Councillor gets social and housing sorted. Met with protests.

Horsebox9000 · 06-11-2019 12:29am #1

Seriously... I'm baffled by this
https://twitter.com/ohnofalafel/status/1191471042109284352

What do people think?

[url]

https://twitter.com/1GaryGannon/status/1191344958286041089[/url]

Quantum Erasure · 06-11-2019 1:16am

https://twitter.com/1GaryGannon/status/1191344958286041089

click onto his twitter, the thread is worth reading

Atlantic Dawn · 06-11-2019 1:17am

How much is "cost rental" of property built on publically owned lands?

Gatling · 06-11-2019 1:25am

Kip of a place ,

Let me guess they wanted 100% social housing where people just stop paying rent

Cookie_Monster · 06-11-2019 1:34am

Gatling wrote: »

Kip of a place ,

Let me guess they wanted 100% social housing where people just stop paying rent

they'll get it too, no one is going to be stupid enough to pay full market prices in an estate like that, why would you?

Gatling · 06-11-2019 1:37am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they'll get it too, no one is going to be stupid enough to pay full market prices in an estate like that, why would you?

The estate should be flattened and replaced with affordable housing not social housing the place for most part was a no go zone

purifol0 · 06-11-2019 1:41am

Everyone hating on Gary Gannon for this but cmon its entirely FG's fault if thats the best deal the councillors could get in years. The SocDems aren't the policy makers and FFG are in govt nearly a decade.

Just a throwback to 2017 after the Taoiseach was posing on Twitter with a hard hat and shovel swaggering about a new estate of affordable homes, Eoin O broin lambasted him for reckoning that 400k was affordable:

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/11/08/i-cant-answer/

Things have gotten steadily worse.

Varik · 06-11-2019 2:09am

Idiots seem to just be going after him for the 310k, they seem to think that's going to be the going rate for any of them.

Value he put up was literally the max they could be, they can't be higher than that as it's the max for the Affordable Housing scheme. Which is a stupidly good deal in itself, better than anyone is going to get normally.

Most don't seem to realise that it's part of a scheme, that it's an "Affordable House" and not a house that is affordable. Tweeting that they won't get a mortgage off AIB for 310k, and completely obvious that that's the point.

StupidLikeAFox · 06-11-2019 2:15am

Apparently a couple on 25k each would be eligible for those 310k houses under a rebuilding Ireland loan. Repayments of 1k per month That is very affordable in my book

joeysoap · 06-11-2019 2:20am

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Apparently a couple on 25k each would be eligible for those 310k houses under a rebuilding Ireland loan. Repayments of 1k per month That is very affordable in my book

Would they still have to have a deposit?

FTA69 · 06-11-2019 8:34am

The usual nonsense of decanting public wealth into the hands of developers again. This is the same process that has ruined working class areas of London and Paris. Near me, hundreds of local authority flats were rezoned to a developer who promptly demolished them and then built a load of luxury flats which were sold off-plan to
Investors who now charge people a fortune in rent to live in.

What Ireland needs is a system of mass state-built housing that is affordable to rent by working people, not flogging off the family silver to landlords and developers. There is no “market solution” to the housing situation, that nonsense has failed in every major city.

lola85 · 06-11-2019 8:54am

FTA69 wrote: »

The usual nonsense of decanting public wealth into the hands of developers again. This is the same process that has ruined working class areas of London and Paris. Near me, hundreds of local authority flats were rezoned to a developer who promptly demolished them and then built a load of luxury flats which were sold off-plan to
Investors who now charge people a fortune in rent to live in.

What Ireland needs is a system of mass state-built housing that is affordable to rent by working people, not flogging off the family silver to landlords and developers. There is no “market solution” to the housing situation, that nonsense has failed in every major city.

Where do they build though?

Every development is been met by objections from the locals backed by local TDs.

Then when they bring in fast track planning they have people like Pat Kenny ranting on the radio about it.

Saint Anne’s.
Coolock.
Inchicore.
Clondalkin.

This crisis won’t be solved as there is too many obstacles by NIMBYS and red tape.

Fr_Dougal · 06-11-2019 9:04am

A foreva home should be free. Can’t be paying for your own house.

is_that_so · 06-11-2019 9:21am

FTA69 wrote: »

The usual nonsense of decanting public wealth into the hands of developers again. This is the same process that has ruined working class areas of London and Paris. Near me, hundreds of local authority flats were rezoned to a developer who promptly demolished them and then built a load of luxury flats which were sold off-plan to
Investors who now charge people a fortune in rent to live in.

What Ireland needs is a system of mass state-built housing that is affordable to rent by working people, not flogging off the family silver to landlords and developers. There is no “market solution” to the housing situation, that nonsense has failed in every major city.

There are a few issues now in the housing market. The private end of it seems to be reaching a balance between supply and demand. Where there is still a massive issue is in social housing, itself a victim of low building outputs and large sell-offs. This seems to be underway, albeit very slowly. We also need apartments, lots of them, in urban centres. That's a planning authority remit with all the regulations they apply to them.

FTA69 · 06-11-2019 9:23am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

A foreva home should be free. Can’t be paying for your own house.

I don’t get this “foreva home” b*llocks that comes up everytime someone suggests building social housing.

What social housing was originally for and when it was at its most successful, it provided affordable rental accommodation for people in work. It was only in relatively recent times these estates become dumping grounds for the socially marginalised.

The amount of money it takes to buy a home in terms of percentage income has skyrocketed, rents are through the roof and the idea that a cabal if developers are going to provide enough housing to meet the common good has been shown across the world to be utter rubbish.

The system is bigger than w*nkers like Gary Gannon or Hazel Chu so bashing them as people is probably the wrong approach, but the current housing situation is a farce and needs a radical overhaul.

lola85 · 06-11-2019 9:27am

FTA69 wrote: »

I don’t get this “foreva home” b*llocks that comes up everytime someone suggests building social housing.

What social housing was originally for and when it was at its most successful, it provided affordable rental accommodation for people in work. It was only in relatively recent times these estates become dumping grounds for the socially marginalised.

The amount of money it takes to buy a home in terms of percentage income has skyrocketed, rents are through the roof and the idea that a cabal if developers are going to provide enough housing to meet the common good has been shown across the world to be utter rubbish.

The system is bigger than w*nkers like Gary Gannon or Hazel Chu so bashing them as people is probably the wrong approach, but the current housing situation is a farce and needs a radical overhaul.

We’re on course to build 11,000 social houses this year.

How much more do you think we should build?

Gatling · 06-11-2019 9:29am

lola85 wrote: »

We’re on course to build 11,000 social houses this year.

How much more do you think we should build?

Currently over 100,000 families + and singletons waiting on social housing across the country I'd imagine that they all want a new house

Scoundrel · 06-11-2019 9:34am

What always baffles me about debates like this is that there are people who are happy to be ripped off by private developers and banks and almost revel in the fact that they spend a huge % of their income just to have a have a place to sleep and go apoplectic with rage when people suggest that Government should build housing for all not scumbag speculators and profiteers.

is_that_so · 06-11-2019 9:37am

Gatling wrote: »

Currently over 100,000 families + and singletons waiting on social housing across the country I'd imagine that they all want a new house

There are a lot of vacant houses in the country, although it has to be said some in places people couldn't be expected to live but there seems to be work ongoing on that.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/home-ownership/vacant-homes/vacant-homes

lola85 · 06-11-2019 9:46am

Gatling wrote: »

Currently over 100,000 families + and singletons waiting on social housing across the country I'd imagine that they all want a new house

Unfortunately that would cost about 100 billion.

Horsebox9000 · 06-11-2019 9:48am

FTA69 wrote: »

I don’t get this “foreva home” b*llocks that comes up everytime someone suggests building social housing.

What social housing was originally for and when it was at its most successful, it provided affordable rental accommodation for people in work. It was only in relatively recent times these estates become dumping grounds for the socially marginalised.

The amount of money it takes to buy a home in terms of percentage income has skyrocketed, rents are through the roof and the idea that a cabal if developers are going to provide enough housing to meet the common good has been shown across the world to be utter rubbish.

The system is bigger than w*nkers like Gary Gannon or Hazel Chu so bashing them as people is probably the wrong approach, but the current housing situation is a farce and needs a radical overhaul.

Is Gary really the wanker though? You talk about a housing crisis and he finally got some movement on that site. If he stayed the same and asked for 100% social there the council would have been blamed for nothing being built.
So surely a mix of private and public housing is the perfect recipe everyone has been looking for and it's still an issue.

The forevea home I imagine is aimed at Margaret Cash who was told he her compatriots that she deserved a forever home for ... well for what I don't know... but it seems there is a very small group of people in receipt of social who think they are owed a forever home from the government.

suicide_circus · 06-11-2019 9:51am

can someone explain to a simpleton what this is about?

Horsebox9000 · 06-11-2019 9:57am

suicide_circus wrote: »

can someone explain to a simpleton what this is about?

So site was vacant for years
People wanted it 100% social but government wasn't going to fund that.
Private developer stepped in and people said they can't afford it and it will be out of touch for the area.
Site is sold but Gary managed to secure near 300 social and affordable houses out of the deal from the private developer.
Locals protest because he couldn't get everything for free and they can't comprehend what max value means
This is the sad truth
Tl;dr bunch of knackers protesting over something not being free enough

Boggles · 06-11-2019 10:10am

Bartra has agreed to sell around 30% of the 824 planned homes at market value to an approved housing body to be used as affordable rental units

Hang on, it's public land and the developer will sell the houses back at market value?

I thought the idea of giving developers land was that the houses would be "affordable" i.e below the crazy market value.

Beta Ray Bill · 06-11-2019 10:19am

Place it perfect for high density housing.
Close to the centre or town on what is now an absolute dump of an area

Map View link:
https://goo.gl/maps/yAUWCmAdBkWjcPXj8

Street View link:
https://goo.gl/maps/tCozWwSYUTQM5we19

The problem isn't the buildings, it's who going to be moved in to what is now a very exclusive/hipster area of Dublin

ednwireland · 06-11-2019 10:20am

Boggles wrote: »

Hang on, it's public land and the developer will sell the houses back at market value?

I thought the idea of giving developers land was that the houses would be "affordable" i.e below the crazy market value.

surely the council is contracting the builder, getting the social housing atbuild cost and allowing the builder to make some money on selling the 164 units.

oh wait ..... that would be sensible

suicide_circus · 06-11-2019 10:51am

god forbid some people not reliant on the state might be able to live near the city centre

Beta Ray Bill · 06-11-2019 10:59am

suicide_circus wrote: »

god forbid some people not reliant on the state might be able to live near the city centre

I get what you're saying.
I think this mainly a younger generation though, late 20's that want to live in or very close to the city centre.
Usually they are employed by large multi nationals and have a good wage.

It's not unreasonable for them to want to live close to where they work.

What they would argue though is that: it is unreasonable that people who have never worked get to live there for free or very little because they're from there

Tricky issue to solve.
Gentrification is generally a bad thing, however, the middle class are paying for the running of the country at them moment and can't really big ignored.

seamus · 06-11-2019 11:13am

It's Paul Murphy and Rise rabble-rousing.

They want the government to build 1950s-style state housing ghettos.

I'm not a big fan of absolutely relying on the private sector for housing stock, but we have a crisis, and it needs solving. Every new unit helps regardless of who builds it.

"Gentrification" being a bad thing is imported from overseas. In other countries, chunks of property in an area is bought up and upgraded. The local authority is then bribed to bring in laws forcing existing property owners to improve their property. They have no money, so they're forced to sell up for peanuts and move out.

This doesn't and can't happen in Ireland. Gentrification means that existing property owners see the value of their properties increase without doing a thing. They can hang around all they like or they can sell up at a tidy profit. People in local authority housing are unaffected.

You do hear some people complain that it's ruining the "culture" of the city centre, but basically what they mean is that they don't want to see young Irish people who aren't from the inner city or foreigners start moving in. So this argument can fvck right off.

Beta Ray Bill · 06-11-2019 11:24am

I'd have to disagree with you a bit on the Gentrification

I'm working up the top of Camden St and there is big developments going on up here.
Anyone who owns property up here is seeing it's value rise because of all modern buildings going up.

Lots of derelict buildings and substandard rental accommodation because the owner is waiting for the buy out.

Same is happening in East Wall.
If you look at East Wall on the maps it's completely surrounded with modern offices and apartment blocks, property is very expensive there now. If you're from there and want to buy a a house there, the likely hood is you wont be able to.

But again, it's the people that are driving the economy that want to live there.

I think ultimately there needs to be a Social Housing/Urban development policy in place that everyone (councils/government/developers) across the country implement and adhere to.
Basically a 20 year plan on "what" is acceptable to go where.

seamus · 06-11-2019 11:32am

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

If you're from there and want to buy a a house there, the likely hood is you wont be able to.

I don't see the issue tbh. I appreciate that it's frustrating, but there's no good reason why anyone should be entitled to buy where they grew up.

I think ultimately there needs to be a Social Housing/Urban development policy in place that everyone (councils/government/developers) across the country implement and adhere to.
Basically a 20 year plan on "what" is acceptable to go where.

This I agree with. A solid spread of social housing is essential. It does no-one any good to force all social tenants into a single area, or out of cities (or upmarket suburbs). Previous policies have been painfully weak, allowing developers to buy their way out of providing it.

Councillor gets social and housing sorted. Met with protests.

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