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09-12-2019, 11:27   #436
ArmaniJeanss
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Originally Posted by 8-10 View Post
I don't know why this 'clear and obvious error' even needs to be a thing?

Look at what the likes of the NFL or MLB does.

Show the replay, VAR official reviews it as if no decision has already been made. VAR official makes the correct judgement based on the footage. Gets relayed to the referee to enact the decision. Whether that is the same or the opposite of the ruling on the pitch is completely immaterial.
You are wrong there - For lots of these decisions in NFL, it works the same as VAR. The original decision is what they stick with it unless, as the commentators put it, 'there is enough to overturn it'. The original decision is still hugely important.
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09-12-2019, 11:41   #437
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The ref running over to the screen thing to have a look is not needed and is just theater.

In other sports the decision is made and relayed, simple as that.

No need for extra time wasting.
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09-12-2019, 11:58   #438
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Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
I wonder could it be a situation where there are say 5 refs in a VAR room, and for a subjective incident, they all independently vote on what they think the correct decision is, and if it is 5-0, or even 4-1, in favour of a particular decision, then that is what the decision will be, and if the ref had originally made a different one, such a margin in votes represents a clear and obvious error.


Whereas as if it is only 3-2, or, of course, if a majority end up agreeing with the ref's original decision, then it will not be overturned.
do you think they could get an X-Factor style dramatic pause and announcement "and the decision is...……………..OVERTURNED"
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09-12-2019, 12:29   #439
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Originally Posted by ArmaniJeanss View Post
You are wrong there - For lots of these decisions in NFL, it works the same as VAR. The original decision is what they stick with it unless, as the commentators put it, 'there is enough to overturn it'. The original decision is still hugely important.
Fair enough I don't watch much of it, ignore that part my point was ignore the original decision
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09-12-2019, 12:44   #440
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Originally Posted by ArmaniJeanss View Post
You are wrong there - For lots of these decisions in NFL, it works the same as VAR. The original decision is what they stick with it unless, as the commentators put it, 'there is enough to overturn it'. The original decision is still hugely important.
The NFL terminology is the decision is confirmed or the decision stands. One means they were right and the other is 'right enough'.

Cricket also favours the original decision to the extent that you don't even lose your review if it is fails based on the umpire's original decision. They also get 'soft decisions' for disputed catches and runouts to guide the third umpire whether there is enough evidence to overturn it.

Football has some sort of fear and cynicism of the original decision in real time.
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09-12-2019, 12:45   #441
osarusan
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Originally Posted by 8-10 View Post
I don't know why this 'clear and obvious error' even needs to be a thing?

Show the replay, VAR official reviews it as if no decision has already been made. VAR official makes the correct judgement based on the footage. Gets relayed to the referee to enact the decision. Whether that is the same or the opposite of the ruling on the pitch is completely immaterial.

Just make the right call on the VAR footage. That's all. Stop worrying about hurting referees' feelings.

You're giving a qualified referee in the VAR room footage of an incident. They are more than qualified to make that decision on their own and without concern for the judgement of another person who didn't have access to the same footage.

If it gets referred to VAR, that official's decision should be objective and final.
I don't have a problem with getting rid of the 'clear and obvious error' part, but that is what is there now.

So it's not just a case of review the footage and make a decision, because the question is not simply 'Should this be a red card/penalty or not?', the question is 'Did the referee make a clear and obvious error about this penalty/red card'?

So at the moment, 'clear and obvious error' is a part of it, and needs to be defined/explained. It hasn't been defined/explained so far I think....like everything else about the process.
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09-12-2019, 12:48   #442
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Originally Posted by Ashbourne hoop View Post
That'll really speed up the process....awful idea

I actually think it would speed up the process.

No discussion, just play the replays, and ask a question: "Do you think this is a penalty/red card?" then the 5 refs cast private Yes/No votes and you check the tally. If it's 5-0 or 4-1, that constitutes a 'clear and obvious' penalty/red card, and if the ref's decision was different, he made a clear and obvious mistake. So the decision is confirmed or overturned, then relay that to the on-field ref.

I'm not talking about public votes and flashing lights in the VAR room, just more than one ref there to make a decision.

Last edited by osarusan; 09-12-2019 at 14:20.
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09-12-2019, 13:59   #443
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So at the moment, 'clear and obvious error' is a part of it, and needs to be defined/explained. It hasn't been defined/explained so far I think....like everything else about the process.
I'm saying it needs to be dropped (or drop VAR altogether)

It's not like it's set in stone for the season, they've introduced VAR within a season to competitions (happened last year was it CL knockouts?)

Nothings stopping them from getting rid of clear and obvious or getting rid full stop.
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