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Changes to benefit the environment...

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  • 12-02-2019 2:07pm
    #1
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭


    On the back of the "Fields of lush green grass" thread... and general environmental subject overall...

    Plus, the BPM thread, and the feel people may be producing less... (plus the new found appreciation for donkeys ;) )

    Is anyone here planning to make any environmental changes? Am not talking big changes of abondoning entire fields... Just small changes, if production is going to be less, are there particular items ye are going to do?

    I know there are a few here, who go to great lengths. I think its Capercille who is farming in a Corncrake area? I remember a while ago, they put up a pic of a stand of nettles they had growing, for insect feed. At the time, it made itch, and made me think I would be going for the backpack sprayer... (sorry Capercille) :)

    But - maybe I am coming around to this type of farming...

    Maybe its that I need a little change in how I look at things... a bit of re-education... The nettles above might be a good example - to me, they were a weed. But to Capercile, they were a food source...

    So, for those of you, that are very environmentally focused... Any advice, or small changes people could do to help the world a little bit?


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    #2
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    I'll start with bagstuff...

    I put out a bit, not much though. But I like to give the ground something... But maybe there is something else I could be putting out, a tonic or 'improver' for the ground... :confused:

    Interested in hearing about the non-chemical alternatives (if they exist)


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    #3
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I reckon it's wild birds that are under the most pressure of extinction. By leaving hedges grow a bit taller and wider at the base it gives them food and habitat.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #4
    mayota
    Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭mayota


    Dafm should stop penalizing for scrub and encroaching hedges.


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    #5
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Some of our negative sins first, BPS infringements forced us to cut back scrub to clear ground, we’ve been doing minimal drainage and spraying to check rush coverage too, it’s not environmentally right but we can’t afford penalty either.

    I’ve had my try at coppice for renewable fuel, it’s somewhat successful in that it produces a reasonable volume of timber, the aim isn’t to replace oil but reduce it. Sadly days with a chainsaw are tough going since injury, I may plant more but not sure. If I planted the remaining half acre and used it fully I’d say our oil use would be down to maybe 250l a year,

    We spread much less bagged manure than 10 years ago, primarily through de stocking but also better soil health, not meaning to blame previous generations but the understanding wasn’t there.

    Some rainwater harvesting to drinkers, mostly it works fine.

    Smaller things, we haven’t use any rofldent bait in last three years, cats have been very successful. Very little weed killer used round the yard.

    Solar water heating on the house provides hot water 8-9 months of the year.


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    #6
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    _Brian wrote: »
    Some of our negative sins first, BPS infringements forced us to cut back scrub to clear ground, we’ve been doing minimal drainage and spraying to check rush coverage too, it’s not environmentally right but we can’t afford penalty either.

    I’ve had my try at coppice for renewable fuel, it’s somewhat successful in that it produces a reasonable volume of timber, the aim isn’t to replace oil but reduce it. Sadly days with a chainsaw are tough going since injury, I may plant more but not sure. If I planted the remaining half acre and used it fully I’d say our oil use would be down to maybe 250l a year,

    We spread much less bagged manure than 10 years ago, primarily through de stocking but also better soil health, not meaning to blame previous generations but the understanding wasn’t there.

    Some rainwater harvesting to drinkers, mostly it works fine.

    Smaller things, we haven’t use any rofldent bait in last three years, cats have been very successful. Very little weed killer used round the yard.

    Solar water heating on the house provides hot water 8-9 months of the year.

    Get in a saw head hedgecutter for a couple of hours for your own safety


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    #7
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,047 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    I'll start with bagstuff...

    I put out a bit, not much though. But I like to give the ground something... But maybe there is something else I could be putting out, a tonic or 'improver' for the ground... :confused:

    Interested in hearing about the non-chemical alternatives (if they exist)

    If you want to try something like that.

    Try out some seaweed spray and mix a little molasses into it.
    About 15 litres of molasses to 6 acres for starters and see how it goes.

    There's a happy medium with applying molasses. Too much and it'll feed the microbes but it'll knock back the plant for a while.
    (I posted a more scientific tweet on the above a few days ago in chitchat).

    In the book "The hidden half of Nature" Anne Bikle brought subsoil into a rich carbon rich soil using coffee grounds, seaweed and molasses spray.

    Multi species grazing swards should be seriously considered too. The smart grass project on the Lyons farm in UCD is getting good results.

    Edit: Clips from the Biological conference in Tullamore last year are appearing on YouTube now.

    https://youtu.be/HmKnRJVEgk0


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    #8
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I'm toying with the notion of planting a line of alder trees. Not in a grove, but in a line along by internal electric fences. They are very beneficial for the soil in that they can fix nitrogen. Added benefit of leaf litter. They will firm up the ground underfoot and provide habitat and act as a windbreak.

    Really think trees are underutilized. Grass only takes advantage of topsoil. Trees can bring up nutrients from much deeper.


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    #9
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Muckit wrote: »
    I'm toying with the notion of planting a line of alder trees. Not in a grove, but in a line along by internal electric fences. They are very beneficial for the soil in that they can fix nitrogen. Added benefit of leaf litter. They will firm up the ground underfoot and provide habitat and act as a windbreak.

    Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

    The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #10
    G-Man
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭G-Man


    Interesting things coming to head.. We love how the Irish Consumer supports meat... Yet it appears they are also reducing meat consumption, and this is the question for irish farmers, what are you going to supply them with if they eat less of your meat and dairy.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/vegetable-and-plant-based-milk-sales-rise-kantar-worldpanel-4488355-Feb2019/#comments

    Supermarkets have responded ..I notice myself, meat prices in supermarket have pulled down a lot lately.. Fillet @20/kg in Supervalu.. Lamb loin chops @11/kg in LIDL.


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    #11
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    To the original poster.

    Do you have a small field that you could set aside for a traditional hay meadow. Not much to it and it will have an enormous benefit.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #12
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    To the original poster.

    Do you have a small field that you could set aside for a traditional hay meadow. Not much to it and it will have an enormous benefit.

    Hello 80s,

    No, I am in GLAS, have fields in Low input pasture.

    I don’t like cutting grass / hay actually.

    I feel it kills the ground, unless you replace the nutrients. I don’t have slurry or dung, so it would be bag manure...
    So - for that reason, I prefer to feed any grass, and let the grass in the field so speak...


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    #13
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

    The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

    Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation? :)


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    #14
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Hello 80s,

    No, I am in GLAS, have fields in Low input pasture.

    I don’t like cutting grass / hay actually.

    I feel it kills the ground, unless you replace the nutrients. I don’t have slurry or dung, so it would be bag manure...
    So - for that reason, I prefer to feed any grass, and let the grass in the field so speak...

    So you are already doing something for the environment.
    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation? :)

    Nope. Alder is part of the birch family and willow is part of the willow family.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #15
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Hate alder with a passion. No better tree to destroy a hedge. Everything dies under it's large canopy and you end up with a huge hole in the hedge.

    (Edit - should have said Elder not Alder)

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #16
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

    The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

    The city of Venice is built on alder piles , I planted a lot of alder in the afforestation scheme and they have great growth rates without being an eyesore .


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    #17
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭endainoz


    I'm looking to plant a good few trees too, Alder or Willow I'd say. After joining the organic scheme I won't be spraying or using any chemical fert anymore.

    I'd like to plant some hedgerows if possible too and I'm going to plant some summer wildflowers in a part of the lawn in front of the house.

    Seen as I can't use any rat poison anymore, would love to encourage a barn owl to hang around the place. I think that might be a bit far fetched all the same!


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    #18
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    I ordered seedbombs last week and am expecting delivery tomorrow.

    Plan to bring some when I go for walks with with the lads and we fire a few out as we go and see will any take root.

    Had Esb poles put in the land lately so I’ve a few boxes of wild flower seeds and plans to spread them where they damaged and repaired before grass goes.


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    #19
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    kollegeknight wrote: »
    I ordered seedbombs last week and am expecting delivery tomorrow.

    Plan to bring some when I go for walks with with the lads and we fire a few out as we go and see will any take root.

    Had Esb poles put in the land lately so I’ve a few boxes of wild flower seeds and plans to spread them where they damaged and repaired before grass goes.

    Seedbombs? Any links?


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    #20
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    So you are already doing something for the environment.

    Nope. Alder is part of the birch family and willow is part of the willow family.

    Ah, I wouldn’t be against the environment now...

    I am doing GLAS as part of a scheme. I’d prob have the low input pasture anyways...

    But it’s more what else I could be doing...


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    #21
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Re wildflowers. The grass will overtake the wildflowers very quickly unless you also sow some yellow rattle. ( Hay rattle ). They are semi parasitic and will stunt the growth of rye grass and open up the sword . I planted some this year so will see how it goes.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #22
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    endainoz wrote: »
    I'm looking to plant a good few trees too, Alder or Willow I'd say. After joining the organic scheme I won't be spraying or using any chemical fert anymore.

    I'd like to plant some hedgerows if possible too and I'm going to plant some summer wildflowers in a part of the lawn in front of the house.

    Seen as I can't use any rat poison anymore, would love to encourage a barn owl to hang around the place. I think that might be a bit far fetched all the same!

    In deciding between Alder and Willow you should take into account their final height. Alder will grow to 30 metres whilst Willow ( goat and grey Willow are Irish varieties) will grow to 10 metres.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #23
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Seedbombs? Any links?


    https://www.seedbomb.ie

    I ordered the 1000 bombs for €120.

    They haven’t arrived yet so I can’t comment on how effective they are.


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    #24
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation? :)

    No willow is different tree. Sally in another name for it. It likes wet areas too and will take and thrive on wet ground.

    The have to pay their way too though. I'm thinking of an alternative fuel source outside of fossil fuels. The day of the turf is soon at an end and oil as a domestic fuel won't be fair behind it or there will be a domestic carbon tax introduced.

    Alder is a tidy lovely looking tree too IMO and grows readily around here (along with birch, willow and ash). It has lovely year round interest.

    What I'd be planning would complement the cattle side of things with little work for a lot of positives.


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    #25
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    I try to plant a few trees in hedges / ditches every year... just plants I find about the place... Ash mainly, some horse chestnut, some hazel...
    I have willow growing around the yard and I find it a pure curse... springs up everywhere...

    Is willow any good to burn do you know Muckit? I have some to cut up - presume it would burn away fine? As long as it was left season a good long while?


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    #26
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    We need results based agri/environmental schemes. Too much money has been wasted over the last 20 years hanging ornaments from trees and the like. The new HH scheme is much better in that regard and seems to have gone down will with participating farmers according to what I've read.


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    #27
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    I try to plant a few trees in hedges / ditches every year... just plants I find about the place... Ash mainly, some horse chestnut, some hazel...
    I have willow growing around the yard and I find it a pure curse... springs up everywhere...

    Is willow any good to burn do you know Muckit? I have some to cut up - presume it would burn away fine? As long as it was left season a good long while?

    Cut to lengths, dry it for six months and it's very good to burn. I coppice willow here on a three year cycle- keeps me in firewood.


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    #28
    Lano Lynn
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭Lano Lynn


    don't just plant alders or willow or birch plant a mix of all of them and hazel and holly and aspen and ash etc diversity is the key,and where possible scource them locally eg growing in local woods bogs abandoned building sites etc.

    the 'environmental schemes' are pathetic in terms of their operation and stupid rules.(ask a birdwatch Ireland person about reps birdboxes for a reaction)

    the obcession with whitethorn hedges is a prime example very picturesque in flower or berry but not very good at supporting biodiversity
    the same length of hedge planted with a range of plants ,blackthorn,whitethorn hazel willow elm sorbus alder gorse even fushia(great for wildlife) briar blackberry elder blackcurrent gooseberry crabapple wild pear provides food and habitat for broader range of creatures for the whole year

    I took the hit on penalties on eligible areas for years to retain and enhance the areas of biodiversity on my farm . I created ponds and scrubland which has been very therapeutic and rewarding but I would be 'into wildlife' anyway.

    I almost felt guilty being paid to grow bird cover in AEOS. which I grew on a plot previously used for wheat or forage rape.the forage rape ironicly was the best bird cover ,

    the amount of habitat destruction the past decade has been horrendous driven by GAEC rules. But one of the worst things I have seen has been REPS planers advising clients to plant bird cover on 'bad land' so often the most biodiverse plot on a farm full of orchids etc is ploughed down after a dose of roundup to grow crow food. the insistence to sow cereals for bird cover is stupid. It will take generations to rehabilitate these plots.

    any corner of a field can grow nettles without it taking from the farm for caterpillars to feed on but the butterflies need flowers to feed on before they lay eggs ,nectar rich from the composite family (dandelions thistles burdock knapweed etc)

    a very very simple way to help birds if you are feeding cattle nuts at grass get a bag of whole barley put a couple of handfuls into each bag of nuts the whole grain passes through the beast and the birds will pick through the dung to get it.


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    #29
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Lano Lynn wrote: »
    any corner of a field can grow nettles without it taking from the farm for caterpillars to feed on but the butterflies need flowers to feed on before they lay eggs ,nectar rich from the composite family (dandelions thistles burdock knapweed etc)

    I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

    bit of research came across this
    Where growing nettles to encourage beneficial wildlife, pinch out the flowers as soon as they appear to prevent seeding. The unflowered top growth of nettles can be added to the compost heap but roots should be burned or binned.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #30
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

    Capercaille would be the man to answer that - AFAIK nettles need high N in soil to spread


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    #31
    Lano Lynn
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭Lano Lynn


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

    nettle patches tend to spread by root rather than by seed . spray around the edge of the patch with a broadspectum weedkiller not glyphosphate to stop spread. butterflies like big dense patches in sunny sheltered locations .early in the season (may) and again late august September)


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