What's the use?

SantaHoe · 04-05-2001 4:42am #1

Alright, I've just lost a huge post there... so here's the summary:
Irish is forced on us in school, many people have no interest in it... most people forget every word of Irish once they finish 6th year (myself included), there's little or no practical use for it outside of the classroom.
So... why bother forcing so many people to learn it just for the sake of times past?
Why not just leave it as an optional subject, for those who'd like to persue a historic or political vocation?
I'm 100% sure I'll never need to use Irish in any job I'll ever have.

Cake Fiend · 04-05-2001 5:02am

I went to All-Irish primary and secondary schools (my parents' decision the first time round, mine the second, because of friends going to that particular school). The fact that I was forced into learning the language left me with no respect for it. I could say that I'm proud to be Irish, and maybe if I had learnt the language out of choice (which realistically would never have happened) I could feel some sort of pride in it. As it is, I think of it as a useless, dead language and I don't see the point in keeping it 'alive' through force.
The last time I used the language was the Leaving Cert. and I don't see myself having any use for it in the future.

syringe · 05-05-2001 6:13pm

Some may not like it, but it's our national language and I think it'd be a very bad thing to lose it. A very bad thing indeed. We don't call it Ireland for nothing you know

If the leaves falling from the trees in Autumn were gold, or the white foam on the waves silver, Fionn would give it all away.

Bard · 05-05-2001 8:43pm

Originally posted by syringe:
Some may not like it, but it's our national language and I think it'd be a very bad thing to lose it. A very bad thing indeed. We don't call it Ireland for nothing you know

I don't quite follow you- what's the significance of the "Ire" bit?

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=Ire
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=A0009123

Ire - a synonym for 'anger';'wrath'

um... WhAt?!?!

Bard

"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

syringe · 06-05-2001 2:12pm

Yes, I lost the plot abit there

Ire, as in Irish, see?

Y'know what I mean anyway, it'd be a massive loss to a country to lose their language because ye lazy eejits don't like it

And did ya not see that ad with the 2 ones in the coffee thing and the guy sits down beside them and they start talking about him in Irish and he understands them?
0wn3d

And my signature came from the time when Irish was spoken, so there

God be with those days...

If the leaves falling from the trees in Autumn were gold, or the white foam on the waves silver, Fionn would give it all away.

Slydice · 06-05-2001 4:02pm

Originally posted by Bard:

Ire - a synonym for 'anger';'wrath'

um... WhAt?!?!

Does that mean if i says im gonna get Irish on your ass, its means im saying "im gonna kick yer ass"????????

qwidgybo · 07-05-2001 10:21pm

bhuel,if we lost irish,which would happen if it became and optional subject,all we would have left is english.DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT TO HAPPEN??REEEEEEEEALLY???

i really like the sound of "i'm about to get irish on your @ss"

qwidgybo

syringe · 07-05-2001 11:25pm

Just looking over a bit of history there, I know why. Irish is the first offical language of this nation, English is the second, according to Bunracht na hEireann. DE VALERA 0WNS J00R IRISH PANTS!

jArgHA · 08-05-2001 1:39pm

Lads,
This is probably gonna sound yer everyday yah-da yah-da but IMO its the truth. The reason why we attempt to keep up the tradition of speaking Irish (albeit in a small way) is out of respect for our history and heritage. We'd be a pack of sad ass sellout ba$terds if we forgot all our Irish roots and would have lost our own identity as a nation. That's the way I feel anyway altho that probably sounded like a lecture from Michael D Higgins or somethin...

Slán,
jAH

smoke.me.a.kipper · 08-05-2001 1:53pm

Originally posted by Slydice:
[Bim gonna get Irish on your ass[/B]

lol.

seriously, we can't get rid of it. it's part of who we are as a nation. [end remark]

"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"
-Nietzsche

tempis · 08-05-2001 8:28pm

I really have to agree. Granted, I enjoy the subject and went to an all-Irish secondary school by choice, and now having left school two years still keep it up, but even for those who hate the subject, it's part of who we are and where we came from. I never enjoyed history as a subject in school and that's forced upon us, but I still recognised the fact that all that has gone before was important to the way things are now, not just here in Ireland but around the world. Irish is in us all and it's imperative that we don't lose it.

Tuigim go h-iomlán. Admhaím go dtaitníonn an teanga liom agus go ndeachaigh mé ar meánscoil lán-ghaelach de rogha, agus go bhainim úsáid as fós agus mé imithe ón scoil dhá bhlian anois, ach fiú do na daoine gur fuath leo an ábhar, is páirt dínn é. Níor mhaith liom an stair ríomh agus mé ag freastal ar an scoil, ach ghlac mé leis gur fíor thábhachtach é gach rud a tharla cheanna féin i dtreo an slí atá an saol inniú agus ní amháin anseo in Éire. Tá an Gaeilge ionainn go léir agus tá sé so-thábahactach nach gcaillimid é

SantaHoe · 09-05-2001 2:57am

Originally posted by jArgHA:
...is out of respect for our history and heritage.

If that's the only reason to keep it, it's a pretty weak one. Let the past be the past.

We'd be a pack of sad ass sellout ba$terds if we forgot all our Irish roots

I'm not talking about all the elements of our Irish roots, just this one.
And selling out to whom? The English?!

and would have lost our own identity as a nation.

As I said above - this is IMO only a tiny part of our national identity.
More to the point - it's not a practical subject to be taught in schools, there's no need for it, and I don't see why so many schools force it upon their students.

Originally posted by: tempis
it's part of who we are and where we came from

IMO it's a part of who some of us are, and who most Irish people were.

The Scottish used to speak gaelic (or a form of), yet to the best of my knowledge it isn't being forced on Scottish school students.

Sure, a lot of you are glad you studied it, but many of us feel raped after all the years forced to study it against our will.
A free Ireland indeed.

[This message has been edited by Dead{o}Santa (edited 09-05-2001).]

Stephen · 09-05-2001 3:19am

I'm in sixth year. Doing ordinary level Irish for my leaving cert. I can tell you right now that i hate the subject and have no interest in it at all. It's going to be no use to me whatsoever after I leave school and I doubt I'll ever use it. It should not be forced upon students - It should be optional. Let those who want it learn it, but don't force-feed it to the rest of us. Irish may well be the "first" language of the nation but we all know that that is a pile of crap - Look at the national broadcaster, RTÉ - The vast majority of their programming is in ENGLISH - why? Because most Irish citizens don't speak their supposed first language!

About the comment above - History isn't compulsory after primary school afaik. It might be compulsory up to Junior cert level, I'm not sure, but it is most definately not required for the Leaving Cert.

Slydice · 09-05-2001 10:28am

Originally posted by tempis:
Níor mhaith liom an stair ríomh agus mé ag freastal ar an scoil, ach ghlac mé leis gur fíor thábhachtach é gach rud a tharla cheanna féin i dtreo an slí atá an saol inniú agus ní amháin anseo in Éire. Tá an Gaeilge ionainn go léir agus tá sé so-thábahactach nach gcaillimid é

An bhfuil a rá agat go bhfuil an gaeilge mar in gceanna le stair faoi an saghais tabhachtach a atá ann.?????

Caithaigh me aontaoinn leís an tuairim sin ach silím go mbeadh tú abalta nios mó a rá faoi na aiteanna a tagann an gaeilge as, agus go mbeadh tú abalta an tabhachtach a coimead ar, ach í slí ab b'feider leat e a cuir mar rúd fein.

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sorry if any bad grammer or speeling

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Puck · 09-05-2001 1:58pm

Originally posted by Slydice:
An bhfuil a rá agat go bhfuil an gaeilge mar in gceanna le stair faoi an saghais tabhachtach a atá ann.?????

Caithaigh me aontaoinn leís an tuairim sin ach silím go mbeadh tú abalta nios mó a rá faoi na aiteanna a tagann an gaeilge as, agus go mbeadh tú abalta an tabhachtach a coimead ar, ach í slí ab b'feider leat e a cuir mar rúd fein.

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sorry if any bad grammer or speeling
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I think we should keep our language because it is our herritage and well it's ours and it makes us different. Who wants to be the same as everyone else?

However I believe that the way it is taught in schools is completely wrong. Words are just force fed to kids only to be forgotten right after the exams! They read poetry and learn off stories before they even have the basic grammer to put a sentance together. The way Irish is taught is completely backwards! I did pretty good in Irish in both my Leaving and Junior Certs but because of the way it was taught to me I forgot it as soon as I didn't need it for exams anymore. I never really understood the basic grammer and as a result never really learned to speak it, only to make it look like I did on paper. As a result I haven't got a clue what the last post was about and that really bothers me. I would love to be able to speak Irish but I can't.

I have been trying to learn Irish since I was around 6 but I was only learning French since the age of 12. However the ways in which I was taught those languages were very different and because of this I can speak French way better than I can speak my own language. I would say that I am crap at both but I'm still better at French because I was taught the grammer of French and how to put a sentance together first before I started learning any stupid poems and stories off by heart. Come to think of it I never even had to learn any poems or stories off for French.

John (yes THE John!)

[This message has been edited by Puck (edited 09-05-2001).]

androphobic · 10-05-2001 12:23am

I think it would be a pity if Irish was made a choice subject.. although I understand that a lot of people don't like it.

I'm doing honours Irish for the Leaving, and there's only approx 12 ppl out of 100 doing Irish at higher level.. and there are a whole load of intelligent people in the year who could do it if they put their minds to it.
I think there's a sort of a stigma surrounding Irish.. possibly because it is obligatory, and a lot of people just have this thing against it.

Personally I'd love to do a degree in Irish but my employment opportunities would be limited afterwards.. so I think I'll stick to the European languages.. safer option.

Panda · 10-05-2001 1:20pm

Personally i dont like the langauge, but its probably bett that its kept going, it gives you a sense of being Irish.

If it was made an option for second level schools then youd see it disappear of the map.

On average, Irish teachers are **** tho, ive only ever met 1 decent teacher for the subject, compared to european language teachers anyway. Because of this i probably have more french than irish today.

Aka: Dragon,Sexual Harassment Panda, SCUMM.

Ex_hale · 10-05-2001 7:18pm

i live in the gaeltacht and have grown up with irish all my life and have also attended primary and post primary irish speaking schools. i think it takes a certain amount of experience to appreciate the language and the culture it brings with it, i know most people frown on it believing its useless and that theyll never use it but that choice rests with them, they can always use it if they want to! i dont think it should be a mandatory leaving search subject though, that choice should lie with the student but overall i wouldnt like to see the language die out,its an important part of our history and its great to be able to communicate in a different language once in a while, anyway i dont know what prompted me to post to this forum.. i guess i was just curious to see a board 'as gaeilge' and what ppl had to say about it

Beannachtaí

kieran

Magwitch · 14-05-2001 11:33pm

It is our national language, but not only are kids brough up to resent it but adults had to stand in dole queues or live in dumps when "native" speakers demanded on TV a cable car to the Aron Islands etc etc.

It is not the fault of most Irish speakers, but those who claim to speak, and do so very vocally, on their behalf. Attacks on people and property of those moving to Irish speaking areas have hardly helped the issue.

I hear an aweful lot about those "who hate" the irish language, but to be honest most of the xenophobia seems to come from those who claim to be the victems of that hate.

Keep your powder dry and your pants moist

acous · 15-05-2001 1:27am

Originally posted by Ex_hale:

kieran

taim go bhaile fanacht libh isteach san uisce teorrinna go maith ar sin sin go leor. leaba go raibh leaba mor madra ag snamh.

SHAMAN · 15-05-2001 5:29pm

I think we should still have to learn Irish but it should be removed from the Leaving Cert. as this is where everyone loses points here and having 2 pass it is ridiculous since we will most likely never use it

SantaHoe · 17-05-2001 6:03am

Originally posted by SHAMAN:
I think we should still have to learn Irish .... since we will most likely never use it

Bard · 17-05-2001 11:49am

I think his point, Santa, was that it's good to know our national language so that it stays alive somewhat, but it's unlikely to be needed practically, so shouldn't really be an examinable subject...

Fair point... I guess.

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

Hobbes · 17-05-2001 1:33pm

Irish is good if you want to get a goverment job as you get better marks if you do all the tests in Irish.

AFAIR you get +10% of your final score added.

It's also good if you want to watch TnG and are having problems with the english subtitles.

shaggy · 17-05-2001 8:38pm

shaggy · 17-05-2001 8:43pm

El Marco · 17-05-2001 11:50pm

WELL WITH irish we can slag of foreigners who speek english as well as their own language.
I mean wheres the fun in slaggin peeps if they know wat your sayin!!!

And most of europe speap english, I'm mean I dont want to be a robot and be the same as everyone else!!

WE'RE IRISH LETS KICK SOME NONE IRISH SPEEKIN *******!!

El Marco · 17-05-2001 11:51pm

FORGET MY SPANISH NAME AND ADDRESS :P

SHAMAN · 18-05-2001 4:41pm

Originally posted by Bard:

Fair point... I guess.

Thanx,Bard, That's exactly what i meant.
p.S. Sorry 4 being a psycho earlier on...

Slydice · 18-05-2001 7:25pm

Originally posted by El Marco:
WELL WITH irish we can slag of foreigners who speek english as well as their own language.

have to agrree with marco cos u know if ur in a foreign country their doing it to you, then the shocked look when we start speaking irish, and looking at them and laughing.

then they asked you what you were talking about and you say its an old joke or something funny that happened earlier

what a role reverrsal

muhuahhahahahaahahahahahaha

:

SantaHoe · 18-05-2001 8:47pm

Originally posted by Doc:
This is not a weak reason to keep it.

Well then, let's agree to disagree on that one.
Patriotism is one thing, spending hundreds(thousands?) of hours of your life learning a language you'll never use is entirely another.

Maybe you enjoyed learning it in school, and maybe you're proud that you can rattle off a quick phrase or two at some yank tourist, and maybe they'll think it's "just darling", and ask you if you've got any leprechauns... but I can think of a million more practical subjects I could have been learning over all those years.

What's the use?

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