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Refund or not

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  • 19-04-2021 2:11am
    #1
    Picky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭


    I sold an item recently. The guy paid me by cheque and was to come back to collect as he couldn't transport on the day. He asked me to get something done on it locally and he agreed to pay for this as an extra when collecting item.
    Prior to getting it done I sent him text with quote and also spoke to him on the phone and he gave the go ahead for it. So I got work done as requested.
    A couple days after he agreed to buy he phoned to say he no longer wanted the item. I explained to him I also got the work done as requested. He said he no longer could arrange to get it to his house so was pulling out of sale. I offered to get it delivered to him free of charge even though he lives over an hour away from me. He then said he just didn't want item anymore.
    He now wants a refund what are my rights here. Do I have to refund him? I told him item would be in my yard and he had two weeks to collect it and to pay me for work carried out.


Comments

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    #2
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,764 ✭✭✭con747


    Refund him less the cost of work he requested. Keep all correspondence relating to him agreeing to the work in case it goes legal. I can't see how he is not liable for the cost of the work he instructed you to do, but that's only my opinion.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #3
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,115 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Has the cheque cleared? Sounds like a well known scam where cheque bounces, you are then left out of pocket on the double.


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    #4
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,432 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Has the cheque cleared? Sounds like a well known scam where cheque bounces, you are then left out of pocket on the double.

    What? Where's the gain for a scammer in that?


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    #5
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    What? Where's the gain for a scammer in that?

    Bank releases funds, shop owner refunds customer, cheque later bounces. Shop owner loses money


  • Options
    #6
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Has the cheque cleared? Sounds like a well known scam where cheque bounces, you are then left out of pocket on the double.

    I know what you mean, but it doesn’t seem to apply in this case as the op still has the goods. But taking a cheque these days should certainly be avoided for the reason you mention.


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    #7
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I know what you mean, but it doesn’t seem to apply in this case as the op still has the goods. But taking a cheque these days should certainly be avoided for the reason you mention.

    The goods don't matter in this scam.

    I ask op for 1 widget.
    I send bad cheque to op for €500.
    I no longer want the widget.
    Op sends me €500 refund via western union.
    Two weeks later the cheque turns out to be stolen/forged.


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    jhegarty wrote: »
    The goods don't matter in this scam.

    I ask op for 1 widget.
    I send bad cheque to op for €500.
    I no longer want the widget.
    Op sends me €500 refund via western union.
    Two weeks later the cheque turns out to be stolen/forged.

    But the op still has the “widget”.

    Edit: Sorry, yes, I see what you mean.


  • Options
    #9
    dpforce
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭dpforce


    Typical scam. Check is used when scammer wants money not the item. Paypal is used when scammer wants item and don't want to pay.


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    #10
    JimmyAlfonso
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭JimmyAlfonso


    I know it doesn't help here but why is hell would you agree to get additional work done on the item??? That's the purchasers to sort out.


  • Options
    #11
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Picky wrote: »
    I sold an item recently. The guy paid me by cheque and was to come back to collect as he couldn't transport on the day. He asked me to get something done on it locally and he agreed to pay for this as an extra when collecting item.
    Prior to getting it done I sent him text with quote and also spoke to him on the phone and he gave the go ahead for it. So I got work done as requested.
    A couple days after he agreed to buy he phoned to say he no longer wanted the item. I explained to him I also got the work done as requested. He said he no longer could arrange to get it to his house so was pulling out of sale. I offered to get it delivered to him free of charge even though he lives over an hour away from me. He then said he just didn't want item anymore.
    He now wants a refund what are my rights here. Do I have to refund him? I told him item would be in my yard and he had two weeks to collect it and to pay me for work carried out.

    I assume you have the cheque lodged, if you haven't you will not get paid for the work you got done.
    If you haven't lodged just do today as i expect it has being stopped so there be no refund if cheque has not cleared.
    Do not worry about the buyer as worst that cam happen is you will not be paid for work.
    Under no circumstances give any refund until funds secure in your bank...


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    #12
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Picky wrote: »
    I have lodged cheque just waiting to see if it clears in bank. Was wary in case a scam to get me to hand over cash and then cheque bounce or he take item and don't get payment

    Make sure you ring the bank and check that it's fully cleared before doing anything - sometimes a cheque will show up on your account balance before it has actually cleared


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    #13
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    A stolen cheque can bounce weeks after it clears.


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    #14
    yoke
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭yoke


    This looks like a scam to me. They made you get the work done so you would be forced to cash the cheque to claim some of the money, as opposed to just giving them a refund by destroying or returning the cheque. It’s a trick to try and get you to “refund” the balance.

    Of course, you can’t partially cash a cheque, so if you cash the cheque and refund them the balance, they keep this and run off (when you cash the cheque, some time later the money will appear in your account, so you’ll assume the bank verified the cheque and put the money into your account. But basically the bank lies to you - it puts the money into your account without verifying the cheque, so you “can use the money sooner”. When it actually tries to verify the cheque some weeks later behind the scenes, the cheque will bounce and the money originally added to your account by the cheque will be silently taken out of your account again by your bank).

    Basically you have gotten work done on your property for nothing. You will never be paid for it. Cut your losses, report to the Gardai if the perpetrator is in Ireland, and move on.

    And next time don’t agree to be paid by cheque or bank transfer for anything (bank transfers can be reversed too, if they claim they were defrauded. Banks do **** all investigation).
    The only safe way to accept payment from someone you don’t trust us is to ask them to go to a bank with you where you can see them withdrawing money or making a bank draft in front of you. Or just accept cash, assuming you can spot counterfeit notes.


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    #15
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Picky wrote: »
    I have lodged cheque just waiting to see if it clears in bank. Was wary in case a scam to get me to hand over cash and then cheque bounce or he take item and don't get payment

    If his cheque turns out to be ok and you have to give him a refund, give him one of your own cheques less the amount for the work you did.


  • Options
    #16
    yoke
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭yoke


    emeldc wrote: »
    If his cheque turns out to be ok and you have to give him a refund, give him one of your own cheques less the amount for the work you did.

    If only it was that simple :) how will he know if the cheque is OK (aside from waiting for let’s say 2 months)?

    Besides that, if the OP is a private seller, I’m pretty sure they don’t have to accept a return, assuming the goods were as described.

    If someone were to rob the goods from the yard, after the buyer had stipulated to leave the item out in the yard, it would technically be a robbery from the buyer, not the seller whose yard the item was left in. Again, no refund in that scenario either - the buyer would need to chase it up/report it to the Gardai etc., not look for a refund from the seller.


  • Options
    #17
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Picky wrote: »
    I sold an item recently. The guy paid me by cheque and was to come back to collect as he couldn't transport on the day. He asked me to get something done on it locally and he agreed to pay for this as an extra when collecting item.
    Prior to getting it done I sent him text with quote and also spoke to him on the phone and he gave the go ahead for it. So I got work done as requested.
    A couple days after he agreed to buy he phoned to say he no longer wanted the item. I explained to him I also got the work done as requested. He said he no longer could arrange to get it to his house so was pulling out of sale. I offered to get it delivered to him free of charge even though he lives over an hour away from me. He then said he just didn't want item anymore.
    He now wants a refund what are my rights here. Do I have to refund him? I told him item would be in my yard and he had two weeks to collect it and to pay me for work carried out.

    Hi op.

    The only thing he's entitled to is the item after he pays you the balance due.

    It's up to you whether you want to refund him or not. It can all be negotiated at this point as you don't owe him anything.

    If you're able to sell the item with the modification it might be worth cutting your losses.


  • Options
    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,344 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Definitely a scam.... if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc etc. What I find fishy is the purchaser asking seller to ' get some work done' on the item & a ' song & dance' rigmarole about collecting the item. Its a DUCK


  • Options
    #19
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭emeldc


    yoke wrote: »
    If only it was that simple :) how will he know if the cheque is OK (aside from waiting for let’s say 2 months)?

    Besides that, if the OP is a private seller, I’m pretty sure they don’t have to accept a return, assuming the goods were as described.

    If someone were to rob the goods from the yard, after the buyer had stipulated to leave the item out in the yard, it would technically be a robbery from the buyer, not the seller whose yard the item was left in. Again, no refund in that scenario either - the buyer would need to chase it up/report it to the Gardai etc., not look for a refund from the seller.
    You’re over thinking it. If the cheque takes two months to clear then the buyer waits two months for a refund. Then refund him with a cheque less the amount for the work done. The buyer isn’t in a position to argue in my opinion.


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    #20
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,148 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    OP
    It sounds very dodgy. This scam was going around in different forms over the years. This looks like a variation on it. Cheque scams can take months go uncover. Is the sum substantial. The scammer may be using a stolen or a cheque from a bank abroad. In the case of the stolen one it depends on how long it takes the account holder to spot it. Foreign cheque's can take months to properly clear or get bounced again especially if stolen.

    Banks in general allow you access to funds from cheques straight away especially if a business account. As such they have not cleared. What happening has the potential to be a scam.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #21
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,148 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    emeldc wrote: »
    You’re over thinking it. If the cheque takes two months to clear then the buyer waits two months for a refund. Then refund him with a cheque less the amount for the work done. The buyer isn’t in a position to argue in my opinion.

    Even when the cheque clears there is a risk it was stolen. If stolen it depends on how long it takes an account holder to spot it. This could be months down the line again.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #22
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    SCAM SCAM SCAM
    I tried to lodge a cheque recently from Santander in NI. Bank Of Ireland gave me a form and told me to get it filled out and they would send it off. Expected time upto 2 months.
    They told me there are major issues at present with bouncing cheques so now they physically send them off before getting credited. We told the sender and they did an EFT next day.


    Do not, under any circumstance, give yer man cash.


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    #23
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Explain to your bank manager. They can get in touch with the other bank. The other bank can ring he who wrote the cheque and ask him if it's a genuine transaction or if possibly one of his cheques has been stolen. His bank will do this to protect him from theft.


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    #24
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Explain to your bank manager. They can get in touch with the other bank. The other bank can ring he who wrote the cheque and ask him if it's a genuine transaction or if possibly one of his cheques has been stolen. His bank will do this to protect him from theft.

    That only protects against the cheque being stolen, not the cheque being stopped after the fact or there being no money in the account

    Accepting a cheque from someone you don't know and trust is inherently unsafe and as they're such a tiny % of transaction volume now they need to be treated with extreme suspicion


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    #25
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Can you not get an express clearance on a cheque, or is that a thing of the past?


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    #26
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    L1011 wrote:
    That only protects against the cheque being stolen, not the cheque being stopped after the fact or there being no money in the account


    I agree but if buyer confirmed to their bank that it is a genuine transaction then once the cheque clears in 5 working days then that is the end of it. Getting the confirmation from the buyer rules out him claiming that the cheque was stolen. The biggest fear here is that cheque clears, seller refunds all or some of the money & then buyer claims cheque was stolen. Contacting the bank rules this out.

    I've said before that I still get several cheques per week & I've never any issues with them but I wouldn't take a cheque in a private sale as op has done. Bank transfer is the way to go or even cash if necessary


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    #27
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,526 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    emeldc wrote: »
    If his cheque turns out to be ok and you have to give him a refund, give him one of your own cheques less the amount for the work you did.

    No he does not, assuming he is a private seller and has not agreed any refund window, then the item belongs to the seller, and they can pick it up if they want.

    Since there was custom work done on the item, they would invalidate most return options in business terms.


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    #28
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Scam! Dont send him anything.
    Tell him his item is awaiting his collection.


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    #29
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Thats what i'd do too


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    #30
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,148 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Picky wrote: »
    I have checked and funds have cleared into account. I was very trusting to take a cheque now looking back as I never even thought to leave it clear before handing over the goods. Luckily they are still here so at least if he had cancelled cheque I still had them. I have sent him a message to collect item and that I am not responsible for it. Along with looking for extra payment for other work carried out

    Was the cheque an Irish cheque. Is it a sizeable amount. If he comes to collect it make sure he produces ID to match name on cheque. Take down number of what car he arrives in and ideally if you can sneak a photo or catch him on a camera or dash cam all the better

    Just because a cheque clears done not mean it cannot still bounce

    Slava Ukrainii



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