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Mountbatten wanted United Ireland

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Comments

  • #182
    Pyro202
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Pyro202


    this has nothing to do with politics, you clearly dont know what you're talking about.


  • #183
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Pyro202 wrote: »
    this has nothing to do with politics, you clearly dont know what you're talking about.

    :confused::confused:


  • #184
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Does this thread have any relation to the originial post any more? If not I'm going to lock it. you all have until I am back online tomorrow to figure out what you really want to talk about instead of the usual pointless circular stuff. Mod.


  • #185
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Actually I think blaming the labour government of the time on the mess in India would be more appropriate.

    Not as handy though if you are looking for an excuse for cold blooded murder.

    FrattonFred further research (intended to rebut you) proved you right. Radcliffe who drew the partition line had never visited India and had almost nothing to do with Mountbatten when he was there.

    The quote in my post above is from his Radcliffe's assistant; had a motive to blame Mountbatten.

    Therefore Mountbatten may have been incompetent to fulfill a very difficult role BUT this is not his fault as the Viceroy of India had to be a top aristocrat (or at any rate had always been a top aristocrat) and therefore there is no reason to believe that he was any worse than anyone else.

    Mountbatten it seems was a man of mediocre abilities called on to do a very difficult job. Gandhi, Nehru and Jinnah couldn't prevent the violence of 1947 it is stupid to blame Mountbatten.

    So Mountbatten's death can't be justified with reference to his being a war criminal because he wasn't (even if the British Imperial project was criminal Mountbatten was there to close it down).

    Can it be justified because his cousin decorated the leader of the troops on Bloody Sunday? How?

    Warrenpoint and Mountbatten's death are the two poles of IRA action 'guerilla war' versus 'Schrecklichkeit'. In the 1980s Schrecklichkeit dominated IRA actions. Even so called military targets like the Royal Marine band and the Horse Guards parade were intended to sow fear.

    Mountbatten's murder/assassination embittered the British, lost Ireland a potentially useful friend, contributed to the marginalisation of Republicanism and looked to Northern Protestants as though Any Brit Will Do.

    It certainly seems hard to justify even for those of us who are keen to justify it.


  • #186
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    they got their man, they got his wife and they got two young children as well. These three bystanders were not unfortunate casualties, the scum bag who did it knew they were on the boat with Lord Mountbatten and did not care, they were executed in cold blood along with an old man.

    explain to me what, in the ****ed up world that is Northern Ireland politics, justifies that.

    Explain to me how the murder of three more innocent people helps the families of those murdered on bloody sunday?
    The world that is Northern Ireland politics is ****ed up because britain, the cancer of humanity, designed that way and ofcourse that's something the brits are world beaters at, creating **** ups - the Middle East, India etc.

    I doubt if any of the families of those murdered on Bloody Sunday had as much concern for Mr. Mountbatten or the 19 Para scumbags as he had for the victims of Bloody Sunday.

    As for Mr Mountbatten allegedly wanting a United Ireland, I'm very skeptical about that. I reckon as a british establishment figure he was just testing the waters in his conversation with the ambassador.


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  • #187
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    In fairness nobody no matter his sins deserves to die like that.

    But Mountbatten as a senior figure of the British war machine in WW2 certainly ordered the bombing of civilian targets with the resulting deaths of far more civilians than died with Mountbatten.

    It was a murder but Mountbatten was no angel himself. What goes around comes around unfortunately for him.


  • #188
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Hugo Drax wrote: »
    In fairness nobody no matter his sins deserves to die like that.

    But Mountbatten as a senior figure of the British war machine in WW2 certainly ordered the bombing of civilian targets with the resulting deaths of far more civilians than died with Mountbatten.

    It was a murder but Mountbatten was no angel himself. What goes around comes around unfortunately for him.

    i think you over estimate his position. He was a military chief, but not that senior. Claiming that he deserved to die because he may have ordered bombings that may have killed civilians is somewhat tenuous at best.


  • #189
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    i think you over estimate his position. He was a military chief, but not that senior. Claiming that he deserved to die because he may have ordered bombings that may have killed civilians is somewhat tenuous at best.

    Hmm, perhaps you could read my post, nowhere did I say he deserved to die. Do you always totally misrepresent other's posts? I specifically said nobody deserves to die like that.

    I did say however that as a former senior English military figure (and member of the English royal family) he could have reasonably assumed himself to be a target in Ireland given the political climate of the time and his high profile. His security advisers were seriously derelict.

    You state he wasn't senior in the English army??? Obviously you don't know what you're talking about:

    "In October 1943, Churchill appointed Mountbatten the Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia Command. "

    Supreme Allied Commander - hardly "not that senior".

    As Supreme Allied Commander Mountbatten undoubtedly did preside over operations that took the lives of innocent civilians.

    So he was hardly a harmless old codger, he had a history himself.

    I don't condone his murder, but it's hardly the assassination of Martin Luther King or Gandhi is it.

    I think the callous murder of those on the boat with him is the inexcusable part, they were totally innocent, you could make the case that Mountbatten by his profile could be expected to be a target of republican paramilitaries. But what did the poor boat boy and his relatives do?


  • #190
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Hugo Drax wrote: »
    Hmm, perhaps you could read my post, nowhere did I say he deserved to die. Do you always totally misrepresent other's posts? I specifically said nobody deserves to die like that.

    I did say however that as a former senior English military figure (and member of the English royal family) he could have reasonably assumed himself to be a target in Ireland given the political climate of the time and his high profile. His security advisers were seriously derelict.

    You state he wasn't senior in the English army??? Obviously you don't know what you're talking about:

    "In October 1943, Churchill appointed Mountbatten the Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia Command. "

    Supreme Allied Commander - hardly "not that senior".

    As Supreme Allied Commander Mountbatten undoubtedly did preside over operations that took the lives of innocent civilians.

    So he was hardly a harmless old codger, he had a history himself.

    I don't condone his murder, but it's hardly the assassination of Martin Luther King or Gandhi is it.

    I think the callous murder of those on the boat with him is the inexcusable part, they were totally innocent, you could make the case that Mountbatten by his profile could be expected to be a target of republican paramilitaries. But what did the poor boat boy and his relatives do?

    I didn't realise that he was working for the Japanese.


  • #191
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    ??I don't understand your post??


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  • #192
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Hugo Drax wrote: »
    ??I don't understand your post??

    No doubt it will sink in eventually.


  • #193
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Hugo Drax wrote: »
    ??I don't understand your post??
    I don't either but I think he's trying to imply that Mountbatten was not invovled in operations that killed innocent lives. You see the goodie brits would never do such a thing, only the baddie Japs would do it.


  • #194
    Noah Future Writer
    Posts: 0 ✭ Noah Future Writer


    McArmalite wrote: »
    I don't either but I think he's trying to imply that Mountbatten was not invovled in operations that killed innocent lives. You see the goodie brits would never do such a thing, only the baddie Japs would do it.

    The same could be said for those who planted the bomb on that boat that killed two children as well.


  • #195
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Noah Future Writer wrote: »
    The same could be said for those who planted the bomb on that boat that killed two children as well.
    On post #167 I stated " BTW, the Mountbatten operation should not have been carried out due to the children present. I have always said it was wrong - even to Republicans who have done time in prison etc. It would have been much more efficent to drive up alongside him and finish him with a bullet, but the Provos wanted the "spectacular" of a huge bomb killing him. I have no sympathy for Mr Mounbatten or his cousin Mrs Windsor who awarded the CO of the Paras in Derry a CBE. Reap what you sow "

    ( BTW, nice to see you had to pull your post directed at me earlier today :D )


  • #196
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Noah Future Writer wrote: »
    It had the desired effect, as you had to tone down the rant! ;)
    Didn't tone anything down pal :D Appartently A Donegal councillor has proposed putting up a statue to the victims at Mullaghmore. I can see no harm in it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8224607.stm


  • #197
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Please end the off topic stuff and personal stuff or the thread will be locked and if necessary warnings given. Its not anyone's place to comment on deleted messages or moderating decisions. Mod.


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