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31-08-2019, 10:29   #1
Jamie2k9
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FTP Journey's up 16% Last Year

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The sustainability of current funding levels for the free travel scheme has been questioned after a 16 per cent increase in journeys taken by pass holders on public and private transport services was recorded last year.

Figures published by the National Transport Authority show 30.4 million trips were made under the scheme in 2018 – 4.2 million more journeys than the previous year.

There are currently about 948,000 individuals who have been issued with free travel passes – up from 813,000 five years ago.

According to the NTA, a total of 166,150 new passes were issued last year – up 3 per cent on 2017 figures.
Full Article:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...e-it-1.4002887

Better recording is probally a major part.

How ironic of FF to made such a statement, the burden has been on fare payers since introduced.
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31-08-2019, 10:38   #2
L1011
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Higher % using smartcard PSCs and hence recorded properly is going to have a major impact on this
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01-09-2019, 13:34   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
Full Article:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...e-it-1.4002887

Better recording is probally a major part.

How ironic of FF to made such a statement, the burden has been on fare payers since introduced.
It's worth noting that the 948,000 figure does not represent the entirety of the FTP scheme's exposure.

When Spousal and Companion elements are included,the numbers covered are in excess of 1.2 Million (Oddly enough the exact figure is not available,apparently due to "difficulties" accessing the revelant data )
There remains also,a significant rump of FTP holders who are refusing to transfer to the Electronic Card,and who have now been emboldened by the ongoing "issues" relating to the Data Commissioners concerns about the greater DSP card scheme.
Given that the original Cardboard FTP did not have any expiry date,this has allowed a rather loose situation to prevail in relation to exactly how many FT passes are in circulation,something first alluded to be the Northern Irish authorities during the negotations to extend Free Travel to the 32 Counties,where such concessions have always been somewhat more tightly monitored.

The use of the term "concession" rather than "entitlement" points to the difference in thinking....

The only real study of the FT Scheme was conducted by Prof Orlaigh Quinn of TCD's Policy Institute in 2000 which remains a very interesting read,even today.

https://www.tcd.ie/policy-institute/...ee_Schemes.pdf

My personal favorite element of the Free Travel Scheme is this.....

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Can-I...-services.aspx

Lastly,it is of some note that the Free Travel Scheme is not,and has never been,a Statutory Scheme,and exists totally at the whim of the Minister of the Day,who could,at the stroke of a pen and without reference to the Oireachtas,decide to abolish it tomorrow !
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02-09-2019, 14:19   #4
ongarboy
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Out of interest, per the comment on the cohort refusing to transfer to Electronic Card, if you are getting free travel, why would you object to being issued an electronic card that fits snugly in a wallet and is robust vs a tattery over sized paper version on the verge of falling apart???
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02-09-2019, 14:22   #5
Jamie2k9
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Originally Posted by ongarboy View Post
Out of interest, per the comment on the cohort refusing to transfer to Electronic Card, if you are getting free travel, why would you object to being issued an electronic card that fits snugly in a wallet and is robust vs a tattery over sized paper version on the verge of falling apart???
Refusing PSC for free travel or social welfare means you forgo the entitlement.

The issue with PSC was related to other departments.

Hopefully a final date for paper cards is set soon.
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02-09-2019, 15:25   #6
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my folks (early 70s) recently went to the aran islands. €15 each, return - and that was only because they took the plane from galway. the entire journey would have been free had they taken the ferry.
would be very interesting to see what proportion of domestic tourism makes use of free travel in this way.
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02-09-2019, 22:30   #7
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Doesn't the Free Travel Pass allow the Govt to effectively subside CIE far more that the EU would allow them to? I see nothing wrong with it, most of these journeys would not be taken were it not for the FTP and the resultant tax revenue from this spending more than covers the trip in my view. Both my parents recently became pensioners and they have gone up to Dublin and Galway using the train and bus, they have stayed in hotels, eat out etc, none of these journeys would likely have happened as my father wouldn't drive and they would not pay the excessive train fares, it is bad enough you get ripped off in every hotel and restaurant and their spend recycles in taxation. These type of people would just go abroad instead most likely were it not for the FTP.
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02-09-2019, 23:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theguzman View Post
Doesn't the Free Travel Pass allow the Govt to effectively subside CIE far more that the EU would allow them to? I see nothing wrong with it, most of these journeys would not be taken were it not for the FTP and the resultant tax revenue from this spending more than covers the trip in my view. Both my parents recently became pensioners and they have gone up to Dublin and Galway using the train and bus, they have stayed in hotels, eat out etc, none of these journeys would likely have happened as my father wouldn't drive and they would not pay the excessive train fares, it is bad enough you get ripped off in every hotel and restaurant and their spend recycles in taxation. These type of people would just go abroad instead most likely were it not for the FTP.
the old free travel pass was a subsidy in part because it allowed CIE to fill empty seats and justify off peak frequencies. Seamus Brennan extending FTP to all services took up seats already full and reduced the attractiveness of services to those paying full fare. Because of how the FTP programme worked, it did not track usage numbers so Social Welfare could invent a lowball subsidy which CIE had to accept. The winds are changing with private operators in the market as well as the electronic card tracking trips with more granularity.

Taxsaver redressed the balance (but only in part since only a subset of non OAP trips get that subsidy) but capital refresh has not kept pace so 29000s are being flogged around the network without proper refurbishment being done in due time since the alternative is not being able to meet the needed number of services.
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03-09-2019, 18:35   #9
ED E
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There are two really important changes that need to be made to pub trans that OAPs will hate and thus will never happen thus deterring paying pax.

1) DB/GA and possibly others in Cork/Galway need to decommission some stops. Three in 150 meters is crazy. The 27B going through a hospital campus (ok) then looping around the narrowest estate is crazy.

2) FTP needs to be invalid at peak


Neither will ever happen.
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03-09-2019, 18:46   #10
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I'd be more interested if they actually started proper tracking of the costs, distances, usage periods and user profile.

Theres no point in saying they cant avail of it in peak, if you dont know who is using it, how much and when. Who cares how many is issued if we dont know how much it costs and what that means for the actual journeys they've been used for?
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05-09-2019, 06:05   #11
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What we need is are Ayn Rand fans, fresh out of UCD, to be National Ambassadors going door to door to every pensioner in the country to persuade them nort to use their FTPs.

:popcorn
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05-09-2019, 06:15   #12
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The misuse of the FTP is a disgrace

I feel stupid paying 2000€ a year whilst some jokers just use their parents card and brazenly as-well

The amount of able bodied under 60s using them is sickening
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05-09-2019, 18:05   #13
end of the road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ED E View Post
There are two really important changes that need to be made to pub trans that OAPs will hate and thus will never happen thus deterring paying pax.

1) DB/GA and possibly others in Cork/Galway need to decommission some stops. Three in 150 meters is crazy. The 27B going through a hospital campus (ok) then looping around the narrowest estate is crazy.

2) FTP needs to be invalid at peak


Neither will ever happen.
and rightly so, at least for the second one, which delivers very very little to nothing in return. for ftp to be unavailable at peak, a serious amount would have to be delivered in return, which it won't.
as for the first one, the whole point of such bus services is to be user-friendly and accessable to everybody. 3 stops in 150m is crazy to you and me, because a walk to another is a complete non-issue. however that doesn't mean it is crazy to others, or even crazy at all.

Last edited by end of the road; 05-09-2019 at 18:13.
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06-09-2019, 11:59   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleety_Rain View Post
The misuse of the FTP is a disgrace

I feel stupid paying 2000€ a year whilst some jokers just use their parents card and brazenly as-well

The amount of able bodied under 60s using them is sickening
Yeah the article tires its best to gloss over that

"National Transport Authority reveals 4.2 million more trips taken by over-66s in 2018....Some people under 66 also qualify."

Almost 1 million people have a FTP, 300k approx of this is made up of non over 60s.

Allowing 1 in 5 people to travel for free all the time is unsustainable
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07-09-2019, 04:41   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ED E View Post
There are two really important changes that need to be made to pub trans that OAPs will hate and thus will never happen thus deterring paying pax.

1) DB/GA and possibly others in Cork/Galway need to decommission some stops. Three in 150 meters is crazy. The 27B going through a hospital campus (ok) then looping around the narrowest estate is crazy.

2) FTP needs to be invalid at peak


Neither will ever happen.
1, a modern bus is very fuel efficient once it is moving, but because it has a small engine it has to pour diesel into the engine to get it moving. removing stops will hugely increase fuel efficiency .
2, minimum fare on DB is €1.50 so one journey per week is €78 per year.
The entire budget for free travel is 70 million per year.
So do the math, 1 million passes + their companions.
Now include all DB/BE/LUAS/Aircoach and many other private operators.
Is it any wonder prices are so high for fare paying passengers and that fare will rise in December.
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