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Martin Nolan give 1 year to guilty pedo.

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  • Options
    #332
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Irish Guitarist wrote:
    Which of these men is a bigger scumbag?

    Who is the second guy?


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    #333
    Cyclingtourist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    I actually think it was to "make an example" and discourage teachers from doing this.

    Yes the message will have gone out loud and clear to teachers

    "hands-off the horny little bastards till they're at least seventeen."


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    #334
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    tritium wrote: »
    Is the solution to previous poor sentencing really more poor sentencing?

    You say "previous poor sentencing" as if this judge has turned over a new leaf and decided to start handing out more deserving punishments. This is the one sex offence this judge has decided to give a harsh sentence to. I guarantee you that the next male sex offender that has done something far worse that appears before this judge will get either a very lenient sentence or a suspended sentence.


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    #335
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Who is the second guy?

    Ian Watkins from Welsh band Lostprophets, serving a 35 year sentence for baby rape.


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    #336
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    KathleenGrant wrote: »
    Comparing it to other cases which may have had lenient sentences is not the point. Comparing Irish law to laws in other countries is not the point. She was an adult who was aware of her legal responsibility with regard to minors. Ok she waited till his birthday but she must have been lusting after a child before that. She deserves to lose her job and she deserves to do jail.

    It is the point when it was the same judge handing out these sentences.


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    #337
    KathleenGrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭KathleenGrant


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    It is the point when it was the same judge handing out these sentences.

    She broke the law. She pays the price.


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    #338
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Irish Guitarist wrote:
    Ian Watkins from Welsh band Lostprophets, serving a 35 year sentence for baby rape.

    Oh right. I know that guy. He's terrible. I would class him as worse than the other guy.

    Baby rape is worse than ****ing a teenager.

    Why is this a question?


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    #339
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Irish Guitarist wrote:
    It is the point when it was the same judge handing out these sentences.

    Terrible judge. Should be made resign. We agree there.


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    #340
    bunderoon
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭bunderoon


    KathleenGrant wrote: »
    She broke the law. She pays the price.

    She got a 66% reduction in sentence as long as she stays away from kids willies


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    #341
    Cyclingtourist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    bunderoon wrote: »
    She got a 66% reduction in sentence as long as she stays away from kids willies

    What! She's into goats as well?


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    #342
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say that this post kinda nullifies any further pointa you have to make.

    The teacher who had sex with a child is not the issue?

    Jesus

    With all due respect, don't be an idiot. The issue is not that she was a teacher, it's that he was 16. That's the law. Her being his teacher is an ethical issue, but the poster had already said that ethical issues concerning whether there was any trauma suffered, or whether it was consensual were irrelevant, and from a strictly legal point of view that poster is correct. Therefore the fact that she was his teacher is not the issue, because the issue was a legal one, not an ethical one.

    I explain all of this in my post, or at least do the person you are replying to the courtesy of properly reading their post.

    Jesus.


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    #343
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    RandomName2 wrote:
    With all due respect, don't be an idiot. The issue is not that she was a teacher, it's that he was 16. That's the law. Her being his teacher is an ethical issue, but the poster had already said that ethical issues concerning whether there was any trauma suffered, or whether it was consensual were irrelevant, and from a strictly legal point of view that poster is correct.

    You explain **** all. You said that the law is that he was underage, that's the only legal factor. It isn't.

    The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, passed by the Oireachtas in 2017, created a new law for punishing those who have sex with persons under the age of consent.

    the maximum sentence for those who have sex with children under the age of 17 (defilement) is seven years, but it rises to 15 years “if he or she is a person in authorityâ€

    This applies to parents, step parents, teachers etc.

    That is the law. So with due respect, I'll take an apology for being called an idiot.


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    #344
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Ironicname wrote: »
    You explain **** all. You said that the law is that he was underage, that's the only legal factor. It isn't.

    So is the law one other than defilement?
    Ironicname wrote: »
    The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, passed by the Oireachtas in 2017, created a new law for punishing those who have sex with persons under the age of consent.

    the maximum sentence for those who have sex with children under the age of 17 (defilement) is seven years, but it rises to 15 years “if he or she is a person in authorityâ€

    This applies to parents, step parents, teachers etc.

    That is the law. So with due respect, I'll take an apology for being called an idiot.

    Nope, so the law is that of defilement. Defilement is sex between anyone and someone under the age of 17. So the issue was that she was over 18 and that he was 16. Sure.

    Sentencing guidelines state that a larger sentence can be passed where the guilty party is a person of authority in relation to the victim? That is good, but it doesn't change the law. The law is sex between anyone and someone under the age of 17.

    So if the poster wants to dismiss all ethical issues, concerning the student's agency, his consent, the effects of relationship on him, and any lasting impact it may have that's fine, because it does not relate to the legal definition, which is sex between anyone and someone under the age of 17.

    Now we may disagree that that should be the way the law is constructed. I for one would say that that law should be different. But if a poster is going to throw all the ethical aspects of this into the bin and just look at the legal core of this, namely sex between anyone and someone under the age of 17 who are we to argue?


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    #345
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    KathleenGrant wrote: »
    She broke the law. She pays the price.

    Plenty of men have broken the law by raping children too young to even know what sex is and they've gotten suspended sentences from this judge. Why is this the one sex offence that deserves to be punished more harshly than all the others that have been before him?


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    #346
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    Plenty of men have broken the law by raping children too young to even know what sex is and they've gotten suspended sentences from this judge. Why is this the one sex offence that deserves to be punished more harshly than all the others that have been before him?

    It's clearly two things: the fact that she was the guy's teacher, and that people believe (probably correctly) that there isn't equality of treatment in general in relation to female sex offenders.


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    #347
    tommyled1984
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭tommyled1984


    nullzero wrote: »
    This is just unbelievable.
    You should be ashamed of yourself for defending this woman (she isn't a "girl").

    You feel sorry for her, what a joke, she broke the law by having sex with a minor.
    The mental gymnastics you're engaged in are incredible. Shame on you and all those thanking your post.

    I'm not ashamed of myself at all. I gave my opinion and I stand by it. I'm entitled to do that. I said the law needs to be changed, I didn't say that she didn't break the law.
    You don't have a higher status than me or anyone else here, it's an open forum so my opinion holds as much water as yours. So you shouldn't hurl abuse at me for doing exactly that.


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    #348
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,360 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    tommyled1984 wrote: »
    I'm not ashamed of myself at all. I gave my opinion and I stand by it. I'm entitled to do that. I said the law needs to be changed, I didn't say that she didn't break the law.
    You don't have a higher status than me or anyone else here, it's an open forum so my opinion holds as much water as yours. So you shouldn't hurl abuse at me for doing exactly that.

    I didn't hurl abuse at you for starters.
    Secondly just because you are entitled to an opinion doesn't mean that the opinion you have is valid.
    The morality of sex with minors is cut and dry and any attempt to justify it is wrong.
    You say the law needs to be changed? Do you propose that sex with minors be acceptable in certain circumstances, such as a sexy twenty something teacher getting it on with a young fella who's barely old enough to shave?
    You can be guaranteed that the boy in question will suffer as a result of this situation, regardless of what you say or believe what happened was wrong as is you and others excusing it.

    Glazers Out!



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    #349
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭tritium


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    You say "previous poor sentencing" as if this judge has turned over a new leaf and decided to start handing out more deserving punishments. This is the one sex offence this judge has decided to give a harsh sentence to. I guarantee you that the next male sex offender that has done something far worse that appears before this judge will get either a very lenient sentence or a suspended sentence.

    If you think that’s s harsh sentence for the sexual offense of defilement of a child then you really have no clue. You must have been speechless with indignation at the sentence Tom Humphries received for the same crime


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    #350
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    nullzero wrote: »
    I didn't hurl abuse at you for starters.

    You only said that his post is unbelievable and that anybody thanking his mental gymnastics of defending peadophelia should be ashamed of themselves. I mean, that's not exactly hurling, more like nailing it on a placard.
    nullzero wrote: »
    Secondly just because you are entitled to an opinion doesn't mean that the opinion you have is valid.
    The morality of sex with minors is cut and dry and any attempt to justify it is wrong.

    So cut and dried that the law in every other country in Europe is different from ours. Clearly it must be that Ireland is more enlightened.
    nullzero wrote: »
    You say the law needs to be changed? Do you propose that sex with minors be acceptable in certain circumstances,

    So does the Oireachtas report, as I previously stated, for reasons that seem perfectly logical.
    nullzero wrote: »
    such as a sexy twenty something teacher getting it on with a young fella who's barely old enough to shave?

    Barely old enough to tie his own shoes, and needs a booster seat in his car that he drives to school and work in.
    nullzero wrote: »
    You can be guaranteed that the boy in question will suffer as a result of this situation, regardless of what you say or believe what happened was wrong as is you and others excusing it.

    Yes, but probably only due to the publicity generated, let's be honest.


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    #351
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭tritium


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    Plenty of men have broken the law by raping children too young to even know what sex is and they've gotten suspended sentences from this judge. Why is this the one sex offence that deserves to be punished more harshly than all the others that have been before him?

    Why should she get off lightly (and she did get of lightly btw) just because others have?

    Have two wrongs suddenly started to make a right?


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    #352
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    tritium wrote: »
    Why should she get off lightly (and she did get of lightly btw) just because others have?

    Have two wrongs suddenly started to make a right?

    How much more harshly do you think she should be punished? 10 years' prison time? Chemical castration? I'm assuming that's what you're aiming for here.


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    #353
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    tritium wrote: »
    If you think that’s s harsh sentence for the sexual offense of defilement of a child then you really have no clue. You must have been speechless with indignation at the sentence Tom Humphries received for the same crime

    It's harsh in comparison to the other sentences he's given. Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

    Tom Humphries was tried by a different judge.


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    #354
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭tritium


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    How much more harshly do you think she should be punished? 10 years' prison time? Chemical castration? I'm assuming that's what you're aiming for here.

    I’ve already given an example of another high profile case where the offender got 2.5 years, none of it suspended. The maximum in normal circumstances for this crime is 7 years. Given I’d see the grooming as a pretty severe aggravating factor I’d say 2.5 would be the minimum, albeit I’d understand if some commentators felt it was lenient, as indeed they did in that case.

    Seriously if you think a year in jail for what is essentially sexual abuse of a minor is harsh I don’t know what to say. God knows the angst you must feel for the guy he sent to jail for 6 years for importing garlic and claiming it was apples.


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    #355
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭tritium


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    It's harsh in comparison to the other sentences he's given. Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

    Tom Humphries was tried by a different judge.

    This judge jailed a guy for 6 years for falsely declaring imported garlic. He may be erratic but let’s not pretend he’s just plain easygoing. This lady in the scheme of things got off considerably lighter than her crime warranted. That’s not to say others haven’t benefitted also from his peculiar ways, but calling this harsh is a bit like a lotto winner grumbling because someone else won a bigger jackpot


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    #356
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭tritium


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    How much more harshly do you think she should be punished? 10 years' prison time? Chemical castration? I'm assuming that's what you're aiming for here.

    Now that I’ve answered you, let’s hear your thoughts: what is the appropriate sentence for the defilement of a just turned 16 year old child by an older adult in a position of authority?


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    #357
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    tritium wrote:
    Now that I’ve answered you, let’s hear your thoughts: what is the appropriate sentence for the defilement of a 16 year old child by an older adult in a position of authority?

    Hey, she lost her job and was embarrassed. Hasn't the poor girl suffered enough?


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    #358
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    tritium wrote: »
    Why should she get off lightly (and she did get of lightly btw) just because others have?

    Have two wrongs suddenly started to make a right?

    Jesus Christ. Talk about going around in circles.

    I don't give a shite about this teacher. But it's beyond ridiculous to convict a woman in her twenties that had sex with a teenager to twice the sentence as a man who spent two years raping his infant daughter. Neither of them are right but one is far, far worse than the other.

    And it's not 'two wrongs'. Every sexual offence that comes before this judge results in a suspended or extremely lenient sentence. But this is the one that he decides to give a harsh sentence to. And by harsh I mean harsh compared to his usual sentences for sexual offences. Next week this judge will most likely give another suspended sentence to a man for raping a child and say something like "he's suffered enough".

    Anyway that's it. I give up.


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    #359
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,997 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    I think the sentence was a bit harsh, young boys are aware of their sexual feelings from the age of 13 or younger, regardless of how the law works, nature kicks in.. I feel sorry for the teacher.


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    #360
    scudzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Unsure if the whatsapp pic of her are real, think they are, what a stunner, wonder why she went for a kid


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    #361
    Aubrielle Witty Logging
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Aubrielle Witty Logging


    A very important word in Irish law - Precedent.

    A lot of people in here comparing apples to egg fried rice.


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