False rape accusation...who would you believe?

py2006 · 30-03-2019 1:06pm

She should also have gotten the 7 years her victim got.

...Ghost... · 01-04-2019 11:51am

I wonder if her victims and especially the one who was jailed will receive some sort of compensation for the horrors they endured. I don't for a second believe that a falsely accused person can be properly compensated, because their lives and reputations are forever tarnished.

Even after that horrendous monster was put behind bars for her crime, there are those who will still believe her.

iptba · 01-04-2019 2:51pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

I wonder if her victims and especially the one who was jailed will receive some sort of compensation for the horrors they endured. I don't for a second believe that a falsely accused person can be properly compensated, because their lives and reputations are forever tarnished.

Even after that horrendous monster was put behind bars for her crime, there are those who will still believe her.

I remember a woman from Tallaght, I think her name was Annette Mangan, was temporarily jailed for making false accusations against three Irish men (they may have all been in the military). Anyway she had admitted it but people (well women) were still ringing in to the FM104 phone show saying there is no smoke without fire and it was at least partly their fault.

Aside: I remember the government lobbied successfully to get her out of jail, even though she had only been in a short time (days or weeks). I think it was in Cyprus.

...Ghost... · 01-04-2019 7:51pm

iptba wrote: »

I remember a woman from Tallaght, I think her name was Annette Mangan, was temporarily jailed for making false accusations against three Irish men (they may have all been in the military). Anyway she had admitted it but people (well women) were still ringing in to the FM104 phone show saying there is no smoke without fire and it was at least partly their fault.

The "go to" line for those who have no understanding of truth, or facts.

Aside: I remember the government lobbied successfully to get her out of jail, even though she had only been in a short time (days or weeks). I think it was in Cyprus.

Wanted revenge because she alleged one man took a nude picture of her when sleeping. Result= She claims 3 men raped her. Disgusting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irish-woman-jailed-in-cyprus-for-false-rape-complaint-1.95303

Marcos · 29-04-2019 5:37pm

Britsh police are now asking rape victims to hand over their mobile phones for inspection or risk not having prosecutions against their (alleged) attackers go ahead. This seems to be a reaction to the false accusations against many men, notably Liam Allan who was falsely accused and named as a rapist suspect until his trial two years later which immediately collapsed as previously withheld evidence came to light.

It's hard to imagine this kind of thing happening when Alison Saunders was Director of Public Prosecutions given her approach to increase convictions for rape no matter what the cost.

...Ghost... · 01-05-2019 4:59pm

Marcos wrote: »

Britsh police are now asking rape victims to hand over their mobile phones for inspection or risk not having prosecutions against their (alleged) attackers go ahead. This seems to be a reaction to the false accusations against many men, notably Liam Allan who was falsely accused and named as a rapist suspect until his trial two years later which immediately collapsed as previously withheld evidence came to light.

It's hard to imagine this kind of thing happening when Alison Saunders was Director of Public Prosecutions given her approach to increase convictions for rape no matter what the cost.

I would have thought it was standard protocol to inspect the phone/computer of someone making such an accusation. It could prove, or disprove their allegation in many cases. Phones belonging to accused persons are confiscated, so the same should happen to the alleged victim, unless of course the accused is presumed guilty. Let the evidence speak for itself, as crocodile tears are dangerous currency.

iptba · 11-05-2019 2:54am

When a Bankstown father went to help a young woman in need, he never envisaged his act of kindness would turn his life into a nightmare.

But that's what happened to 36-year-old Kenan Basic.

He had been accused of indecently assaulting and stalking a 19-year-old woman he had helped after her car broke down at a BP service station in Sydney's west in late 2018.

7NEWS has also been told Basic, who spent two weeks in jail, will pursue costs and compensation and will be back in court in July.
Basic also admitted he probably won't stop to help another woman again, and that the matter had "destroyed" his marriage.

https://7news.com.au/news/court-justice/good-samaritan-vindicated-after-indecent-assault-charges-thrown-out-in-court-c-96406

joeguevara · 11-05-2019 3:04am

...Ghost... wrote: »

I would have thought it was standard protocol to inspect the phone/computer of someone making such an accusation. It could prove, or disprove their allegation in many cases. Phones belonging to accused persons are confiscated, so the same should happen to the alleged victim, unless of course the accused is presumed guilty. Let the evidence speak for itself, as crocodile tears are dangerous currency.

How could it prove or disprove. Couple of examples.

Girl with guy. Has consensual sex. She regrets it. Texts next day ‘how could you force yourself on me’

Girl with guy. He rapes her. Texts her that was special.

Texts same as tears can be fake. Will not prove or disprove in ‘many cases’ as you say.

I completely understand what you are saying and agree to a good extent but it’s not black and white like your post suggests. I also think if texts become probitive evidence (and known to be) in court then they could be used by people to portray a falsehood.

joeguevara · 11-05-2019 3:04am

...Ghost... wrote: »

I would have thought it was standard protocol to inspect the phone/computer of someone making such an accusation. It could prove, or disprove their allegation in many cases. Phones belonging to accused persons are confiscated, so the same should happen to the alleged victim, unless of course the accused is presumed guilty. Let the evidence speak for itself, as crocodile tears are dangerous currency.

How could it prove or disprove. Couple of examples.

Girl with guy. Has consensual sex. She regrets it. Texts next day ‘how could you force yourself on me’

Girl with guy. He rapes her. Texts her that was special.

Texts same as tears can be fake. Will not prove or disprove in ‘many cases’ as you say.

I completely understand what you are saying and agree to a good extent but it’s not black and white like your post suggests. I also think if texts become probitive evidence (and known to be) in court then they could be used by people to portray a falsehood.

...Ghost... · 14-05-2019 1:04pm

joeguevara wrote: »

How could it prove or disprove. Couple of examples.

Girl with guy. Has consensual sex. She regrets it. Texts next day ‘how could you force yourself on me’

Girl with guy. He rapes her. Texts her that was special.

SNIP

1) Girl with guy has consensual sex. Girls texts guy for more consensual sex. Guy not interested. Girl sends more texts for sex and sexy images over a number of days. Girl gets angry that guy is not interested and cries rape.

2) Girl with guy has consensual sex. They text eachother for a couple of days after with texts that show they had a good time and will meet again. Girls sister/friend/parent finds out about sex and have something against the guy. Convince girl she was used and that it was actually rape.

3) Girl with guy in the bar later have consensual sex. Had been texting days before as they met on tinder. Text conversations show they both planned to have sex. Another Guy the Girl is interested in has heard she slept with a guy on first date. Girl cries rape to avoid looking like a slut.

I think you can agree that the 3 (off the top of my head) examples above are not outside the norm when it comes to consensual sex, possessiveness, begrudgery and shame. The complainants phone could go a long way to proving consent and motive, especially if the guy had the texts/history on his phone/device and the girl had specifically deleted the content relating to the consent. In such cases, it should be used to charge the complainant where it is proven the allegations are malicious.

joeguevara · 20-05-2019 1:22pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

1) Girl with guy has consensual sex. Girls texts guy for more consensual sex. Guy not interested. Girl sends more texts for sex and sexy images over a number of days. Girl gets angry that guy is not interested and cries rape.

2) Girl with guy has consensual sex. They text eachother for a couple of days after with texts that show they had a good time and will meet again. Girls sister/friend/parent finds out about sex and have something against the guy. Convince girl she was used and that it was actually rape.

3) Girl with guy in the bar later have consensual sex. Had been texting days before as they met on tinder. Text conversations show they both planned to have sex. Another Guy the Girl is interested in has heard she slept with a guy on first date. Girl cries rape to avoid looking like a slut.

I think you can agree that the 3 (off the top of my head) examples above are not outside the norm when it comes to consensual sex, possessiveness, begrudgery and shame. The complainants phone could go a long way to proving consent and motive, especially if the guy had the texts/history on his phone/device and the girl had specifically deleted the content relating to the consent. In such cases, it should be used to charge the complainant where it is proven the allegations are malicious.

I get your argument but it is too easy to manipulate and the danger of false texts being offered as probitive evidence. Mobile phone evidence in the scenario outlined has too many potential flaws in my opinion.

...Ghost... · 25-05-2019 11:57am

joeguevara wrote: »

I get your argument but it is too easy to manipulate and the danger of false texts being offered as probitive evidence. Mobile phone evidence in the scenario outlined has too many potential flaws in my opinion.

It's already used as evidence and in most cases where it is used, it vindicates a falsely accused man and helps some way to limit the damage caused by a malicious accusation. There is a big difference between a text from a guy to a girl saying he had a wonderful time and full blown conversations between the two.

Kimsang · 01-06-2019 4:19am

joeguevara wrote: »

I get your argument but it is too easy to manipulate and the danger of false texts being offered as prohibitive evidence. Mobile phone evidence in the scenario outlined has too many potential flaws in my opinion.

It's just that common sense must be applied and taken with a pinch of salt. If there is a common thread of conversation in text
i.e.
Man: last night as special
Woman: yeah same for me
Rape accusation follows, clearly is NOT true

instead of
Man: last night was special
woman: (no response)
Rape accusation follows, should not taken as evidence of anything

The more nonsensical feminist argument being made is that it is an 'invasion of privacy' and 'just as violating as the rape itself'

Ilovemycharlie · 01-06-2019 4:45am

Believe the man always.

iptba · 13-06-2019 6:38pm

I wasn't sure which thread to post this in.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1139213779403706370

It seems some people want to deny Paddy Jackson a livelihood. He was acquitted of the crime.
I didn't follow the trial much, but didn't get the impression his behaviour was exemplary. At the same time, it seems to be a worrying precedent if people acquitted from crimes might no longer be able to work.

py2006 · 13-06-2019 7:39pm

Feminists had him guilty before the trial and indeed after.

The guy was deemed innocent and deserves to live his life.

is_that_so · 13-06-2019 7:46pm

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't sure which thread to post this in.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1139213779403706370

It seems some people want to deny Paddy Jackson a livelihood. He was acquitted of the crime.
I didn't follow the trial much, but didn't get the impression his behaviour was exemplary. At the same time, it seems to be a worrying precedent if people acquitted from crimes might no longer be able to work.

They can. There was a football player, Ched Evans, who was found guilty, imprisoned, released, then was found not guilty in a retrial. He's still playing. Jackson's problem is his other stuff around it, the very public nature of the trial and the nature of what occurred.

iptba · 14-06-2019 12:44am

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't sure which thread to post this in.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1139213779403706370

It seems some people want to deny Paddy Jackson a livelihood. He was acquitted of the crime.
I didn't follow the trial much, but didn't get the impression his behaviour was exemplary. At the same time, it seems to be a worrying precedent if people acquitted from crimes might no longer be able to work.

I see some people on Twitter saying they're going to boycott Diageo because of this.

Kimsang · 14-06-2019 6:52pm

He's gone from being a rapist to someone that 'disrespects women'. Same crime though, true story.

What business do 'Rape Crisis Centre' have in saying of an innocent person;
"Ms Blackwell said: "Lack of respect for women was shown in the WhatsApp group and the fact a girl left his house in a state of distress"

py2006 · 14-06-2019 7:12pm

I said it before and I will say it again, women have and will always have the power to completely and utterly destroy a man's life with a simple allegation. Knowing full well they won't be held accountable.

Kimsang · 14-06-2019 7:30pm

Unless of course you are Keanu Reeves,

so-youre-telling-me-l-can-dodge-lawsuits-no-neo-30128893.png

Reeves is being hailed as a 'Respectful King' by CNN

Also interesting this Korean MMA artist's take on the Mike Pence rule;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEeDYHtz5fs
Because of this 'sexual harassment incident': https://streamable.com/3xh3l

Lean-In Canada finds that 60% of men in the workforce(up from 46% year previous) are reluctant or unwilling to have a closed door, private meeting with their female colleagues.
In the age where a man can be vaporized out of his life, by a pointed finger or a whispered accusation, why does this surprise feminists?
Feminists are calling this a 'me too backlash' but, is it not just good normal people protecting themselves?

Don't worry though- feminists have the answer. Make it illegal for men to follow the Mike Pence Rule.

silverharp · 14-06-2019 8:08pm

in a way Reeves is being very weak here, he isnt being respectful , just terrified of strange women. he would be better off just standing there and folding his arms

Kimsang · 14-06-2019 8:42pm

silverharp wrote: »

in a way Reeves is being very weak here, he isnt being respectful , just terrified of strange women. he would be better off just standing there and folding his arms

Maybe he's terrified of losing everything he has worked so hard to for, by a pointed finger or whispered accusation.

Its interesting how split feminists seem to be on this issue,some of them calling him a 'respectful king' while the rest are calling him weak and sexist.

silverharp · 14-06-2019 8:54pm

Kimsang wrote: »

Maybe he's terrified of losing everything he has worked so hard to for, by a pointed finger or whispered accusation.

Its interesting how split feminists seem to be on this issue,some of them calling him a 'respectful king' while the rest are calling him weak and sexist.

he should be defensive, its just a weak way of doing it, he is pretending to be approachable when in fact he is the opposite

iptba · 14-06-2019 10:15pm

I saw Maura trending on Twitter. Nice to see critical comments like the following:

https://twitter.com/lookingforlewys/status/1139639293402632194
https://twitter.com/quidditchgirl89/status/1139639491424116737
https://twitter.com/YasmineKathleen/status/1139639825068249088
https://twitter.com/CrathorneChloe/status/1139639494234333184

I've never seen this programme myself.

Kimsang · 14-06-2019 10:30pm

iptba wrote: »

I've never seen this programme myself.

Same boat here, but your post sparked my interest. Seems this is the scene they are referring to

I guess as a game-show where the object is to hook up, the rules of engagement are somewhat different from normal, but in saying that I'd agree the whole of UK would call this guy a 'low-key sexual predator' if the genders were reversed.

Wibbs · 15-06-2019 8:58am

silverharp wrote: »

in a way Reeves is being very weak here, he isnt being respectful , just terrified of strange women. he would be better off just standing there and folding his arms

I wouldn't call him "weak" at all. I'd say he's a man who has adapted to the environment. He's been well known in the industry for not being a gobsh1te around women and when he first broke as a star the temptation must have been enormous.

Standing there folding his arms would look try hard, too self conscious, "weak" actually. Unlike the timid types who do the hovering hands, a very large proportion of women would only love to get into a clinch with him. That he flips that around is anything but weak.

Plus he's nearly a meme of the "genuinely nice man, who's also only gorgeous" so he would have an even bigger target on his head for some crazy bint.

As I've noted before look how different men in different industries get the beady eye on them. Hollywood types are major targets, ditto for big business sports and political types. Yet save for rappers(which is mostly a race thing in the US), rock star types are generally left alone. Indeed the more depraved their rep, the less likely they are to have a #metoo moment against them. They're often celebrated for their whoring. QV the Rolling Stones, Motley Crue and so on. Hell David Bowie had sex with underage girls and his rep is still intact. Jimmy Page ditto. And that list is long. Again Black guys like Chuck Berry and Marvin Gaye caught flak for it.

It seems what really triggers this stuff and to a large extent understandably so is the level of hypocrisy going on. Hollywood loudly proclaims itself as squeaky clean and "liberal", so finding out some star is a bit of a creep gets the attention. Some grubby heavy rock outfit that openly declare themselves as whoremasters and hedonists, that's at least "honest". No hypocrisy.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-06-2019 3:06pm

"He's gone from being a rapist to someone that 'disrespects women'. Same crime though, true story."

I feel like that narratives has been pushed since the late 90s. As in the tie in between negative male behaviour and one of the worst crimes a man commit.

And, to link it into false accusations, I feel like the words mysignist/creep/ sexist are micro- false accusations. Although, in the current climate, maybe not even micro.

Its interesting to think how often micro false accusations are used to win a pointless argument online :P

@Wibbs

You know, I think there's a few reasons for the rolling stone phenomenon.

1) They have female fans who will defend them.

2) I think women have a bit of a maddona whore thing going on in the same way men do. They're not husband material, so they're whore behaviour isn't actually negative.

3) They're not manipulative or mannish. Theyre attractiveness is actually quite feminine and not actually threatening.

@Psy2006

I feel like false accusers are very similar to rapists in the fact that they are predators, and predators only attack people who they think they can.

Excuse the incoherent reply, but I've glugged too much coffee. :P

Kimsang · 15-06-2019 5:04pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

"He's gone from being a rapist to someone that 'disrespects women'. Same crime though, true story."

I feel like that narratives has been pushed since the late 90s. As in the tie in between negative male behaviour and one of the worst crimes a man commit.

And, to link it into false accusations, I feel like the words mysignist/creep/ sexist are micro- false accusations. Although, in the current climate, maybe not even micro.

I believe the part that you left out of my quote is what 'proves' my point. It was Noeline Blackwell from the Dublin Rape Crisis centre who said:

Lack of respect for women was shown in the WhatsApp group and the fact a girl left his house in a state of distress

Might I add the context that she said this after he was cleared of the rape charges, to support the fact that his sponsor was removed.

So there is a clear link between a false accusation, ruining a person's life and then being called by a rape crisis centre 'disrespectful to women'.

THE DUBLIN RAPE CRISIS CENTRE (DRCC) say that Paddy Jackson’s attitude towards women hasn’t changed

Noeline Blackwell, CEO of the DRCC said that Diageo’s decision was brought about by what emerged from Jackson’s trial.

Remember the reason for his trial was to see if he was a rapist, not to see if he was disrespectful towards women.

Rape Crisis Ireland has absolutely no business in making such a statement.

Blackwell: A lack of remorse or any indication that attitudes have changed. They’re not the attitudes of Diageo. They are not the values of an awful lot of people here.”

So to summarize, it is Rape Crisis Ireland who's narrative has changed from. It is their narrative I am critiquing.

</edit> Larissa Nolan of the Sunday Times gives a good quick speech about it here in which she points out that 'they've decided they don't want the mobs brought upon their heads; sanctimonious and hypocritical, companies being weak to a vocal minority'

iptba · 16-06-2019 1:22am

Lots of people in society are role models. Should people be fired from such jobs where they are role models and be unable to get new employment if they have disrespected an individual of the opposite sex or made some other comments some people are unhappy with. Lots of feminists, for example, show bias. For example, this academic from another thread completely ignored male victims in a (media) piece complaining about how the media discuss domestic violence:

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0610/1054532-the-issues-with-how-the-irish-media-represent-domestic-violence/

Should she lose her job and should any potential employer be hounded if they try to employer? It would dramatically change how we do things.

False rape accusation...who would you believe?

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