Investment Firms Buying Estates

_ZeeK_ · 02-05-2021 6:15pm #1

Seeing reports of investment firms buying parts of estates or whole estates.

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/global-property-investment-firm-buys-most-of-170-home-estate-in-kildare-783922ac

Just wondering if anyone has come across this? E.g. buying a new home and discovering your neighbouring properties would be owned by private funds.

If so, how did you discover this? Presumably the developer isn’t obliged to disclose this information.

The Student · 02-05-2021 7:02pm

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

Seeing reports of investment firms buying parts of estates or whole estates.

Just wondering if anyone has come across this? E.g. buying a new home and discovering your neighbouring properties would be owned by private funds.

If so, how did you discover this? Presumably the developer isn’t obliged to disclose this information.

Developer does not have to disclose who is buying. Alot of approved housing bodies are purchasing multiple properties in new developments.

Chris_5339762 · 02-05-2021 8:07pm

Yes. My old apartment block was owned by the developer apart from five apartments which he'd sold. A Canadian firm bought the balance of apartments and offered to buy the five, which I think 2 or 3 took up the offer. The other two couldn't.

All good, new tenants to rent the 25 apartments? Nope. Canadian firm did a deal with Dublin City Council and filled all 25 up with social housing. Glad I got out of there.

Bervbers · 02-05-2021 9:24pm

It's.all for social housing

Lia_lia · 02-05-2021 9:45pm

Not for private tenants but I have experience of keeping an eye on a new build estate being built and it turning out to be all social housing. Checked planning and it was supposed to be a private estate with the usual part V allocation. I was even in touch with developers asking for updates but they never disclosed that it was social housing until I found out from neighbours and social media. I’ve heard this happening all over the country now.

Caranica · 02-05-2021 9:57pm

Lia_lia wrote: »

Not for private tenants but I have experience of keeping an eye on a new build estate being built and it turning out to be all social housing. Checked planning and it was supposed to be a private estate with the usual part V allocation. I was even in touch with developers asking for updates but they never disclosed that it was social housing until I found out from neighbours and social media. I’ve heard this happening all over the country now.

That happened in my greater development. A cluster launched to the public at the weekend and the Council bought it in its entirety on the Wednesday, totally contrary to their own social housing policy on avoiding ghettoisation. I'm lucky that it's far enough from me but the cluster across the road have had terrible problems. Only a handful of troublesome units but they've impacted so many more in their cluster and the neighbouring one.

mcsean2163 · 02-05-2021 10:59pm

I wonder when REITs, charities and government are going to stop buying houses. Prices are absolutely crazy.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-05-2021 8:32am

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I wonder when REITs, charities and government are going to stop by houses. Prices are absolutely crazy.

Rents are crazier so the REITs will continue, the government dont care so will continue and homeless inc. Need to keep the wheels turning so I dont see them stopping.

mcsean2163 · 03-05-2021 10:39am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Rents are crazier so the REITs will continue, the government dont care so will continue and homeless inc. Need to keep the wheels turning so I dont see them stopping.

The government don't have infinity money. They're already €160 million over budget for housing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cabinet-to-be-warned-public-spending-levels-are-unsustainable-1.4548376?mode=amp

The REITS are buying to rent to the government at exorbitant rates ai those rate are locked in for 20 years or whatever. As soon as the government stops their buying program the market can drop as they no longer need to scam the government and there's no private market for €1500 1 beds in ballyfermot.

https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-apartment-1-killeen-court-ballyfermot-dublin-10/2936984

_ZeeK_ · 03-05-2021 11:43am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Rents are crazier so the REITs will continue, the government dont care so will continue and homeless inc. Need to keep the wheels turning so I dont see them stopping.

Agree.

Concern is, with buying, if you end in among such a development, the social fabric of such an area will be lacking. If people know they’re temporary they won’t be invested in the area. Community vibe will be missing, pride in general upkeep will be lacking, etc.

I once rented in one of those big developments near Dublin Docklands - Fun while you’re young but it felt like a holiday camp rather than a home. The thing about that location is - it’s obvious that will be the case.

However, now we have funds buying developments in the suburbs and commuter belts so it’s going to be much less obvious at first glance. You want community and a fixed population rather than temporary groups, with precarious protections on tenure, coming and going.

So, what’s best way to keep tabs on this and avoid realising you’ve landed yourself in this sort of situation after it’s too late?

handlemaster · 03-05-2021 1:09pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I wonder when REITs, charities and government are going to stop buying houses. Prices are absolutely crazy.

This also means when will they start building houses ? Not going to happen.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-05-2021 1:24pm

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

So, what’s best way to keep tabs on this and avoid realising you’ve landed yourself in this sort of situation after it’s too late?

I preface my remarks by saying I live in an area that was traditionally social housing and some still is, everyone is on edge when the council buys a place as you've no idea who they're going to put in.

In answer to your question I have no idea I'm afraid. I know I wouldn't want to be buying on a new estate knowing that the majority could be bought up by the council or a REIT which mark my words will end up being sold off wholesale to the likes of the council or this long term rental malarkey when the tide begins to turn.

Frankly we've learnt fcuk all and we're going to end up with even more ghettos that take mass individual ownership to sort out.

As for Roderic O'Gorman and this 'own door accommodation' as an alternative to direct provision, don't get me started.

Browney7 · 03-05-2021 1:28pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I preface my remarks by saying I live in an area that was traditionally social housing and some still is, everyone is on edge when the council buys a place as you've no idea who they're going to put in.

In answer to your question I have no idea I'm afraid. I know I wouldn't want to be buying on a new estate knowing that the majority could be bought up by the council or a REIT which mark my words will end up being sold off wholesale to the likes of the council or this long term rental malarkey when the tide begins to turn.

Frankly we've learnt fcuk all and we're going to end up with even more ghettos that take mass individual ownership to sort out.

As for Roderic O'Gorman and this 'own door accommodation' as an alternative to direct provision, don't get me started.

What I find amusing is the council's won't build areas of public housing due to the social mix but yet are more than happy to rent en masse or allow AHBs to do the exact same thing!

Smart capital knows commercial property is going to have a lean few years and aren't going to look the Irish state gift-horse in the mouth for long.

_ZeeK_ · 03-05-2021 1:36pm

The Student wrote: »

Developer does not have to disclose who is buying. Alot of approved housing bodies are purchasing multiple properties in new developments.

Yes. So curious to know how people went about discovering this information.

Muahahaha · 03-05-2021 4:06pm

Heard on the radio that the estate in Maynooth had 80% of its new starter homes bought by a fund. Ive a friend who is a first time buyer in Maynooth and cant get anything so they'll be fumng at this news. Anyone know what estate it was?

Funds buying up apartment blocks en masse and renting them back to the State has been going on in Dublin for a few years now. Dun Laoighire council are signed into 20 year leases on 90 apartments in Dundrum at 2k a month, its crazy stuff. But this is the first time Ive heard of the funds now moving out of Dublin and buying up housing estates.

JustAThought · 03-05-2021 4:18pm

Been going on quietly for DECADES Nd not helped by do-gooders from the Big 4 sitting on boards of and acting as advisors to major so called ‘homeless’ charities. Assets in NAMA being ringfenced to hand over to these ‘charities’ for a song - so much for the taxpayers assets and sacrifices and taxes to bail out the banks/ developers.

For people considering buying in an unknown estate - bearing in mind it can take a year or more for the sales to be registered (another joke for yet another quango) Have a look at the Property Price Index website and google the estate. Remember it may have been sold en masse but not yet appear on the PPI website. But you’ll find a lot of block sales imdirectly there - multiple houses or appartments all sold on the same day for a block price ( eg units no 5-237) for a block registered price of 20 million or so ( for example).

Friend of mine was living ten years in a lovely settled estate and the field at the end of their house was sold - I walked around it once built 2 years ago to be nosey & was shocked to see that EVERY house had the same awful blinds and the same awful cheap furniture laid out the same way in every front room. Turns out it was sold en masse and was waiting to recieve its ‘clients’. A lovely settled estate turned in a rat run for a council hovel overnight.

I also see some so called ‘homeless’ charities promoting the properties they own - you can read the names & addresses of the blocks and estates from their websites.

Also google the apartment address and ‘for sale’ - I discovered quite by accident that a 60 ‘unit’ entire apartment block I ‘knew’ was for sale in its entirity - quite the revelation.

FromADistance · 03-05-2021 4:57pm

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/four-in-ten-homes-in-glenveagh-portfolio-have-prs-potential-38908186.html

This market behaviour has been well flagged and developers see this as a handy opportunity to sell houses in bulk as illustrated by the link above. I am aware of an estate in D15 where between a private equity fund & Fingal County Council, they own 70% of the houses. The private equity fund plan to rent the houses at c2k p.m, prime for a county council deal because let's be honest, who else could afford to rent them? No wonder the market is ****ed when you have County Councils agreeing to rent whole estates at the top of the market. None of this does anything for affordability and only keeps the greasy wheel turning. It's an outrageous waste of taxpayers money.

jrosen · 03-05-2021 5:11pm

The developer is under no legal obligation to disclose who is buying. Housing agencies are looking to buy a minimum number of houses but they will take whatever they can get.

I know of a development that from planning approval stage was always going to 100% social and the builder, housing agency and KCC kept it quiet. It allowed the developer to sell his other houses at top market value. Kildare county council when challenged on this said that a persons right to be housed trumps any other concerns. They flat out refused to engage with local reps and all parties lied to potential buyers and those who bought the first lot of houses.

Its a win win for the local authorities and also the builder. The builder gets to bulk sell and often a housing agency will take over and run a 25 year lease. Those housed will be on some sort of long term lease through the council.

My advice to buyers. Dont buy when the development launches. Sit tight and keep an eye. You can get an idea if on the site map there is a sudden buy up of a large number of properties. Generally you will see houses dotted around where people have paid their deposits. But unlikely to see rows of houses all sold together.

Fawk Nin · 04-05-2021 1:40pm

FromADistance wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/four-in-ten-homes-in-glenveagh-portfolio-have-prs-potential-38908186.html

This market behaviour has been well flagged and developers see this as a handy opportunity to sell houses in bulk as illustrated by the link above. I am aware of an estate in D15 where between a private equity fund & Fingal County Council, they own 70% of the houses. The private equity fund plan to rent the houses at c2k p.m, prime for a county council deal because let's be honest, who else could afford to rent them? No wonder the market is ****ed when you have County Councils agreeing to rent whole estates at the top of the market. None of this does anything for affordability and only keeps the greasy wheel turning. It's an outrageous waste of taxpayers money.

What's the estate if you don't mind me asking?

breadmonster · 04-05-2021 3:54pm

Fawk Nin wrote: »

What's the estate if you don't mind me asking?

Looks like bay meadows
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/investment-firms-buy-estate-of-112-new-houses-in-dublin-to-rent-out-1.4554949

Falling · 04-05-2021 4:04pm

It's Mullen Park in Maynooth.

ec18 · 04-05-2021 4:08pm

yup mullen park friend of mine bought before they were all purchased for rental

jrosen · 04-05-2021 4:12pm

ec18 wrote: »

yup mullen park friend of mine bought before they were all purchased for rental

Its absolutely terrible. Hopefully its maintained, at this stage thats all they can hope for.

Del2005 · 04-05-2021 4:18pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I preface my remarks by saying I live in an area that was traditionally social housing and some still is, everyone is on edge when the council buys a place as you've no idea who they're going to put in.

In answer to your question I have no idea I'm afraid. I know I wouldn't want to be buying on a new estate knowing that the majority could be bought up by the council or a REIT which mark my words will end up being sold off wholesale to the likes of the council or this long term rental malarkey when the tide begins to turn.

Frankly we've learnt fcuk all and we're going to end up with even more ghettos that take mass individual ownership to sort out.

As for Roderic O'Gorman and this 'own door accommodation' as an alternative to direct provision, don't get me started.

Problem is that the councils and associations are also buying up single houses, so once a property is for sale the odds are good that it'll be bought for some type of social housing.

Fred Cryton · 04-05-2021 4:38pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Problem is that the councils and associations are also buying up single houses, so once a property is for sale the odds are good that it'll be bought for some type of social housing.

Yep. Now this is a even bigger problem. We have the government pricing out first time buyers by buying up new stock for social.

At least the funds will rent them out to ordinary WORKING people.

C14N · 04-05-2021 4:49pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Yep. Now this is a even bigger problem. We have the government pricing out first time buyers by buying up new stock for social.

At least the funds will rent them out to ordinary WORKING people.

Social housing isn't just for the unemployed. It's for everyone below a certain cutoff salary.

The Student · 04-05-2021 4:51pm

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

Yes. So curious to know how people went about discovering this information.

Look at the PPR to see who owns the property. Once potential buyers know Approved Housing Bodies are purchasing it reduces the price the developer can charge for the other properties for sale.

timmyntc · 04-05-2021 4:55pm

C14N wrote: »

Social housing isn't just for the unemployed. It's for everyone below a certain cutoff salary.

True, but overwhelming amount of people in social housing are in rental arrears.

So while its not necessarily housing for the unemployed, it is for many - housing for free.

Jammyd · 04-05-2021 5:21pm

I've been saying this for years, we bought a gorgeous home up in D15 by the train station in Hansfield in what we thought would be our long term home, just after we got the key and after the developers had met their Part V obligations including additional apts which went to the Peter McVery trust they then went and sold 99 of the final phase to IRES REIT.

Sad to say but the estate has gone to the dogs and it breaks my heart any time we pass it now. We sold up late last year just as another couple of hundred apartments were about to be rented out. The prices on the rentals are insane for the location and essentially are a back door for social housing as the council are subventing the rents HAP to social tenants for them to be rented. This was even reported in the RTE news back in 2018 (apologies for the random link it looks like RTE only have the story on their FB page) anyway needless to say we got out just in time having witnessed the place get worse and worse over time. I would say the estate is probably 50 - 60 percent social housing now which is very unfair for those in the private section who paid well over 300k at the time. IRES REIT couldn't care less about who they let the properties too once they are getting their high rents, numerous times I contacted them over illegal dumping, the state of the public areas and an incident where I was verbally (almost physically but thankfully didn't reach that point) assaulted by some of their high calibre tenants who roamed around the estate off their heads on a regular basis and they couldn't care less. Sad to see the govt allow this instead of actually building social and affordable housing themselves, another smack in the face for the middle income earner. Just to add not all the tenants in the Rental section where as described but in general its low income, unemployed families who've been crammed into the area and have little regard to maintaining and improving the area in any meaningful way.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjxxJG-tbDwAhVBoVwKHYMgA_8QtwIwAHoECAYQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frtenews%2Fvideos%2F2228511307177859%2F&usg=AOvVaw1FgGTIzfveHxPDgjVCCsj7

Fred Cryton · 04-05-2021 5:43pm

Jammyd wrote: »

I've been saying this for years, we bought a gorgeous home up in D15 by the train station in Hansfield in what we thought would be our long term home, just after we got the key and after the developers had met their Part V obligations including additional apts which went to the Peter McVery trust they then went and sold 99 of the final phase to IRES REIT.

Sad to say but the estate has gone to the dogs and it breaks my heart any time we pass it now. We sold up late last year just as another couple of hundred apartments were about to be rented out. The prices on the rentals are insane for the location and essentially are a back door for social housing as the council are subventing the rents HAP to social tenants for them to be rented. This was even reported in the RTE news back in 2018 (apologies for the random link it looks like RTE only have the story on their FB page) anyway needless to say we got out just in time having witnessed the place get worse and worse over time. I would say the estate is probably 50 - 60 percent social housing now which is very unfair for those in the private section who paid well over 300k at the time. IRES REIT couldn't care less about who they let the properties too once they are getting their high rents, numerous times I contacted them over illegal dumping, the state of the public areas and an incident where I was verbally (almost physically but thankfully didn't reach that point) assaulted by some of their high calibre tenants who roamed around the estate off their heads on a regular basis and they couldn't care less. Sad to see the govt allow this instead of actually building social and affordable housing themselves, another smack in the face for the middle income earner. Just to add not all the tenants in the Rental section where as described but in general its low income, unemployed families who've been crammed into the area and have little regard to maintaining and improving the area in any meaningful way.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjxxJG-tbDwAhVBoVwKHYMgA_8QtwIwAHoECAYQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frtenews%2Fvideos%2F2228511307177859%2F&usg=AOvVaw1FgGTIzfveHxPDgjVCCsj7

The idea of "integration" of social with private is an absolute farce and a con job of epic proportions. The private buyers are treated as absolute mugs. No other country inflicts this on their hard working private buying citizens.

But it suits the virtue signalling Irish political elite, most of whom are living in older estates in South Dublin with little to no social, or in rural areas where its' not as much of an issue.

yer man! · 04-05-2021 5:47pm

Jammyd wrote: »

I've been saying this for years, we bought a gorgeous home up in D15 by the train station in Hansfield in what we thought would be our long term home, just after we got the key and after the developers had met their Part V obligations including additional apts which went to the Peter McVery trust they then went and sold 99 of the final phase to IRES REIT.

Sad to say but the estate has gone to the dogs and it breaks my heart any time we pass it now. We sold up late last year just as another couple of hundred apartments were about to be rented out. The prices on the rentals are insane for the location and essentially are a back door for social housing as the council are subventing the rents HAP to social tenants for them to be rented. This was even reported in the RTE news back in 2018 (apologies for the random link it looks like RTE only have the story on their FB page) anyway needless to say we got out just in time having witnessed the place get worse and worse over time. I would say the estate is probably 50 - 60 percent social housing now which is very unfair for those in the private section who paid well over 300k at the time. IRES REIT couldn't care less about who they let the properties too once they are getting their high rents, numerous times I contacted them over illegal dumping, the state of the public areas and an incident where I was verbally (almost physically but thankfully didn't reach that point) assaulted by some of their high calibre tenants who roamed around the estate off their heads on a regular basis and they couldn't care less. Sad to see the govt allow this instead of actually building social and affordable housing themselves, another smack in the face for the middle income earner. Just to add not all the tenants in the Rental section where as described but in general its low income, unemployed families who've been crammed into the area and have little regard to maintaining and improving the area in any meaningful way.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjxxJG-tbDwAhVBoVwKHYMgA_8QtwIwAHoECAYQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frtenews%2Fvideos%2F2228511307177859%2F&usg=AOvVaw1FgGTIzfveHxPDgjVCCsj7

I was actually interested in buying my first house in the Hansfield area in a new estate a few years ago, it was probably the same estate! As a prospective first time buyer, new builds are like my last glimmer of hope in the current market. There's horror stories with bidding so I was hoping to go down the new build route but now this is another layer of bollo*ks that I have to consider in my search. This will be a self engineered brain drain over the next number of years for the state.

Investment Firms Buying Estates

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