Female bullies-why do so many women have to make others feel like crap?!

lir6777 · 04-01-2012 12:46pm

Yeah that's definitely a good idea

I guess my reason for posting originally was to see whether I was the only person who found this happening in female groups, but it's been interesting to see that some people don't even view exclusion as bullying- we're all entitled to our own opinions, and I suspect that those of us viewing it as bullying are the ones it tends to happen to- but it shows me why so many people (in my experience) don't involve themselves to stick up for others- why would they if there isn't a problem in their opinions!? So that's been helpful to see.:rolleyes:

IvyTheTerrible · 04-01-2012 12:51pm

lir6777 wrote: »

Yeah that's definitely a good idea
I guess my reason for posting originally was to see whether I was the only person who found this happening in female groups, but it's been interesting to see that some people don't even view exclusion as bullying- we're all entitled to our own opinions, and I suspect that those of us viewing it as bullying are the ones it tends to happen to- but it shows me why so many people (in my experience) don't involve themselves to stick up for others- why would they if there isn't a problem in their opinions!? So that's been helpful to see.:rolleyes:

Eh, I think that's a bit of a generalisation tbh. I have been excluded by certain "friends". But I realised that for me, life is short, and I don't waste time on people who are clearly not interested in being a meaningful part of my life. Also, people change and move on, and sometimes, people who were friends at a certain part of our lives no longer want to be friends and it's better to let them go. I never said it is not upsetting or that is "isn't a problem".

Also, I wasn't trying to belittle your experience, I was just giving my opinion on what I would do.

EDIT: Saw lir6777 reply, oops!

lir6777 · 04-01-2012 12:56pm

I don't think my post came off right there- I was in no way taking offence at your post or feeling belittled. I appreciated your viewpoint, I was just saying that I really hadn't realised before that this behaviour wouldn't be construed as bullying by many people- so what I meant (and it may not have been clear) was that that was an eye-opener, cos I've sometimes been annoyed when my friends have turned a blind eye (or so it seemed), whereas I now realise that they probably just didn't feel it was a big deal. So please don't think I was narking- I'm genuinely happy to hear everyone else's opinion, even those which are different from mine.

lir6777 · 04-01-2012 12:58pm

bluewolf wrote: »

There's no need to be aggressive that some people don't agree with you

Please see my above post- clearly the tone of my previous post didn't come off right. I was not meaning to be aggressive in any way.

coffee_cake · 04-01-2012 1:00pm

lir6777 wrote: »

Please see my above post- clearly the tone of my previous post didn't come off right. I was not meaning to be aggressive in any way.

yeah that's why i deleted mine

stinkle · 04-01-2012 2:28pm

Hi OP, you mention that this is happening with a bunch of school friends - is there anything positive going on in your life that this girl might have a problem with? Like have you got a better job or something like that? You don't have to answer that or anything by the way, I'm just saying that she might have a chip on her shoulder about something, no matter how insignificant it might seem to you.

In my own experience a lot of that behaviour stems from some kind of jealousy (bit cliched, I know!) - and to be honest school friend relationships in adulthood are probably prone to that sort of dynamic, as everyone is probably doing wildly different things with their lives. Personally, that started early, as after school people seemed to have issue that a) I went to college, and b) I went to a "better" college (in their opinion of course!!!). As a result I never really stayed in touch with them, but it wasn't for lack of trying I can assure you. It was just assumed that I was now "above them" or whatever.

More recently, I got a new job and was on the receiving end of some exclusion stuff like you have experienced from my former colleagues. Ok so I don't work there anymore, but since I left there have been several other leaving parties/general social stuff that I really should have been invited to. One person tends to do the organising there and she's a bully alright. No idea what I have done to offend her, but it's most likely that I and others are all moving on, and she's stuck in the same job watching us all move on and the only consolation to her seems to be to act like it's primary school and invite/exclude who she likes.

Sorry for the long post, got carried away! I do agree that it's a form of bullying, by the way. If you can, try to get your other mates to include you, though I understand it might be hard but surely someone is a good enough friend to confide in.

Honey-ec · 04-01-2012 3:52pm

I think you have to allow yourself to be bullied. I have a group of friends and, much like the OP's situation, there's one particular girl who always made sure to exclude me from any group activities she organised. But, you know what? I don't like her and she doesn't like me, so I don't care - I wouldn't go to anything she's at anyway. I used to tolerate her for the sake of our mutual friends, but eventually just went "I'm too old to bother with this kind of crap, I don't like this girl, so I'm not going to be around her anymore."

Did she try to bully me? Absolutely. Did I feel bullied by her? Not in the least.

lir6777 · 04-01-2012 8:59pm

stinkle wrote: »

Hi OP, you mention that this is happening with a bunch of school friends - is there anything positive going on in your life that this girl might have a problem with? Like have you got a better job or something like that? You don't have to answer that or anything by the way, I'm just saying that she might have a chip on her shoulder about something, no matter how insignificant it might seem to you.

In my own experience a lot of that behaviour stems from some kind of jealousy (bit cliched, I know!) - and to be honest school friend relationships in adulthood are probably prone to that sort of dynamic, as everyone is probably doing wildly different things with their lives.
Sorry for the long post, got carried away! I do agree that it's a form of bullying, by the way. If you can, try to get your other mates to include you, though I understand it might be hard but surely someone is a good enough friend to confide in.

Thanks for that- yeah you may be right, there possibly is something she's envious of- which is sad, because I'm in no way the type to gloat or show off, so any reason for envy is in her head really.
Thanks for your opinion, it's nice to know that other people experience similar things and that it bothers them too- I am very sensitive and working on becoming more thick-skinned, so others' perspectives are very welcome.

lir6777 · 04-01-2012 9:03pm

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think you have to allow yourself to be bullied. I have a group of friends and, much like the OP's situation, there's one particular girl who always made sure to exclude me from any group activities she organised. But, you know what? I don't like her and she doesn't like me, so I don't care - I wouldn't go to anything she's at anyway. I used to tolerate her for the sake of our mutual friends, but eventually just went "I'm too old to bother with this kind of crap, I don't like this girl, so I'm not going to be around her anymore."

Did she try to bully me? Absolutely. Did I feel bullied by her? Not in the least.

I 100% agree with you- nobody can bully you unless you let them. Sadly this began at a time when I was really crap at asserting myself, but I'm getting better at standing up for myself now so hopefully won't attract this kind of behaviour from others in the future! Some people seem to have skills in finding people who'll take all sorts of crap.
Your attitude is great- I'm working on copying it!:) Hopefully if I think these things enough, they'll become automatic reactions so I'm able to remain unflapped when things like this go on!

nkay1985 · 04-01-2012 11:26pm

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think you have to allow yourself to be bullied. I have a group of friends and, much like the OP's situation, there's one particular girl who always made sure to exclude me from any group activities she organised. But, you know what? I don't like her and she doesn't like me, so I don't care - I wouldn't go to anything she's at anyway. I used to tolerate her for the sake of our mutual friends, but eventually just went "I'm too old to bother with this kind of crap, I don't like this girl, so I'm not going to be around her anymore."

Did she try to bully me? Absolutely. Did I feel bullied by her? Not in the least.

This.

I can definitely see the malice in this girl's intentions. I'd more than likely behave in the same way as Honey-ec if I were in that situation. Why would I want to go where I'm not wanted?

But I'd also make a point of clearly outlining the situation to everybody who's a mutual friend, letting them know the kind of person she really is. I'd also be quite happy to have a proper confrontation with her as she's obviously just a total bitch.

I'm just glad that, as a man, I've never had to encounter this type of behaviour. Girls (and women) can be really nasty!

lir6777 · 05-01-2012 12:00am

nkay1985 wrote: »

This.

I'm just glad that, as a man, I've never had to encounter this type of behaviour. Girls (and women) can be really nasty!

Sadly you are very right- it's like some women think they need to be bitchy to be popular/successful/happy.

stinkle · 05-01-2012 1:29am

lir6777 wrote: »

Thanks for that- yeah you may be right, there possibly is something she's envious of- which is sad, because I'm in no way the type to gloat or show off, so any reason for envy is in her head really.
Thanks for your opinion, it's nice to know that other people experience similar things and that it bothers them too- I am very sensitive and working on becoming more thick-skinned, so others' perspectives are very welcome.

The envy thing is usually in their heads!!! it's so weird! But that normally stems from their own insecurities about whatever, if only they'd leave them in their heads instead of getting into other peoples :pac: Nonetheless, in my short life I've encountered tons of people like that, and often wonder is it me or them that has the problem... Being sensitive isn't a licence for people to be horrible to you either. I'm also sensitive, but then wouldn't we all be as a result of experiencing stuff like that?

Kimia · 05-01-2012 1:59am

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think you have to allow yourself to be bullied.

lir6777 wrote: »

I 100% agree with you- nobody can bully you unless you let them.

I totally disagree. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is a pretty insensitive thing to say, although I should also say that this doesn't seem to be either of yours' intention.

lir6777 · 05-01-2012 8:26am

Kimia wrote: »

I totally disagree. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is a pretty insensitive thing to say, although I should also say that this doesn't seem to be either of yours' intention.

It's definitely not my intention as someone who has experienced bullying (besides this exclusion)- it's always been my feeling that if you assert yourself early on, it's much more difficult for a bully to pick on you (although, I admit, not impossible). I'm not, however, talking about extreme physical bullying- especially by more than one person- that's quite different from what we're talking about here.

Cianos · 05-01-2012 9:37am

It breaks my heart to see someone left out too. If I notice it I'd always ask the person along without even thinking of why they mightn't have been asked - the more the merrier! In the past, people I have invited have put me in awkward situations by their behavior, but I suppose I'm a soft touch and find it very hard to consciously leave them out!

lir6777 · 05-01-2012 10:22am

Cianos wrote: »

It breaks my heart to see someone left out too. If I notice it I'd always ask the person along without even thinking of why they mightn't have been asked - the more the merrier! In the past, people I have invited have put me in awkward situations by their behavior, but I suppose I'm a soft touch and find it very hard to consciously leave them out!

I'm the same- I hate seeing anyone hovering at the edge of a group or eating their lunch alone etc (unless it's because they want some peace!). I always make an effort to include everyone- it can be really hard for shy people to approach or get involved in a group so a friendly face can be a Godsend (I say this as someone who has experienced this relief in the past when I was very timid). It's a pity people have put you in awkward situations, but at least you did the best you could for them and it's up to the person then what they do with the help you offer! I'm sure most people are really grateful for your approach.

coconut5 · 05-01-2012 6:39pm

I actually think not wanting to rock the boat, being petrified to invite somebody along that's also in the gang because the main organizer didn't, is pathetic, and I see it all the time. People are mindless sheep, and so weak.

I don't get why people would want to exclude some of the gang. If you invite your friends out for an event, of course there are going to be some people you prefer to others, but that is just natural. But being excluded is so hurtful, and I empathise with you OP.

I don't understand the self-righteous attitude of, 'Life is short, I only want the people I like around'. Obviously, if someone is horrible to you, then of course you won't want them there, but if you think someone isn't 'cool' enough or is beneath you in some way, then I'd worry that it could all turn around on you someday.

lir6777 · 05-01-2012 7:59pm

coconut5 wrote: »

I actually think not wanting to rock the boat, being petrified to invite somebody along that's also in the gang because the main organizer didn't, is pathetic, and I see it all the time. People are mindless sheep, and so weak.

I don't get why people would want to exclude some of the gang. If you invite your friends out for an event, of course there are going to be some people you prefer to others, but that is just natural. But being excluded is so hurtful, and I empathise with you OP.

I don't understand the self-righteous attitude of, 'Life is short, I only want the people I like around'. Obviously, if someone is horrible to you, then of course you won't want them there, but if you think someone isn't 'cool' enough or is beneath you in some way, then I'd worry that it could all turn around on you someday.

I agree with you, I do believe that what goes around comes around and you never know when you'll be the one on the outside looking in! And I agree- while we all have 'favourites' within a large group, does inviting one person you're not mad about make any real difference to a group of 10-15 people?! I'd have to really have good cause to dislike someone to act like that- even though I really resent the girl doing this to me, I would never organise a group do and leave just her out- hopefully that makes me the bigger person...:p

LegacyUser · 05-01-2012 11:01pm

gcgirl wrote: »

They sound like the plastics off Mean Girls

In a way you have hit the nail on the head. In that they are anything but.
This is the assumption made all the time when the bare details are told about women who behave this way. Its easy to look at films like that and assume its bitches r' us. But, the painful truth is that is way, way more subtle than that.

The fact is, these are women we look up to.
I know this for a fact, as a couple of them are now on national television, and the rest of them are equally successful in their respective fields. They are fun to be around with, kind, (although I would say when it suits them), intelligent, successful and a couple of them now as I mentioned are household names. They are they kind of women that are associated with goal-making and ambitions, because of their professional and perceived domestic success.
There is nothing plastic about them, in comparison with the stereotypes in the film you mention, but, I reckon something in them may have hardened over the years to a substance resembling plastic.

Nonetheless, they have always operated in this sphere where its not as straightforward as 'you're in or you're out', yet it's a cumulative process by how many invites you have not been included on, or it might cause a 'difficulty' for someone to go out of their way to invite you to a lunch or a coffee.

The one thing I find in common with them all is that professional success is essential.
Next is kids and husbands. However, without money, career, nor relationship and without children, or with no desire to have children, there is little chance in featuring in these women's lives.

Ickle Magoo · 05-01-2012 11:25pm

^^ That sounds pretty bitchy to me as well tho...

I'd be in the "life's too short for crap friends" camp - and that includes people who are either too cowardly or don't care enough to do anything but go along with someone else who is bullying or trying to exclude me...

LegacyUser · 05-01-2012 11:48pm

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

^^ That sounds pretty bitchy to me as well tho...

I'd be in the "life's too short for crap friends" camp - and that includes people who are either too cowardly or don't care enough to do anything but go along with someone else who is bullying or trying to exclude me...

Its really interesting to read these kind of responses. Don't mean to take away from the OP, but it brought up a really interesting question of to what extent is exclusion ok, if ever at all, and is it bullying?

I honestly never thought of it in that way. Yet am astonished by some responses here. Have I been deluded. I took it as just the way things were if you were ignored or excluded from nights out, meet ups etc for months, even years at a time.

I just thought it meant that, oh god I can barely type the words, but there it is, I thought it meant I was not good enough, and it was my own fault, and I just had to get my 'shi' together. Whatever that means, but 10 yrs ago was the buzz word around women who had set a rung on the ladder of professional success-'they had got their shít together'. Actually it also meant they had sorted a mortgage and perhaps an husband to go with!

oh god, I can't believe some of the stuff I have allowed old school friends away with, just for the sake of so much time has past, its christmas, its so and so's birthday-don't rock the boat.

No, it wasn't okay we were best friends for 25yrs and she didn't invite me to her birthday night out. It wasn't okay that I was excluded for years from various events. I cannot believe I am just realising this now.

lir6777 · 06-01-2012 10:13am

Tzeital wrote: »

No, it wasn't okay we were best friends for 25yrs and she didn't invite me to her birthday night out. It wasn't okay that I was excluded for years from various events. I cannot believe I am just realising this now.

I was really interested to read your post here- while it definitely wasn't my intention to upset anyone with this post, I do hope that it has opened up a debate about the difference between the fair dynamics of a large group and downright exclusion.
I hope you aren't too upset, but I feel from your post that you sound assertive in saying that you haven't been treated fairly. Please don't allow this to shake your confidence- as many people have said in other posts, the person doing the excluding tends to have their own issues, so don't let their actions affect you (I'm trying to follow this myself). I hope that now you feel their behaviour is unfair, you won't stand for it without saying something.
For me, I have taken from all this that the girl in question may not want me around for a reason, and I've decided to tell myself it's because she feels envious of me in some way (as another poster suggested). I already confronted her on the issue and she wasn't big enough to acknowledge any fault; the same thing just happens again. I now don't like her much so am not going to waste my breath confronting her again- I am going to focus on arranging to meet up with people myself more, and every time I hear that she's failed to ask me to something, I'll tell myself (a little smugly!) she was worried I'd outshine her. (Please note: I do not believe I would outshine her!!But I am trying to get a confidence boost out of this instead of a confidence crisis!So I am deluding myself!:o)
It's a start for me anyway- I hope you can tell yourself something similar x

stinkle · 06-01-2012 11:29am

lir6777 wrote: »

I
I already confronted her on the issue and she wasn't big enough to acknowledge any fault; the same thing just happens again. I now don't like her much so am not going to waste my breath confronting her again- I am going to focus on arranging to meet up with people myself more, and every time I hear that she's failed to ask me to something, I'll tell myself (a little smugly!) she was worried I'd outshine her. (Please note: I do not believe I would outshine her!!But I am trying to get a confidence boost out of this instead of a confidence crisis!So I am deluding myself!:o)
It's a start for me anyway- I hope you can tell yourself something similar x

I'm doing this as well

I casually confronted one of the people about recent excluding of me the other day and it felt good seeing her squirm and try to dig up! I jsut said - "hey you never actually got back to me about that lunch when you said you would" and I got a stuttery "oh but I told you when it was", "Well I knew the day but I didnt know where or what time, and you said you'd send on the info and never did". Ok, maybe I could have enquired myself, but she was so cagey in the first place that well, I wanted to see would she bother, and I also didnt want to seem clingy...

re:outshining...I believe there's a lot to that. Ask yourself: would this person have me around if things were going badly in my life? I dont mean would they go out of their way to support you, but would they be happier to have you around if it meant they could relish in your bad luck? e.g. if you lose your job, she might suddenly LOVE blabbing on about her job; or maybe if you got dumped would she magically develop a new-found closeness with you that involves going on about how fab her love life is?

Of late, the person/people excluding me at the mo might resent me moving on in work, and when I got engaged recently they were "delighted" but had a few digs about things like the ring, and my (very basic at this stage!) wedding plans. If I go on a holiday/do something interesting on a weekend that doesnt involve sitting in a bar with a moany face on me its never remarked on. Now its not like I was going around bragging about job/wedding/etc, I'm really not that kind of person. But if I was to get dumped or fired or whatever, well that'd be super interesting!! It's funny when you write all this stuff down :pac:

LegacyUser · 06-01-2012 11:54am

I met up with a friend of mine last night. We meet up every couple of months or so. She is not a bully but sometimes her behaviour can make me feel like crap.

For instance if I make an effort with my appearance sometimes she'll make a snide comment or else laugh as in "look at you in your skinny jeans!"

She has a tough life. She's divorced, raising three kids on her own. There always seems to be someone in her family dying or suffering with some illness. She has to run around after her alcoholic father. I really feel for her. But I'm on her side.

Last night she inferred I was 40. I'm only 36. The last time I was talking to her, she made the same mistake. It might seem minor to most people but no one wants to feel older than they are. (most people I know say I look years younger)

Sometimes she will tell me I'm wearing something nice but a lot of the time, she comes across as bitter. It's really hurtful.
She makes jokes about why I got a pet, asking me why did I bother getting one. The reason I got one is because I'm on my own and would love to have children. She thought this was funny.

Most of the time she is fine and I think when life is tough for her, she doesn't see that it can be tough for other people. It's just hard sometimes when she brings me down.

lir6777 · 06-01-2012 12:27pm

Stinkle- firstly- congratulations on your job and engagement!:)
Secondly- I am so delighted to hear someone express similar experiences. I have seen my own lady squirm like the one you mention- in my case, she refused to take my calls for a week before fobbing me off with a 'it was a misunderstanding'. These types of girls aren't used to being confronted, so it felt great at the time that it unsettled her a bit!:p
I've let this bother me for years and am really glad to see that other people come across the same behaviours from 'friends'. I see now that this girl has some deep insecurities (as do I), but is handling them by trying to project them onto others (i.e. me!). Not gonna happen. I'm going to try not to let it bother me, remind myself I wouldn't want to spend time with her, and just merrily state to my other friends why I wasn't at x party or lunch- 'oh I wasn't told about it!' with a smile. I won't be embarrassed or sad, I will state the truth and let them eventually see that it's not fair but I'm not going to waste energy on it.
I really hope some others got as much from this thread as I have- I feel much more positive about the whole thing- a great start for the new year

lir6777 · 06-01-2012 1:17pm

Wonkabar wrote: »

I met up with a friend of mine last night. We meet up every couple of months or so. She is not a bully but sometimes her behaviour can make me feel like crap.

She makes jokes about why I got a pet, asking me why did I bother getting one. The reason I got one is because I'm on my own and would love to have children. She thought this was funny.

Most of the time she is fine and I think when life is tough for her, she doesn't see that it can be tough for other people. It's just hard sometimes when she brings me down.

That's really tough- she sounds like she's having a tough time of things, but she should recognise that you're her friend and a good one. A lot of people (sadly) are only there for the good times, so I'm sure she must realise how special proper loyalty is. It seems to me that maybe she just can't see past her own troubles at the moment, to see that you have your own too. It sounds like she envies your life a bit- she maybe sees you as having freedom and financial comfort where she mightn't? Maybe she can't see the flipside of that- that you would like to have kids etc.
In my experience, some people who have fairly regular bouts of bad times (like you say she has had) can become consumed by them. Even if they recognise that others have problems, they probably don't seem anywhere near as bad as all the problems she has/has had. Of course that's not the case-everyone's troubles are their own and a friend should be there regardless. I wonder would she realise your side of things if you sat her down and told her gently that you're happy to be there for her but that you value her friendship and would love to be able to turn to her when you need to as well? This might avoid being confrontational and emphasise that you're looking to maintain a real friendship with her- it might also make her feel good to hear it, so there could be benefits on both sides?
Whatever the case, well done on being a true friend through all that- I hope you get it back

Chinafoot · 06-01-2012 7:48pm

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think you have to allow yourself to be bullied.

I think this is very, very easy to say but it's not always the case that people can just let it roll off them like water off a duck's back. Your post basically suggests that those who are bullied are weak or too sensitive.

Its easy for us to sit here, as grown women, and say that we're far too confident and strong and adult to let people like that get to us. We're far too secure in ourselves to let someone make us feel like crap or make us feel isolated from the rest of our friends. Sure, that may be true for certain scenarios but it does not apply to bullying in every situation. Yeah the OP could take the approach of "f*ck her. I'm not going to bother with her at all. Wouldn't want to hang out with her anyway." But that is easier said than done when you are dealing with a group of close friends. This girl is trying to force her out and the OP is allowed to be upset over that. It doesn't make her a weak person.

I'm a very confident, strong, independent person and I can tell you now that when I had that situation in work I was reduced to tears on more than one occasion. I even considered looking for work elsewhere, thats how horrible things were. Does that make me a weak person? I don't think so.

The bullying that goes on among teenage girls, particularly within a group, can be brutal. The girl being bullied isn't weak nor is she too sensitive. She's a person with feelings who is being made to feel like utter cack by the actions of someone else. When you're facing that it is extremely hard to just say let it roll off you. Expecting a teenage girl to not "let" herself be bullied is very unfair.

lir6777 · 06-01-2012 9:04pm

Chinafoot wrote: »

Its easy for us to sit here, as grown women, and say that we're far too confident and strong and adult to let people like that get to us. We're far too secure in ourselves to let someone make us feel like crap or make us feel isolated from the rest of our friends. Sure, that may be true for certain scenarios but it does not apply to bullying in every situation. Yeah the OP could take the approach of "f*ck her. I'm not going to bother with her at all. Wouldn't want to hang out with her anyway." But that is easier said than done when you are dealing with a group of close friends. This girl is trying to force her out and the OP is allowed to be upset over that. It doesn't make her a weak person.

I'm a very confident, strong, independent person and I can tell you now that when I had that situation in work I was reduced to tears on more than one occasion. I even considered looking for work elsewhere, thats how horrible things were. Does that make me a weak person? I don't think so.

I think the real difficulty with the type of bullying we're talking about here is that it's so subtle, it's hard for others to see, so you feel at times like you're imagining it (well I do!). And when you confront the person, they can deny it or fob it off very easily. And others don't want to get involved if they think it might be in your imagination either.Very frustrating!
Not trying to compare its seriousness at all at all, but this is so hard to tackle in my own experience.

needaname · 06-01-2012 11:55pm

Have also experienced this big time and feel its only gettin worse and more malicious as i get older (mid 20's now).

But for the people who cant understand why exclusion is considered bullying, in my case its when you are deliberately not invited somewhere by a particular person (or worse, if plans have been made that you were invited to, only for this person to tell you its been cancelled and you miss it) and then they personally call you the next day to tell you what a great event you missed! Its almost like they want you to know that you were deliberately excluded.

lir6777 · 07-01-2012 12:50am

needaname wrote: »

Have also experienced this big time and feel its only gettin worse and more malicious as i get older (mid 20's now).

But for the people who cant understand why exclusion is considered bullying, in my case its when you are deliberately not invited somewhere by a particular person (or worse, if plans have been made that you were invited to, only for this person to tell you its been cancelled and you miss it) and then they personally call you the next day to tell you what a great event you missed! Its almost like they want you to know that you were deliberately excluded.

Oh wow- that's particularly nasty! To ring you the next day bragging about the great night- that is so bitchy!:mad:

Female bullies-why do so many women have to make others feel like crap?!

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