I need a stern psychologist in Dublin

stainluss · 25-03-2019 5:34pm #1

I know it sounds stupid, but someone like Jordan Peterson* in the sense that they are more direct and prescriptive (not literally I know that's a psychiatrist) as I've had gentle ones in the past that I didn't listen to. It just wasn't a match for some reason.

It would be a great help if any names came to mind to DM, or even strategies for finding someone based on personality type

Trial and error in search of a personality that doesn't seem to be too common in these circles wouldn't necessarily be time or money efficient

*I don't mind if they agree politically with him or not

SuperRabbit · 28-03-2019 8:00pm

Going to try to interpret what you mean but no harm meant if this is way off...

If you want someone directive then maybe psychodynamic therapy (totally depends on the therapist, afaik modern psychodynamic is much less directive?) or CBT?

The reason why very directive therapy is uncommon nowadays is that it's generally been found to be a complete disaster. So if you want someone who'll give you "a kick up the arse" to do stuff you kind of know you need to do anyway maybe you'd like a life coach?

(If you are interested, to get an idea why people have directiveness practically beaten out of them on their training courses there is a great book called "Against Therapy" that gives you an idea of how very wrong it can go when you have an idea of what is right and you try to direct your client towards it)

CBear1993 · 25-07-2020 3:16pm

Mods: apologies for dragging this up and remove my post if it’s inappropriate.

Would also like a recommendation for this if possible by PM. I’ve read the charter, why can’t there be a single thread where people recommend only the professional they’re seeing if it’s successful and people can choose to PM them based on their description? Every personality is different I get that

Like the poster above, I have seen 2 therapists in Dublin about 18 months ago, Thankfully I’m in a better place now but I feel I could do with a short few sessions again.
They were lovely people and both well qualified. But they weren’t very direct and just sat back and didn’t say much.

I realize that it might be a lot of trial and error, but when you’re looking for someone on the various registers and websites, it’s very hard to get a feel for someone as it doesn’t list anything bar the type of people they work with and their experience.
Of course I’ve rang them up and had a chat, which is then awkward to say I’ll think about it and give you a ring. Everyone is gonna be nice on the phone!

Location: Dublin Northside but can travel for right person.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 25-07-2020 4:33pm

Jordan Peterson is actually a clinical psychologist, not a psychiatrist, just FYI!

What you're seeking sounds more like CBT or possibly solution focused therapy. What you're not looking for is humanistic / person-centred, or psychodynamic therapy.

Alternatively, I suggest calling a few therapists and explaining what you're seeking and asking whether they fit that or not. They'll either tell you yes or no - any other answer would suggest they're not what you're seeking, anyways!

Finally, why do you feel you need this type of therapist and relationship? Why not a supportive and empowering one?

CBear1993 · 25-07-2020 4:48pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Jordan Peterson is actually a clinical psychologist, not a psychiatrist, just FYI!

What you're seeking sounds more like CBT or possibly solution focused therapy. What you're not looking for is humanistic / person-centred, or psychodynamic therapy.

Alternatively, I suggest calling a few therapists and explaining what you're seeking and asking whether they fit that or not. They'll either tell you yes or no - any other answer would suggest they're not what you're seeking, anyways!

Finally, why do you feel you need this type of therapist and relationship? Why not a supportive and empowering one?

Thanks for the help. I saw a psychiatrist before and it was just weekly goal setting. It was effective at the time but I think now I just need someone to explain to me or help me realise why I think in certain ways, or have doubts, lose interest in things etc.
I’ve always been very inquisitive about the mind and rather than bottle it up or wait for it to pass I’d like to explore deeper why I’m experiencing it and how it relates to my daily life, and how I can cope with it or use it to make a positive change.

strandroad · 25-07-2020 4:59pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Like the poster above, I have seen 2 therapists in Dublin about 18 months ago, Thankfully I’m in a better place now but I feel I could do with a short few sessions again.
They were lovely people and both well qualified. But they weren’t very direct and just sat back and didn’t say much.

You're actually describing a coach not a therapist; the point of therapy is to guide you to explore and support you in arriving at your solutions, not to prescribe them or direct you in any particular way. You might want to redirect your search a bit and make sure you ask upfront but perhaps if you look for a psychology trained coach it might be what you need? Really hard to find quality there though.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 25-07-2020 6:08pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Thanks for the help. I saw a psychiatrist before and it was just weekly goal setting. It was effective at the time but I think now I just need someone to explain to me or help me realise why I think in certain ways, or have doubts, lose interest in things etc.
I’ve always been very inquisitive about the mind and rather than bottle it up or wait for it to pass I’d like to explore deeper why I’m experiencing it and how it relates to my daily life, and how I can cope with it or use it to make a positive change.

Psychiatrists tend to have very minimal therapeutic training.

It doesn't sound like you need to understand things, it sounds like you need to explore things emotionally.

Understanding is easy. Exploring emotions isn't. That's quite possibly why you "didn't listen" to the other therapists... because it's difficult and you preferred to rationalise.

As stated, therapy isn't to hand you answers. It's to help you unscrew yourself enough that you am empowered to make your own decisions and find your own answers.

I suggest you need to revise your goals and approach and expectations.

CBear1993 · 25-07-2020 9:53pm

strandroad wrote: »

You're actually describing a coach not a therapist; the point of therapy is to guide you to explore and support you in arriving at your solutions, not to prescribe them or direct you in any particular way. You might want to redirect your search a bit and make sure you ask upfront but perhaps if you look for a psychology trained coach it might be what you need? Really hard to find quality there though.

Spent time with a life coach before about a career change, thought they were a pile of bollocks to be quite honest. They’re all over LinkedIn these days, everybody is a life coach these days, so I’d agree with you in that regard.

Thanks for the advice on the therapy. When I was 23/24 I did a good 10-15 sessions with a highly qualified psychologist and also a few with a psychiatrist.

They definitely get you thinking and he tried a few CBT techniques, mentioned another thing EMT which he was studying. It was good at the time but I came away from it each week thinking a lot, it obviously sets off a lot of brain patterns. (As you can tell I’m not in any way scientific)

It was frustrating at times though, I would come to him / her each week wanting to ask lots of questions. They’d just sit and listen and maybe ask why I did this or that.

I’ll tell you what though, it’s a lot better than those poison antidepressants. Best thing I ever did was get off of those. My sister took an extremely small dosage last year for anxiety for 3 months and I told her as soon as she’s feeling well get the hell away from them. She is now and hasn’t looked back.

CBear1993 · 25-07-2020 9:58pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Psychiatrists tend to have very minimal therapeutic training.

It doesn't sound like you need to understand things, it sounds like you need to explore things emotionally.

Understanding is easy. Exploring emotions isn't. That's quite possibly why you "didn't listen" to the other therapists... because it's difficult and you preferred to rationalise.

As stated, therapy isn't to hand you answers. It's to help you unscrew yourself enough that you am empowered to make your own decisions and find your own answers.

I suggest you need to revise your goals and approach and expectations.

Very interesting. Yep would certainly need to take a different angle on it if I was going to give it a go again.

I just didn’t find a connection with the 3/4 I’ve seen. It’s finding someone that fits your personality. Don’t get me wrong I can talk all the advanced vocabulary in my day job, but it’s hard to beat someone being direct and telling you things in lay mans terms. No besting about the bush, this is what you’re doing / thinking and that’s why you behaved that way.

But then it’s not as simple as that is it? You have to explore it yourself emotionally, and bring up old memories or instances to change your pattern of thinking.

The CBT “train technique” of feelings, thoughts, and actions was the best tool I’d used.
Mindfulness was tough. Getting in touch with your senses and being in the moment. Struggled with that. Requires high levels of focus, patience and belief

CBear1993 · 26-07-2020 4:34pm

Thanks all. Began search today for a professional in Dublin. Some great resources on the sticky of this forum.

Aware & LLTTF have online courses that can be done in your own time, as well as courses to register for (they seem to be closed at present, probably with COVID)

I’m on the CBT register UK through the IABCP “find a CBT therapist” function.

Have found 4 in Dublin and contacted. Seems to be 80-100€ per session going by their websites. More expensive than Counsellors/therapists I have spoken to in the past. But maybe that’s the cost of CBT. It’s an investment in health for 5-8 sessions I’d imagine.

Will continue a search now for a few psychologists that are on the register

Jimmy Bottlehead · 26-07-2020 5:39pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Thanks all. Began search today for a professional in Dublin. Some great resources on the sticky of this forum.

Aware & LLTTF have online courses that can be done in your own time, as well as courses to register for (they seem to be closed at present, probably with COVID)

I’m on the CBT register UK through the IABCP “find a CBT therapist” function.

Have found 4 in Dublin and contacted. Seems to be 80-100€ per session going by their websites. More expensive than Counsellors/therapists I have spoken to in the past. But maybe that’s the cost of CBT. It’s an investment in health for 5-8 sessions I’d imagine.

Will continue a search now for a few psychologists that are on the register

Two things.

1) Aiming to change your lifelong thoughts and behaviours in 6-8 hours is, at the very least, very optimistic. I think you said you're about 30 in another post; that would assume that 8 hours can change 30 YEARS of habits. Let the therapist guide you on treatment length.

2) I'd suggest a person centred therapist, as your issues are clearly with relating and exploring emotions. You'll likely fall into the rational trap with CBT, an area you are comfortable in.
Person centred is, I feel, more likely to challenge you in the areas where you actually require it.

CBear1993 · 26-07-2020 6:52pm

Thanks Jimmy.

I’m 27 in a few weeks. If I’m gonna be at it for a long time, at those prices it’s gonna be a serious investment , on the basis that I’m seeing someone once a week. Not complaining, just need to find the right service when it’s very expensive.

I looked up the difference between psychotherapists and psychologists (clinical and Counselling psychologists, just psychologists don’t seem to be as well thought of?)

It appears psychotherapists or clinical psychologists are best to deal with depression etc?

The person centered Professional that you mention above, what sort of professional is that I’m looking for?
There’s over 500+ results in Dublin on the ICP register which I’m filtering though at the moment, that’s without visiting the psychologist register yet.

CBear1993 · 26-07-2020 6:59pm

I note there are the register of psychologists Ireland,
The Irish council for psychotherapists
And another one I’ve come across Not on the sticky of the forum - Irish association of humanistic and integrative psychotherapists ?

Googling humanistic and integrative but it’s all a lot to take in and which is best !

Jimmy Bottlehead · 27-07-2020 10:34am

In terms of training, generally the structure is as follows for professionals who work with mental illness:

Psychiatrists (medical doctors who specialise in mental illness)
Clinical and counselling psychologists (psychologists who work with mental illness, most graduates over the past decade or two obtained doctorates in their profession)
Psychotherapists (usually masters level)
Counsellors (usually degree level)

I'm open to correction on the above.

You'll get varied opinions around who's best for what, or best in general, but even within each professions there are good and bad professionals.
There are some who call themselves a 'psychologist' (after only completing a degree) but if they're working therapeutically, they should be either a qualified clinical or counselling psychologist.

Integrative psychologists or therapists use more than one type of therapy (maybe CBT, and they then integrate some psychodynamic work).
Person centred / humanistic psychologists or therapists solely use that type of therapy.

For yourself, I'd suggest person centred / humanistic or psychodynamic, or perhaps even Emotion Focused Therapy as its more exploratory and less open to rationalisation than some other forms of therapy.

CBear1993 · 27-07-2020 1:29pm

Many thanks for all your help Jimmy.

Are you able to advise on how most people pay for it?

I know already that waiting lists for public/low cost counselling services is very long.

In the past I have always went direct and paid for it myself. I'm in my mid 20s and I know this time it is going to have to be a long term commitment, but it is expensive at anywhere from €50-80 per session on a weekly basis. I know it is a long term investment in myself but it is going to be a big expense if I do it for 6 months - year.

Would it be worth my while taking out private health insurance under or around €1K per year through Laya or similar? I don't know if this would cover or discount therapy....

Jimmy Bottlehead · 27-07-2020 9:01pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Many thanks for all your help Jimmy.

Are you able to advise on how most people pay for it?

I know already that waiting lists for public/low cost counselling services is very long.

In the past I have always went direct and paid for it myself. I'm in my mid 20s and I know this time it is going to have to be a long term commitment, but it is expensive at anywhere from €50-80 per session on a weekly basis. I know it is a long term investment in myself but it is going to be a big expense if I do it for 6 months - year.

Would it be worth my while taking out private health insurance under or around €1K per year through Laya or similar? I don't know if this would cover or discount therapy....

You can ask therapists if they do sliding scales or low cost counselling, some may be willing. Or you can see where to make the cuts elsewhere; for example, coffee out, pubs, meals out, clothes shopping, grooming, etc. It depends how bad you want this to happen.
Alternatively, you can seek out therapists in training who may be willing to take you on to get their hours up. Email the likes of PCI College, for a start.

I can't advise on private health insurance, but you can claim back a percentage of psychotherapy through tax relief. Not sure of the particulars but I've done it successfully in the past. Fees are anywhere from €40 - €110, as an average range. I'm aware of higher.

CBear1993 · 28-07-2020 9:42am

Thanks a million!

Jimmy Bottlehead · 05-08-2020 11:06pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Had my first therapy session in over a year yesterday with a psychotherapist. After doing it I feel like I’m not sure if person centred therapy is for me. Is it possible to get a therapist who will engage more throughout the session , question or challenge your actions or thought processes?

They were a lovely person , and I’m sure if I commit to it he will be able to help me long term. I just know from previous experience that he seems like the type who will sit and listen and nod, and maybe say less than 5 mins worth at the end of the session.. ive been here before and don’t want to just turn up to someone once a week and offload my thoughts, for them to say nothing (is this their job? I don’t even know!)
I’m young enough and therapy is too expensive to not get the right treatment.

Anyone any suggestions on the type I would be after? Bear in mind I realise the first session is early days, and too quick to judge. But I am going to see 2 more next week before I make a decision on who to work with.

I asked him at the end of the session what methods he would use - person centred, CBT, thought management, integrative...

Mate, it's not somebody else's job to make decisions and dictate your life for you. You've spent one hour with this person, and you already expect results and/or changes?

Look, you either commit to this properly or you don't. You're not going to undo decades of thinking patterns in sixty minutes, but as you state you have experience, maybe you know more than somebody who has (presumably) spent years learning their craft. I don't know. But your posts read like you want someone to tell you what's wrong, fix your broken mind, make decisions for you and basically hand you a fully functioning life and... I'm afraid to say, that's not how it works.

JuliusCaesar · 27-08-2020 3:51pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

I’m on the CBT register UK through the IABCP “find a CBT therapist” function.

Have found 4 in Dublin and contacted. Seems to be 80-100€ per session going by their websites. More expensive than Counsellors/therapists I have spoken to in the past. But maybe that’s the cost of CBT. It’s an investment in health for 5-8 sessions I’d imagine.

Will continue a search now for a few psychologists that are on the register

With CBT there's a lot of homework between sessions, so that it's not 8 hours of therapy; it's 8 hours of sessions with a LOT of homework between sessions.

It may seem expensive, but there is often a reducing frequency of sessions. As you get better the sessions are fortnightly, then monthly and then that's the end. So 8 sessions aren't in 8 weeks, it could end up being over 6 months.

If you're looking for psychologists, the Psychological Society of Ireland is the professional body and has a list.

The Irish Council for Psychotherapy has descriptions of all the main therapy types on their site.

SuperRabbit · 04-09-2020 8:52pm

The main thing is you feel you click with the person you are talking to, once that bit is right then between the two of you you will work together to find a way of working that really suits you

Jimmy Bottlehead · 04-09-2020 9:11pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

What they said + if they are CBT therapists and not counsellors who use some CBT tools then they have a lot more training (about 4 extra years, depending, so 7 or 8 years in total) and spent a lot more money on their qualifications.

If that's the road you recommend, surely you would be recommending clinical or counselling psychologists as their training is more financially demanding and they've likely spent more time studying than a psychotherapist or counsellor?

CBear1993 · 04-09-2020 9:13pm

Doesn’t mean they’re any better though? Just cos you had the money to invest in the longer commitment?

Someone can be naturally made for the job and able to relate to people, didn’t want to undertake the long road of adding letters after your title and a few certificates.

Applies across most industries

Jimmy Bottlehead · 04-09-2020 9:20pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Doesn’t mean they’re any better though? Just cos you had the money to invest in the longer commitment?

Someone can be naturally made for the job and able to relate to people, didn’t want to undertake the long road of adding letters after your title and a few certificates.

Applies across most industries

That was the point I was making.

I agree with your first paragraph - a higher qualification doesn't automatically equal better results.

Second paragraph, not so much - a psychologist these days needs a doctorate, and most have done a masters as well as at least one undergraduate degree, so they're not 'a few certificates'.
'Relating to people' is important, but bring adept at therapy isn't a natural skill you're born with; it takes time and practice, and is vastly different from being able to chat and listen.

How you get on with the therapist is important but it is still the case that a psychologist has psychological knowledge AS WELL AS psychotherapeutic skills. Whether they're good, well that's a different kettle of fish.

SuperRabbit · 05-09-2020 12:34am

Ok sorry, I thought you were interested in CBT, I wasn't recommending it I wanted to share the information. I'll just delete it

I need a stern psychologist in Dublin

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