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Dublin Bikes Scam?

  • 04-12-2011 2:25pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭


    They say it's 10 euro for an annual membership. So I bought one today. My account is setup; I have an account number and a pin. It even says that I have no bikes out at this time and that my subscription ends on Dec 4th, 2012 (one year from today).

    However, it says I won't receive my membership card for up to 14 days. I went to a Dublin Bike terminal and there is no way to manually enter my membership information/pin to get a bicycle (that I could find. It simply said to swipe the card).

    Will the expiration date be updated when I first use the card....or are they really ripping me off 1/26 of my 10 euro 'annual' fee?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    Are you really going to be that petty?

    Far from a scam...


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭eyesquirm


    I personally think you're being ripped off.
    I would suggest calling to their head office in person and start swinging your fists.



    I work it out to be about 38.5 cent.
    Doesn't sound much, but if you were 38.5 cent short for to buy a pint its a lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    Write a strongly worded letter. Otherwise I am sure you have better things to be worrying about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Both these links will help you:

    Helpful Link.

    Other helpful link


  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭SONIC2008


    eyesquirm wrote: »
    I personally think you're being ripped off.
    I would suggest calling to their head office in person and start swinging your fists.



    I work it out to be about 38.5 cent.
    Doesn't sound much, but if you were 38.5 cent short for to buy a pint its a lot.
    haha well when you look at it that way its daylight robbery!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭spdmrphy


    chris85 wrote: »
    Write a strongly worded letter. Otherwise I am sure you have better things to be worrying about.

    Nah, it'd be best to call into them in person. (Stamps cost 55c)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    timmywex wrote: »
    Are you really going to be that petty?

    Far from a scam...

    The company advertised and charged me for a one year membership; but only sold me a 50 week membership.

    Why aren't *THEY* the petty ones? For me, it's only 38 cents. But 38 for each person who ever gets a membership...and suddenly we're talking thousands of euro that are being paid for a service nobody gets.

    You can't tell me that company isn't aware that it takes 14 days or so for people to start using their cards. There is no way to manually enter the subscriber number, they know you need the card. They say you need the card. They even tell you it can take 14 days.

    And yet, when they sell you a 'one year subscription' they start the subscription the day you pay. Even though they admit it will take ~14 days before you can use the service.

    Why don't you consider the *company* petty for this obvious oversight?

    A company can make a lot of money by screwing over a *lot* of customers a little bit. They know that 99% of the population will just say, 'Oh well, it's only a tiny bit, even if it is unfair, I won't do anything about it'. The company seems like the petty one to me.

    If I underpaid by 38 cents on every bill I've ever received; that would amount to a lot of money. If I did that, I'd be considered a criminal. Why should a big company be allowed to do what individuals cannot?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    [QUOTE=Robdude;[/QUOTE]


    :) You were just Rob dude ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Have you contacted them about this or just chosen to go directly to boards to rant?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Have you contacted them about this or just chosen to go directly to boards to rant?

    Yes, I've contacted them via their website (the same place where I signed up); I'm still awaiting a reply.

    Also, the goal of this post was to determine *IF* I should be ranting or not. There is a question mark in the title because I'm asking and I ended up initial post with, 'Will the expiration date be updated when I first use the card....or are they really ripping me off 1/26 of my 10 euro 'annual' fee?'


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Robdude wrote: »
    They say it's 10 euro for an annual membership. So I bought one today. My account is setup; I have an account number and a pin. It even says that I have no bikes out at this time and that my subscription ends on Dec 4th, 2012 (one year from today).

    However, it says I won't receive my membership card for up to 14 days. I went to a Dublin Bike terminal and there is no way to manually enter my membership information/pin to get a bicycle (that I could find. It simply said to swipe the card).

    Will the expiration date be updated when I first use the card....or are they really ripping me off 1/26 of my 10 euro 'annual' fee?


    Seriously?

    It's a tenner a year man. It would be good value at 5 times that price.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Go and get legal advice. See a solicitor if you have been ripped off.




    But it may cost you more than you get back


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Seriously?

    It's a tenner a year man. It would be good value at 5 times that price.

    Is it a tenner a year?
    Or is it a tenner for 50 weeks?

    If I have a year long lease - should my landlord be able to kick me out two weeks early and still charge me the same amount?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    Wow Robdude- this is the dumbest thread I've ever seen on boards.ie....judging from some earlier threads you've started its pretty clear that you think the world is out to get you...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Robdude wrote: »
    Is it a tenner a year?
    Or is it a tenner for 50 weeks?

    If I have a year long lease - should my landlord be able to kick me out two weeks early and still charge me the same amount?

    Point 1 is - They're not deliberately trying to rip you off. it's just an admin thing - so coming on and labeling it a scam comes across as a bit arsey TBH.

    Point 2 is - you'll get the full 52 weeks in subsequent years if you renew. I suppose you could pursue them for your 2 weeks if you want to, but IMO it's an excellent service and excellent value at the price - one of the few things we DON'T get ripped off on, so I think it would be rather petty.

    Just to clarify, if you pursue this you would be pursuing a claim of a value of around 40c. Hope you're not planning to get a solicitor on the case on a commission basis :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    drquirky wrote: »
    Wow Robdude- this is the dumbest thread I've ever seen on boards.ie....judging from some earlier threads you've started its pretty clear that you think the world is out to get you...

    I don't see why you'd think that; but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

    I don't believe I've been treated any differently than any other customer. I'd guess this is their standard practice. I do think companies like to make money and that sometimes they do so in less than honest ways.

    (Again, this is all assuming that they really don't reset the expiration date when they mail out the cards...)

    I am curious though; do you think this is the worst thread you've ever seen on boards.ie because *I'm wrong* - and 50 weeks is the same as one year or because *I'm behaving poorly* in response to a small/insignificant wrong?

    If you think I'm wrong; at what point do you see a problem? Is it that 50/52 is really close enough to 52/52 and if so, what percentage is the cut-off for a valid concern? Is it that ~30 cents is too small an amount to care about? If so, what is the minimum amount you think I should care about?

    If you think I'm behaving poorly in response to being legitimately wronged; do you think a post on an internet forum is extreme behaviour? What is an appropriate reaction in your opinion? If someone short-changes you for a small amount, do you not correct them? What if you see that the store clerk is short-changing EVERY customer; do you act then? At what point is a wrong bad enough to take some action (even a small one?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Point 1 is - They're not deliberately trying to rip you off. it's just an admin thing - so coming on and labeling it a scam comes across as a bit arsey TBH.

    Point 2 is - you'll get the full 52 weeks in subsequent years if you renew. I suppose you could pursue them for your 2 weeks if you want to, but IMO it's an excellent service and excellent value at the price - one of the few things we DON'T get ripped off on, so I think it would be rather petty.

    Just to clarify, if you pursue this you would be pursuing a claim of a value of around 40c. Hope you're not planning to get a solicitor on the case on a commission basis :D

    I understand that there are admin/processing times; but don't you think in the several years and thousands of customers they've had they'd be aware that it takes them a while to set it up?

    I do agree with point 2 - you are absolutely correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,811 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Point 1 is - They're not deliberately trying to rip you off. it's just an admin thing - so coming on and labeling it a scam comes across as a bit arsey TBH.

    Point 2 is - you'll get the full 52 weeks in subsequent years if you renew. I suppose you could pursue them for your 2 weeks if you want to, but IMO it's an excellent service and excellent value at the price - one of the few things we DON'T get ripped off on, so I think it would be rather petty.

    Just to clarify, if you pursue this you would be pursuing a claim of a value of around 40c. Hope you're not planning to get a solicitor on the case on a commission basis :D
    If you consider the deal that DCC signed for the bikes, is it still classified?, you'll see we got a very bad deal for a couple of hundred bikes.

    The OP has a point, it's just the amount is tiny. The company are charging customers for a service they can't use. They could also be hit by the advertising bodies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    I wouldn't call it a scam but it is not honest business either. You are promised and charged service on which they already know they can't deliver in full. Multiply it by thousands of users and you get a nice little earner on the side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,739 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    robdube is absolutely right


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    The total number of long-term users is about 37k, which works out at a total "ripoff" of about sixteen thousand quid - assuming that everyone ends up waiting the full two weeks, which is frankly extremely unlikely (think I got mine inside of a week). On top of that, for it to be a scam they'd have to be making money they otherwise wouldn't, which simply isn't happening. The most likely explanation for this is that it was administratively simpler to start the subscription the day the account is set up, and it quite literally never occurred to a single person working on it that anybody might get annoyed about a theoretical overcharging of less than forty cent. Get annoyed about it, but don't claim it's a scam, because that's a completely ridiculous thing to say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    The total number of long-term users is about 37k, which works out at a total "ripoff" of about sixteen thousand quid - assuming that everyone ends up waiting the full two weeks, which is frankly extremely unlikely (think I got mine inside of a week). On top of that, for it to be a scam they'd have to be making money they otherwise wouldn't, which simply isn't happening. The most likely explanation for this is that it was administratively simpler to start the subscription the day the account is set up, and it quite literally never occurred to a single person working on it that anybody might get annoyed about a theoretical overcharging of less than forty cent. Get annoyed about it, but don't claim it's a scam, because that's a completely ridiculous thing to say.

    What word would you recommend?

    According to Google:
    scam: A dishonest scheme; a fraud

    I would consider this a 'dishonest scheme' because they advertise a price for a specified time period of service while knowing that you can't possibly use the service for the entire duration.

    In my opinion, the use of the word scam is completely valid. And I believe the web dictionary definition supports that. I don't think it's *ridiculous* to call it a scam, or that a scam requires 'making money they wouldn't otherwise'.

    Still, maybe it was too strong a word and could explain people's reactions? I really don't know what word would be more applicable. I'm not saying this is a big deal or that the company should be shut down or sued or someone should be fired or we should boycott using Dublin bikes or even that I'm not going to use Dublin bikes. I still don't think it's honest or right; but at best it's a very small injustice. That doesn't mean it's not worth mentioning, IMHO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭Goose81


    Its a great service and obviously not a scam but tbf to the op he is right on the principal.
    Your membership should become active the first time you use your card.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭holystungun9


    spdmrphy wrote: »
    Nah, it'd be best to call into them in person. (Stamps cost 55c)

    Not sure about that, you haven't taken wear and tear of your shoes into account.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    Its an interesting one alright. Fire off an email and let us know how you get on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Robdude wrote: »
    What word would you recommend?

    According to Google:
    scam: A dishonest scheme; a fraud

    I would consider this a 'dishonest scheme' because they advertise a price for a specified time period of service while knowing that you can't possibly use the service for the entire duration.

    In my opinion, the use of the word scam is completely valid. And I believe the web dictionary definition supports that. I don't think it's *ridiculous* to call it a scam, or that a scam requires 'making money they wouldn't otherwise'.

    Still, maybe it was too strong a word and could explain people's reactions? I really don't know what word would be more applicable. I'm not saying this is a big deal or that the company should be shut down or sued or someone should be fired or we should boycott using Dublin bikes or even that I'm not going to use Dublin bikes. I still don't think it's honest or right; but at best it's a very small injustice. That doesn't mean it's not worth mentioning, IMHO.

    The reason I think it's ridiculous to call it a scam is because there has to be some form of intent for dishonesty or fraud to exist, and I doubt it occurred to a single person that they might be overcharging people at signup on the basis of the difference in time between signup and receipt of the card. Calling it a scam necessarily involves a degree of accusation, and I don't think any such accusation is warranted in the least. Pair that with the miniscule amount of money being discussed (an absolute maximum of less than forty cent, once in the entire life of your subscription) and it boils down to "Hey, we're technically losing a Taz bar thanks to the postal system of subscription to Dublinbikes", which is akin to being annoyed about being served 5ml too little coffee a day in your daily Americano thanks to a barista who's excessively careful about potential spillages.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Robdude wrote: »
    But 38 for each person who ever gets a membership
    Not me. Like thousands of others, I signed up in August 2009 so got my full year starting 13 September 2009, and each subsequent one.

    Mind you, I should probably make a claim for the interest they earned on my tenner for that month when they had been paid but weren't giving me any service.
    Robdude wrote:
    it says I won't receive my membership card for up to 14 days
    So less than 14 days then. They'll be ripping you off to the tune of less than 38c.

    When your card arrives, please do drop back with the new figure that they've taken you for. Just so we're all warned about how big a scam it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    The reason I think it's ridiculous to call it a scam is because there has to be some form of intent for dishonesty or fraud to exist, and I doubt it occurred to a single person that they might be overcharging people at signup on the basis of the difference in time between signup and receipt of the card. Calling it a scam necessarily involves a degree of accusation, and I don't think any such accusation is warranted in the least. Pair that with the miniscule amount of money being discussed (an absolute maximum of less than forty cent, once in the entire life of your subscription) and it boils down to "Hey, we're technically losing a Taz bar thanks to the postal system of subscription to Dublinbikes", which is akin to being annoyed about being served 5ml too little coffee a day in your daily Americano thanks to a barista who's excessively careful about potential spillages.

    I agree that it'd be silly to complain about 5ml of coffee missing; but I could see lots of reasonable explanations for that like the waitress was in a rush, or like you said, she/he was being careful to avoid a spill.

    But I would be upset is an entire factory producing '330 ml' cans of Pepsi were actually 317 ml. Not just one can, in error, but it was intentionally calibrated to distribute only 317 ml instead of 330; while the company advertised 330 ml on the outside of every can.

    I suppose the reason why I feel this is different is because it's not an accident and there is no advantage to this system. It's a computer system that sets your expiration date to one year from the date you sign up. They could make it any date. And there doesn't appear to be any reason for one date to be better than another date (but there is an advantage to not filling a glass to the absolute top). The same website says that it can take 14 days to recieve it.

    It would be just as easy to make it one year + 14 days (for example) because they say 'It will take 14 days' on their website. And then, the customer might get a few extra days. Or, they could make it one year from the first day you use your pass. Or, they could make it expire on the lessor of the first day you use your card or one year + 14 days.

    Now, I find it very hard to believe that out of everyone that worked on the website, works at the company, does customer support, and the 37k long-term users (according to desertcircus) that I'm the first person to see that the current solution is less than optimal and dishonest to the customers. So, maybe it is just my attention to detail that has now exposed this (admitedly minor) problem and upon seeing my e-mail they will update their system to the benefit of their customers. Or maybe they do, in fact, update the expiration date to one year after the first use (at this point nobody has been able to confirm or deny, so this is all speculation).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    BeerNut wrote: »
    Not me. Like thousands of others, I signed up in August 2009 so got my full year starting 13 September 2009, and each subsequent one.

    Mind you, I should probably make a claim for the interest they earned on my tenner for that month when they had been paid but weren't giving me any service.

    So less than 14 days then. They'll be ripping you off to the tune of less than 38c.

    When your card arrives, please do drop back with the new figure that they've taken you for. Just so we're all warned about how big a scam it is.

    I'm guessing you are being intentionally sarcastic; but if you decide to prepay for a service with the knowledge that you will not recieve interest - I do not think you should be able to make a claim for it. However; if they advertised that you would earn interest and then didn't provide it, I would agree with you.

    I am glad that not everyone was ripped off - so kudos to you.

    I'll be sure to update when I get the card or if I get a response from the company that is relevant to the thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭Andromeda_111


    I actually think OP has a point. I know it doesn't represent a lot of money but by the same token it offers a 1 year service but you can't avail of it for the full 1 year. By that token I think it's bad business practice, not really a scam, just a bad way to complete the admin. Maybe the 1 year start date should take place from the 1st time you use the card??

    Anyway, let us know what kind of response you get form them. FWIW I think it's an excellent service they provide. :D


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