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Iarnród Éireann Strategy 2027 Update

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    #32
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    IE 222 wrote: »
    There is also mention of 20min peek frequency to Gorey.

    That's longer term though.

    The two hourly frequency is planned by 2027.


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    #33
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    prunudo wrote: »
    Doesn't appear to be any mention of the southeastern line or does this fall under Dart+. Would be nice to see them upgrade as far south as Wicklow if not even further. I know its crossing threads, but as was mentioned (possibly by yourself LXflyer) part of the solution to the n11/m11 upgrade could be to build a park and ride close to Rathnew with good links to the local and national road network.

    that was my suggestion - where the M11 crosses the railway, you could build a single platform P&R station with access from the nearest junction (J17) - I submitted it to the N11 consultation but I expect they'd consider it "outside of scope"


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    #34
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I think that is exactly what they would plan on using on the outer commuter services.

    It would make logical sense as they all fit within the battery range of where the OHLE plans to finish initially and they'd be just withdrawing them otherwise. It wouldn't be too expensive or difficult to put charging points at each of the outer stations.

    I wonder will they look at different performance specs for the battery fleet, faster speeds ect.

    Think Athlone was included in that as well.


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    #35
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Im open to correction but I'm pretty sure I read before that a section of that line was only single track. It might of been Athenry - Woodlawn rather than Ballinasloe.

    IE's published plan above is to double Portarlington - Athlone and Galway - Athenry. I presume that means Athenry- Athlone will remain single track.

    All of Galway to Athlone was double track at one point and Athlone-Mulingar was also double track. Before CIE was formed the GSWR lifted the extra track to save maintenance costs.


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    #36
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    IE 222 wrote: »
    There is also mention of 20min peek frequency to Gorey.

    Hard to see how that could happen without being a bit of a mega project. I absolutely think that there should be rail mega projects in this country. Afterall look at what we can do with roads, see the mega bypass of the New Ross metropolis, including one of Europe's most elaborate bridge structures. There's even the M11 project to encourage more long distance car commuting. :rolleyes:


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    #37
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'd like to see a lot more work on the NIR side such as:

    New Dub-Bel line alongside the A1 between Newry and Lisburn.
    An extension of commuter rail from Portadown to Armagh
    An extension of intercity from Derry to Letterkenny
    Electrification of the whole thing
    improved line speeds on the north coast line


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    #38
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Hard to see how that could happen without being a bit of a mega project.

    Yes, without sorting the choke point tunnel at Bray Head, hard to see any major improvement in frequency. Don't they already have a project to reconfigure Greystones station and line, which will achieve something like a grand total of one extra train an hour through the tunnel?

    Hard to see how they can sort it on the cheap, other than with turning the line into a shuttle service from Greystones onwards.

    Agree that there should be a mega project for rail in Ireland, with Bray Head sorted.


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    #39
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Yes, without sorting the choke point tunnel at Bray Head, hard to see any major improvement in frequency. Don't they already have a project to reconfigure Greystones station and line, which will achieve something like a grand total of one extra train an hour through the tunnel?

    One extra train an hour would get you down to a 20 minute frequency to Greystones.

    If they electrify out to Gorey, or more realistically a bimode train that can run on batteries beyond Greystones, then you just have the Greystones trains carry onto Gorey and thus a 20 minute frequency to their.

    Or alternatively have Diesel trains continue operate Gorey to Greystones and have folks transfer onto DART at Greystones.


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    #40
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Hard to see how that could happen without being a bit of a mega project. I absolutely think that there should be rail mega projects in this country. Afterall look at what we can do with roads, see the mega bypass of the New Ross metropolis, including one of Europe's most elaborate bridge structures. There's even the M11 project to encourage more long distance car commuting. :rolleyes:

    Wouldn't necessarily need a 'mega project' to achieve 20min frequency. Extending the double track to the first tunnel either side of Bray Head would massively increase capacity.


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    #41
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I wonder long term instead of bimode trains for intercity would Hydrogen powered trains be a better fit for us. They are starting to roll out in Germany but are still very early in development

    https://fortune.com/2021/04/23/hydrogen-train-transport-europe-green-rail/


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    #42
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I wonder long term instead of bimode trains for intercity would Hydrogen powered trains be a better fit for us. They are starting to roll out in Germany but are still very early in development

    https://fortune.com/2021/04/23/hydrogen-train-transport-europe-green-rail/

    Hydrogen might be suitable for longer distance like intercity. But for the relatively short distance of Gorey to Greystones of 62km, that would be ideal for batteries.

    Generally, if batteries have sufficient range, they are preferable hydrogen. Hydrogen fuel is much more costly then electricity (for a given distance), plus it's environmental benefits are much more limited and questionable.

    Basically you only want to consider using Hydrogen, when batteries won't work.

    EDIT:
    LOL, I hadn't actually read the above article before posting above, but after posting, I went and read it and the article says almost exactly the same:
    “For longer distances and areas where we need more power, hydrogen has an advantage,” he said. “It seems that battery trains could have an advantage for short distances, but we need to sort this out.”

    The costs to an owner of a regional passenger train are cheapest when it is powered by electric batteries, followed by diesel, hydrogen and then electric lines, according to clean energy research group BloombergNEF. The choice between batteries or fuel cells to replace diesel depends on factors like the length of the tracks, frequency of service and number of stops.


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    #43
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Hydrogen might be a long term solution for Dublin to Westport services but I'd say the rest of the network will end up being electric or a mix of electric and battery


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    #44
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    I noticed a turn back facility is proposed for somewhere between Blackrock and Dun Laoghaire. Is this for the Maynooth/Drogheda Commuters currently operating to Bray?

    Also, are the new fleet additions to the DART still going to be fitted with toilets?


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    #45
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    I noticed a turn back facility is proposed for somewhere between Blackrock and Dun Laoghaire. Is this for the Maynooth/Drogheda Commuters currently operating to Bray?

    Also, are the new fleet additions to the DART still going to be fitted with toilets?

    It was for Dun Laoghaire. It was more in need to reduce the number of trains to be turned back in Bray rather than a terminating point for a particular route. Also demand beyond Dun Laoghaire wouldn't require 18 train per hour.

    Reading between the lines there will be toilets onboard. New trains will cover longer distance routes. The new depot has toilet discharge points in the service areas ect. According to the CEO their only a matter of weeks away from placing an order of 100 bi-mode trains expected to arrive in 2024.


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    #46
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Does anyone know the full extents of the works that have been carried out and are currently being carried out on the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy line?

    I notice the line wasnt included in the IE strategy document update. Was it just because of covid and the line being closed they decided to do some work on the line?


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    #47
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Think there is a typo in the thread title... surely it's meant to be 2057 ?


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    #48
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117069136#Comment_117069136

    The DART+ fleet wont be fitted with toilets according to the following link:

    https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/faqs/fleet?page=3

    Not the end of the world. However, those travelling the entirety of the longer jouneys are screwed if they have a particularly weak or sensitive bladder. So, they'll still have to alight at Pearse and Connelly for use of the facilities and resume their journey.



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    #49
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That FAQ also states Fairview is to close (as main maintenance depot at least - 8500s to be moved to Kilcock along with all new ones).

    That gives a lot more wiggle room for design for extra tracks, redesign of Clontarf Road etc.


    Although I can see it just being sold off for apartments!



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    #50
    DoctorPan
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭DoctorPan


    Fairview is closing as the main maintenance depot but there's to be no scaling back of services, all it removes really is the empty transfers between Fairview and Drogheda.



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    #51
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Fairview is an EMU depot and Drogheda a DMU depot, why would there be transfers between them?

    If all 8100s are gone and 8500s moved to Maynooth, what other work is left to be done in Fairview?



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    #52
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,703 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I presume Fairview depot relates to the maintenance building north of the running tracks and that if it closed, the area south of the tracks would still be used for stabling trains overnight?



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    #53
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696103#Comment_117696103

    I would imagine that stabling sidings would be retained on both sides of the running lines.



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    #54
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697883#Comment_117697883

    I would hope they use it as an opportunity to reconfigure Clontarf Road station to something more suitable to its surroundings



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    #55
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,703 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117703061#Comment_117703061

    Presumably driver change will still happen there, in which case one of the goals of a reconfiguration should be to allow that happen at the station. Always seems so inefficient to have the train stop for one person to get off and one get on, then roll a couple hundred metres forward and have many people get off/on.



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    #56
    DoctorPan
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭DoctorPan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117674625#Comment_117674625

    Drogheda currently does some heavy maintance on the DART fleet, including when units require a visit to the wheel lathe as Fairview doesn't have the facilities to carry it out. DART units get towed beind 29000s between the depots on weekly transfers.


    Fairview is intended to be kept on for light servicing and stabling of sets.



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