives alone and doesn't really like socializing so she's basically living in her own bubble with nobody to argue against her. So when I tell her it's a load of nonsense, it's basically the only time she hears the opposite view and she gets very angry.

I am thinking about pretending to be an anti 5G person just so when I go to visit her or talk to her on the phone I can agree with everything she says so we don't argue.

Well, you can't visit now for 6 weeks so that's taken a bit of pressure off! State simply and calmly that you don't agree with her views, you've had the disagreement already and have no wish to go over them again. If she pushes her point after that end the conversation immediately 'I'm not having this conversation with you again so I'm going now. Call me if you need anything. Love you Mam. Bye'

TP_CM · 21-10-2020 5:37pm

Or tell her you're sick of that news and you don't want to have that content or those conversations. You could say that quite casually in a response to one of her texts and it should work. Being blunt about things isn't as bad as a lot of people think.

Caranica · 21-10-2020 6:33pm

Send her the RTE video of the young man who had to learn to walk again after Covid. Or one of hundreds of articles about others who've had it, or stories of people who've lost loved ones. Surely she has some compassion.

A very close person to me had it in the Spriing and has been diagnosed with life altering conditions 6 months later. They're not even 30, really fit, no underlying conditions. Their life will never be the same. It is no scam.

DonnaDarko09 · 21-10-2020 11:54pm

Sounds a lot like my mother. I laugh off most of it but if I’m not in the mood, I just tell her I don’t want to discuss As I do not agree. End of.
Some older people are set in their ways and views, and there is no use arguing.
Live and let live.

Tork · 21-10-2020 11:55pm

There are articles on the internet about how to deal with somebody who has turned into a conspiracy theorist. There doesn't seem to be any magic bullet to stop them from going down the rabbit hole but maybe you could heed this

4. ...engage gentle private dialogue not to argue facts, but to encourage doubts. Believers in these things inherently have doubts – even if they’re buried deep – because verifiable proof doesn’t exist to support the cult’s claims. Try questioning responses such as: “There seem to be a lot of holes in this theory, don’t you think?”, “I’m not sure we should really trust an anonymous source, are you?”, “Don’t you think there’d be more evidence out there if this were true?”

LegacyUser · 22-10-2020 12:53pm

Caranica wrote: »

Send her the RTE video of the young man who had to learn to walk again after Covid. Or

Which video?

Xterminator · 22-10-2020 1:23pm

Im afraid you are on a hiding to nothing here. It doesn't really matter what you say to mum. If your aim is to convert her to a sensible functioning person who can critically assess information received, and manage to overcome personal bias and cognitive dissonance to form a sensible reasoned opinion, well its just not going to happen.

My advice would be to simply use a strategy that allows you to remain true to your beliefs but minimises arguments and ill feeling in your interactions with mum.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

― Mark Twain

LegacyUser · 22-10-2020 1:53pm

Anytime she starts just go thats nice and change the subject. There's no point in trying to reason with crazy. Even engaging with her on the topic is validating it for her.

Caranica · 22-10-2020 1:58pm

hedwrecked12345 wrote: »

Which video?

This one.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1001/1168767-covid-19-dublin-teenager/

Airyfairy12 · 22-10-2020 9:53pm

Show her the videos on Youtube of the hundreds of Ecuadorian bodies dead on the streets, burning in bins, kept in kitchen freezers, rotting in rooms of the family house because there's no one to take away the high numbers of dead bodies so families are left to deal with and dispose of their dead loved ones.

I think that all these anti lockdown covid deniers should be made to work in health care during the pandemic instead of quite happily claiming the 350 a week.

qwerty13 · 23-10-2020 2:11am

That would drive me nuts. There’s almost an evangelical quality to it, the need to go on and on about it, to convince others of their strong beliefs. Like it’s a substitute for religion!

All I can think of is trying to shut the ‘discussion’ down, but in a gentle way if you can (as maddening as that may be). I don’t think either of you are ever going to convince the other. So I guess it comes down to is it really worth getting into a heated argument about it. I think not - but I would absolutely not pander to that cr*p being spouted at me. Could you just say something like “you know my views Mam, you’re not going to convince me, so let’s talk about something else”. So a way to move on, without criticism, but also shutting down the preaching to you?

If that fails, I’d tell her that you just find the whole COVID discussion depressing, and let’s talk about happier topics. The absolute furthest I’d go with her is agreeing that it’s strange times at the moment. But no specifics or engaging with her bonkers theories. Who knows, maybe it’s easier for some people to believe that it’s a giant conspiracy, as opposed to the harsh reality of it being a scary unpredictable illness that can easily take out most vulnerable, can have long term health consequences on the less vulnerable who survive it, and F the rest of us up economically and socially.

I know for me, I found the uncertainty of is it level 2, or 2.5, or what’s going to happen next very hard to deal with. In a way that I can’t quite explain, I find the (sort of) certainty of the mostly lockdown easier to handle. Maybe a belief in conspiracy theories gives your Mam some ‘certainty’ too (in an odd way). I think even though she and I would completely differ in our views, the commonality is wanting an explanation or a degree of control over a totally unpredictable and ‘life as we knew it’ altering situation.

cj maxx · 23-10-2020 2:38am

She sounds a bit like a couple of aunts of mine . Older ladies who ,being bored and find themselves with little direction ( retired, family reared) have discovered the internet.
The only things I can think of is to re-emphasise that there’s a lot of BS merchants online and not everything on FB is true

spurious · 23-10-2020 4:01am

She's frightened and she thinks she is helping and protecting you. If she is getting these videos/posts on Facebook, she will get more and more of them as she 'likes' or shares them. It all feeds into her fear.

I agree with cj maxx, some gentle education might help. Arguments will just convince her more that you have gone to the dark side.

simongurnick · 23-10-2020 4:03am

Tell her to cop on and not be a nutjob. We have a responsibility to each other to shoot this nonsense down at every opportunity otherwise this covid siht wont be gone for years

Simi · 23-10-2020 4:14am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Show her the videos on Youtube of the hundreds of Ecuadorian bodies dead on the streets, burning in bins, kept in kitchen freezers, rotting in rooms of the family house because there's no one to take away the high numbers of dead bodies so families are left to deal with and dispose of their dead loved ones.

Why aren't we seeing this on RTE? Irish news has become so insular over the course of the year, we rarely if ever hear about any other part of the world.

Of course conspiracy theorists are going to thrive if they're not forced to confront the grim reality of what's happening in countries that haven't been as lucky as we have.

For you OP, videos of people speaking about what has happened to them are most effective. Same as with the hpv vaccine. People respond to emotional stimulus far easier than scientific facts.

HildaOgdenx · 23-10-2020 7:45am

qwerty13 wrote: »

All I can think of is trying to shut the ‘discussion’ down, but in a gentle way if you can (as maddening as that may be). I don’t think either of you are ever going to convince the other. So I guess it comes down to is it really worth getting into a heated argument about it. I think not - but I would absolutely not pander to that cr*p being spouted at me. Could you just say something like “you know my views Mam, you’re not going to convince me, so let’s talk about something else”. So a way to move on, without criticism, but also shutting down the preaching to you?

If that fails, I’d tell her that you just find the whole COVID discussion depressing, and let’s talk about happier topics. The absolute furthest I’d go with her is agreeing that it’s strange times at the moment. But no specifics or engaging with her bonkers theories.

+1.
Say we have to agree to disagree, and let's talk about something else, things are depressing enough as they are, or something like that. Is there anything you could get her interested in, a tv series or books, anything that distracts her from that stuff, and that would provide a lighter topic of conversation?

Lots of people are struggling right now, for a variety of reasons, and the last thing anyone needs is getting dragged into arguments especially with their nearest and dearest, in my opinion.

Jequ0n · 23-10-2020 7:59am

Tell her that you don’t want to hear it and that she can talk to her likeminded morons about it. Then ignore her any time she brings up the topic. People generally get bored or uncomfortable with this and stop that carry on.
She’ll probably change her tune once she caught it herself

Oink · 23-10-2020 8:31am

I think when it comes to conspiracies like say Covid etc., it’s rarely about Covid.
What I hear when they’re talking is: “I’m afraid that my life is irrelevant, that my skills or capabilities etc. are not valuable.”

They’re looking for validation, for self-worth. Therefore there is strictly no point in discussing Covid. They’re looking for the discussion, the validation. They’re not interested in being right or wrong.

So you’re going to need patience, love, as well as deflection and distraction.

[Deleted User] · 23-10-2020 10:53am

I’d have told her immediately when she sent that first item on it that it’s a load of absolute bull and don’t believe it or send me anything about it again or I would be questioning if everything was alright between her ears.

JustAThought · 23-10-2020 4:31pm

Alexandria Bitter Supermarket wrote: »

I’d have told her immediately when she sent that first item on it that it’s a load of absolute bull and don’t believe it or send me anything about it again or I would be questioning if everything was alright between her ears.

Why don’t you do what I did - send them a link or two to totally different but interesting podcasts on something they might be into and then try and discuss that with them? Ted talks are great as it is often ‘experts’ that do the talks and once you watch one they line up a few more for you to try next. Maybe email her the ten most populat ted talks - lots of diversity there & something might stick. Wired and Womens Way also did great articles on the best podcasts - with links - everything from Dr Death the serial killer neurosurgeon (yes!) to crime to trucking across America - lots to distract her with!!

Some people only like to discuss things and maybe covid & G5 being popular she has latched into these. you could also distract her with boards or reddit - thou that might be throwing more loons into the mix!!

We had a total conspiracy theorist LOON in work - I got collared by him one day and out of politeness let him have his say. It lasted over an hour - people were walking by and roaring laughing at me. After it became apparent he was a nutjob & no rational argument made sense to him I just let him have his monologue and just kept making mmm noises. He eventually ran out of steam. He later profoundly thanked me for listenjng to him as everyone thought he was mad and it felt great for him to be heard and not shouted down for once. I kept nodding and smiling & saying mmmmm. Some people may be crazy believers but they also want to belong and be loved.

As regards my own mother after listening to months and months of the same monologue half hour rant about a neighbours garden & how it was designed wrong I finally lost it and interrupted her & told her so what some people have real problems let it go its none of your business. Its been 2 months going on 3 Nd ahe still hasn’t talked to me again yet. I guess some people just want to rant, and have nothing else in their lives too. Which brings me back to the point about people wanting to be listened to, valued and encouraged/heard. Mmmm might have been a better tactic at home for me!!!! (Even if what I said was entirely justified and true!)

valoren · 23-10-2020 6:36pm

All it takes is a pen and paper. When you meet her next have them ready and when she starts mouthing off about 5G take them out. Tell her that her phone uses 4G. Tell her to put it aside. Ask her to explain to you how 4G works using the pen and paper if necessary. It usually shows up such people's lack of grounding in complex but, in laymans terms, easy to grasp ideas. Radio EM waves, antennas, transistors etc.

If she hasn't a clue then tell her that you're not interested in listening about 5G conspiracy theories if she can't explain 4G in simple terms. Yes it might come across as you belittling her but she is belittling your intelligence by being a proponent of ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Emme · 24-10-2020 1:07am

Send your mother an avalanche of links to videos with the word "debunk" in them and a knowledgeable looking man (it has to be a man) wearing a white coat and spectacles. He will mention the words "science", "evidence", "peer review" and "reason" several times. He will have "Dr" or "Professor" in front of his name and "MD" or "PhD" after it. He is an authority on EVERYTHING.

Tell your mother that you have signed up to vaccine trials where a tracking chip is administered with the vaccine (it helps with track and trace apparently).

Why is she worried about 5G? 5G is primitive. 8G or 9G, that's where it's at. Tell your mother that when 10G comes on the scene tell your will be able to get a male robot called Walter who can clean the house, keep the garden and keep you secure among other things. You can interface with him via wi-fi and tell him to turn on the heating or cook dinner before you go home. With 10G, you will also be able to have full 3D conversations with holographic versions of your friends. As soon as they answer the phone a lifesize hologram of them will pop up and you can talk to the hologram. I think your mother might like this feature of 10G technology best.

If that's too much trouble then remember that mother knows best. Always.

ILoveYourVibes · 24-10-2020 5:25am

hedwrecked12345 wrote: »

What do you guys talk about with your mothers?

Well thankfully my mother is clever enough not to be like yours.

However If my mother is being an idiot I educate her.

And I also give her a fair truthful estimation of her deductive reasoning powers.

This can have one of two effects.

1. she realizes the limits of her brain power and education and accepts i am right.
2. The experience of being verbally bludgeoned by me was so unpleasant she never brings up the subject again with me.

And then we are both happy.

I don't suffer fools. I make them feel like fools. Then they know not to bring their foolishness around me.

If someone just genuinely doesn't know. I explain.

I do prefer to surround myself with wise people though. I mean there are different flavors of wisdom...but fools no...i can't deal.

happyday · 24-10-2020 8:19am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Show her the videos on Youtube of the hundreds of Ecuadorian bodies dead on the streets, burning in bins, kept in kitchen freezers, rotting in rooms of the family house because there's no one to take away the high numbers of dead bodies so families are left to deal with and dispose of their dead loved ones.

I think that all these anti lockdown covid deniers should be made to work in health care during the pandemic instead of quite happily claiming the 350 a week.

My friend is a midwife working in a big hospital and she's one of them.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-10-2020 2:30am

happyday wrote: »

My friend is a midwife working in a big hospital and she's one of them.

There are a lot of people in hospitals who are not the brightest.

But honestly OP tell her to leave you alone.

Some of these people are like Jehovahs Witnesses

Jequ0n · 25-10-2020 3:47am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well thankfully my mother is clever enough not to be like yours.

However If my mother is being an idiot I educate her.

And I also give her a fair truthful estimation of her deductive reasoning powers.

This can have one of two effects.

1. she realizes the limits of her brain power and education and accepts i am right.
2. The experience of being verbally bludgeoned by me was so unpleasant she never brings up the subject again with me. And then we are both happy.

I don't suffer fools. I make them feel like fools. Then they know not to bring their foolishness around me.

If someone just genuinely doesn't know. I explain.

I do prefer to surround myself with wise people though. I mean there are different flavors of wisdom...but fools no...i can't deal.

The beautiful thing about most idiots is that they are unaware of being one, and consider themselves particularly smart.

Grant Stevens · 25-10-2020 4:04am

Why can't I click on the op credentials??

Hannibal_Smith · 25-10-2020 8:12am

Grant Stevens wrote: »

Why can't I click on the op credentials??

The OP is posting anonymously

Pinch Flat · 25-10-2020 8:46am

Theres a lot of uncertainty and anxiety about since covid. Peoples natutral response is to try find somethibg that can explain or give a reason. Conspiracy theories give some people misinformation to process what can be difficult information to absorb.

Why not send on some factual non biased information? A lot of the claims can easily be debunked by independent fact checking websites. Although I recently had someone point out that the NWO/big pharma/rothchilds/bill gates (delete all or some of the wacky theories that apply) control these as well.

Failing that I'd wind her up and say that 5g is being used to beam the vaccine to everyone

Irishphotodesk · 25-10-2020 8:46am

OP, if you have Netflix, get your mother to sit and watch the social dilemma.

It might open her eyes to how social media operates and with that understanding you/she may see that some of the stuff posted online isn't accurate and sometimes it's an opinion masked as fact.

How to deal with an anti-vax / covid scam / anti 5G mother?

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