Converting an ambulance

generalmental · 01-08-2020 1:29pm #1

Hi all any help would be appreciated.

My wife has her own beauty salon in the country, she has been getting a lot of grief from her landlord and is thinking of giving up her place and buying a discontinued ambulance and using it as a mobile beauty salon.

The reason for the ambulance is that its already wired up for electricity in the back and she has come up with a creative way of using the space.

People literally come from all over the country to use her salon, so now she wants to be able to go to her regulars and possibly pick up some new clients who wouldn't have been able to or into the travel previously.

What we dont know is can it be done. Will the insurance company cover her, will just having the ambulance insured be enough or will she need public liability etc.

Seen as though she is going to be in different parts of the country at different times will she need to pay rates.

Anything else that you see as a barrier can you please mention. I think it's a good idea but I think she may need to use a van and not an ambulance.

Thanks for reading.

oceanman · 01-08-2020 1:33pm

generalmental wrote: »

Hi all any help would be appreciated.

My wife has her own beauty salon in the country, she has been getting a lot of grief from her landlord and is thinking of giving up her place and buying a discontinued ambulance and using it as a mobile beauty salon.

The reason for the ambulance is that its already wired up for electricity in the back and she has come up with a creative way of using the space.

People literally come from all over the country to use her salon, so now she wants to be able to go to her regulars and possibly pick up some new clients who wouldn't have been able to or into the travel previously.

What we dont know is can it be done. Will the insurance company cover her, will just having the ambulance insured be enough or will she need public liability etc.

Seen as though she is going to be in different parts of the country at different times will she need to pay rates.

Anything else that you see as a barrier can you please mention. I think it's a good idea but I think she may need to use a van and not an ambulance.

Thanks for reading.

i would imagine she would need public liability anyway.

Padre_Pio · 01-08-2020 1:46pm

Interesting.

Few things though:
What license do you need for an ambulance? I'd imagine its a Cat C, so she'd need the lessons and test. Ambulances are wide beasts of things. I'd be looking at a high roof transit bus, with the windows. It's a Cat B, and narrow enough so it's easier to drive and manoeuvre around a clients estate or driveway.
That said, I converted a high transit into a camper and anyone over 6 foot would be stooping inside.

Power is a the main issue. You'd need to plug in to mains, or have a massive battery and inverter. Straighteners, hairdryers and the like are high wattage and they'd be used for hours of the day. Even keeping it warm on a cold day.

You would need to put some legs on it to stop it rocking when people are in the back and some stairs for elderly.
From a practical side I think it's doable so long as you solve the power issue. An camper extension lead into the clients house might be a short term solution.

generalmental · 01-08-2020 2:34pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Interesting.

Few things though:
What license do you need for an ambulance? I'd imagine its a Cat C, so she'd need the lessons and test. Ambulances are wide beasts of things. I'd be looking at a high roof transit bus, with the windows. It's a Cat B, and narrow enough so it's easier to drive and manoeuvre around a clients estate or driveway.
That said, I converted a high transit into a camper and anyone over 6 foot would be stooping inside.

Power is a the main issue. You'd need to plug in to mains, or have a massive battery and inverter. Straighteners, hairdryers and the like are high wattage and they'd be used for hours of the day. Even keeping it warm on a cold day.

You would need to put some legs on it to stop it rocking when people are in the back and some stairs for elderly.
From a practical side I think it's doable so long as you solve the power issue. An camper extension lead into the clients house might be a short term solution.

I didn't know about the licence if I'm being honest.
Regards to the power issue, she seems to be thinking about the ambulance as it already has the power to run the machines in the back that it would already have a big battery and possibly an inverter. She wants to keep the costs down and is concerned that the wiring and bigger battery and inverter would cost a lot.

It still has a ramp on the ambulance, she would plan on keeping it as a couple of her clients have mobility problems and even wheelchairs.

She also wants to respray it.

Mrs OBumble · 01-08-2020 2:49pm

Do some market research among the clients: would they really want a big mobile hairdresser rolling into their neighbourhood for all the world to see? What would the neighbours think?

generalmental · 01-08-2020 3:10pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do some market research among the clients: would they really want a big mobile hairdresser rolling into their neighbourhood for all the world to see? What would the neighbours think?

Very good point. I know she has mentioned it to a few of them and they all were supportive.

RurtBeynolds · 01-08-2020 3:16pm

Why can't she just go to her client's homes and cut their hair indoors? I'm not seeing why there's a need for a converted van?

generalmental · 01-08-2020 3:18pm

RurtBeynolds wrote: »

Why can't she just go to her client's homes and cut their hair indoors? I'm not seeing why there's a need for a converted van?

She is a beautician. Not solely a hairdresser, she offers a wide range of services from massage to hair cutting.

Dial Hard · 01-08-2020 3:20pm

generalmental wrote: »

Very good point. I know she has mentioned it to a few of them and they all were supportive.

Being supportive in the abstract is very different to actually climbing into the back of a converted ambulance that's just rocked up to your house.

I honestly think she'd be better off just finding alternative premises.

GG66 · 01-08-2020 3:33pm

Doubt the battery and inverter is enough. Ambulances are on the move a lot. I expect that the leisure battery is being charged off the main battery most of the time. Your wife will be stationary for longer periods. Worth checking out estimated power usage. You ca add solar PV.

Campervan / motorhome forum is a good place to ask

Padre_Pio · 01-08-2020 4:35pm

generalmental wrote: »

I didn't know about the licence if I'm being honest.
Regards to the power issue, she seems to be thinking about the ambulance as it already has the power to run the machines in the back that it would already have a big battery and possibly an inverter. She wants to keep the costs down and is concerned that the wiring and bigger battery and inverter would cost a lot.

I don't think you're right there. Ambulances are always running, alternator is probably flat out. Their equipment is designed to be portable and battery powered.
Your use case is different, your wife could be parked up for hours, I'm thinking a bridal party or something.

You need to look at the power requirements as it could really increase your investment. A hairdryer could be 2kW.
Curlers, straighteners, lights, heater and all the other stuff is way more than most camper type systems are designed for.

Solar PV is no good either, no reliability.
I'd say mains is your only choice unless a bespoke system. Also, running a mobile salon from a single extension cord could be dodgy too.

My recommendation is to look at the power requirements.

oceanman · 01-08-2020 4:50pm

maybe a small silent running generator might solve the power problem?

generalmental · 01-08-2020 5:04pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Being supportive in the abstract is very different to actually climbing into the back of a converted ambulance that's just rocked up to your house.

I honestly think she'd be better off just finding alternative premises.

That may happen, she may even stay, just exploring the possibility.

generalmental · 01-08-2020 5:09pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I don't think you're right there. Ambulances are always running, alternator is probably flat out. Their equipment is designed to be portable and battery powered.
Your use case is different, your wife could be parked up for hours, I'm thinking a bridal party or something.

You need to look at the power requirements as it could really increase your investment. A hairdryer could be 2kW.
Curlers, straighteners, lights, heater and all the other stuff is way more than most camper type systems are designed for.

Solar PV is no good either, no reliability.
I'd say mains is your only choice unless a bespoke system. Also, running a mobile salon from a single extension cord could be dodgy too.

My recommendation is to look at the power requirements.

I was thinking of the generator like oceanman said. This is one of the reasons why I started this thread.

Padre_Pio · 01-08-2020 6:48pm

generalmental wrote: »

I was thinking of the generator like oceanman said. This is one of the reasons why I started this thread.

Definitely worth a look, but you'd still need to work out your power requirements.

Quiet generators exist and I've seen some cool examples where they are slung under the van chassis, but again, you're running into power limits and when they call it quiet, it's in comparison to a standard generator, it could still be as loud as a hoover.

Say you want to run a 2kW hairdryer, plus a 1kW of all the other things. 3kW in total. You can't run a genny at max draw for more than 30 mins, so you'd need a 4kW generator.

Take this for instance: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YQ3W6HR/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_DLAjFbBXP8JP0

This is probably too big to go under the van, but maybe you can build a box to hang it off the back?
Or maybe put it in a box inside with soundproofing and see if you can pipe exhaust and air through the floor of the ambulance?

ironclaw · 01-08-2020 8:27pm

As others have said, speaking as an electronic engineer, solve the power issue first. And I don't mean estimate or take a guess, I mean go and talk to someone who's already done it professionally. Don't take a single step further until you have that solved. As even if you could get a generator big and quiet enough, the existing power system may not support the loads you would be asking it to and you may need to rewire it. The cost could be substantial and I doubt you want to go through a complete set up each and every time you have a client.

I've worked on ambulances and they have no where near the power draw required for what you want to achieve. Most of the systems are battery powered first and the simply charge off the alternator, there is no heavy load for sustained periods of time as you will require here.

generalmental · 02-08-2020 8:23am

ironclaw wrote: »

As others have said, speaking as an electronic engineer, solve the power issue first. And I don't mean estimate or take a guess, I mean go and talk to someone who's already done it professionally. Don't take a single step further until you have that solved. As even if you could get a generator big and quiet enough, the existing power system may not support the loads you would be asking it to and you may need to rewire it. The cost could be substantial and I doubt you want to go through a complete set up each and every time you have a client.

I've worked on ambulances and they have no where near the power draw required for what you want to achieve. Most of the systems are battery powered first and the simply charge off the alternator, there is no heavy load for sustained periods of time as you will require here.

Thank you. I honestly wouldn't know where to start. Can you make any recommendations of what I should be looking for.

listermint · 02-08-2020 8:40am

She'd be losing time and money between appointments travelling around the place.

ironclaw · 03-08-2020 8:49pm

generalmental wrote: »

Thank you. I honestly wouldn't know where to start. Can you make any recommendations of what I should be looking for.

You'd want to seek out the camper van community I'd say, would be a good place to start and ask for the best electrical company you can find. Assuming someone had fitted an electric shower, it would be a good start on the level of wiring and load. But keep in mind that these types of loads are generally for when you are parked up and connected to mains, not on the road etc.

listermint wrote: »

She'd be losing time and money between appointments travelling around the place.

The baked in cost per appointment would need to be pretty high alright. It would only work if you had a group or were doing community outreach I'd say.

banie01 · 03-08-2020 8:53pm

I don't know much about the vagaries of converting the Ambulance.
But!
The naming possibilities are bloody brilliant!
Beauty 911, Drop Dead Gorgeous, Hair Attack, Blue light specials!

And loads more, and undoubtedly loads better too

Gloomtastic! · 03-08-2020 9:16pm

I'm still trying to decide if this is a brilliant idea or an awful idea.

It's a great marketing idea but if I saw you parked outside my neighbour's house I'd be thinking, 'Jazzus, your one needs the emergency services to try and fix her!'. :rolleyes:

It just takes one comment and you'll never be asked round again!

generalmental · 09-08-2020 1:03pm

ironclaw wrote: »

You'd want to seek out the camper van community I'd say, would be a good place to start and ask for the best electrical company you can find. Assuming someone had fitted an electric shower, it would be a good start on the level of wiring and load. But keep in mind that these types of loads are generally for when you are parked up and connected to mains, not on the road etc.

The baked in cost per appointment would need to be pretty high alright. It would only work if you had a group or were doing community outreach I'd say.

The plan is to try and arrange the appointments around each other. Lots of her clientèle come from Dublin so she will be trying to do 3 days per week in Dublin and arrange them on proximity to each other.
We know that can't happen all the time, but after doing the numbers and with no rent charge its definitely worth a go.

generalmental · 09-08-2020 1:05pm

banie01 wrote: »

I don't know much about the vagaries of converting the Ambulance.
But!
The naming possibilities are bloody brilliant!
Beauty 911, Drop Dead Gorgeous, Hair Attack, Blue light specials!

And loads more, and undoubtedly loads better too

All good, but we definitely wont be using any names with "dead" in it. Doesn't seem right.

generalmental · 09-08-2020 1:08pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I'm still trying to decide if this is a brilliant idea or an awful idea.

It's a great marketing idea but if I saw you parked outside my neighbour's house I'd be thinking, 'Jazzus, your one needs the emergency services to try and fix her!'. :rolleyes:

It just takes one comment and you'll never be asked round again!

There will be a respray on the ambulance, I would hate it if someone is ill and waiting for an ambulance to see hers coming and think its the one that they need.

jetfiremuck · 09-08-2020 1:10pm

My advice.....Go for it. Have her contact a hair company or supplier and have a sponsored wrap done on the ambulance. Great advertising and will boost your business. You can use those quiet run honda generators for power backup to an inverter set up. Youll need instant hot water as well as water and gray water holding tanks. Led lights etc and youre all set. Best time to start a business is now. Good luck

ironclaw · 11-08-2020 5:18pm

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Have her contact a hair company or supplier and have a sponsored wrap done on the ambulance. Great advertising and will boost your business.

You might get a local business but no major supplier or brand will touch you unless you are rolling around in a very new, very modern vehicle

You can use those quiet run honda generators for power backup to an inverter set up.

With the concurrent and sustained loads involved, you can't use consumer grade equipment. This needs prior planning. If you were just cutting hair, no dry or washing, then you might get away with it. But for your average salon grade wash and cut, no, not even close.

Youll need instant hot water as well as water and gray water holding tanks. Led lights etc and youre all set.

Heating water will alone need a very large generator unless you want to go the gas route, and that's even more expensive.

Overall, this is extremely poor advice and not even remotely realistic or grounded in fact.

Padre_Pio · 11-08-2020 8:58pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Heating water will alone need a very large generator unless you want to go the gas route, and that's even more expensive.

Overall, this is extremely poor advice and not even remotely realistic or grounded in fact.

This is an interesting point. Say it takes 50 litres to wash hair and you have 5 customers. That's 250 litres you need to carry around and heat, maybe 150 litres of hot water and 100 of cold. Plus extra to wash up, clean tools and all the other uses for water in a salon, so maybe 300-350. That's 350kg. A lot of weight to put in a van. PLUS the additional grey water storage space needed, so 700 litres of space needed.

OP, my advice would be to ask your wife to note every time she uses the utilities.
People may be willing to compromise on "salon quality" slightly for the convenience of having a stylist visit their house, but I don't think they'll compromise too much. It might be too much to fit an entire salon into a van.

seannash · 11-08-2020 9:08pm

I gotta say its a bad idea. People go for treatments to sometimes relax and i just dont see that happening in the back of a van.
She had the right idea doing it in her home,saves her paying rent on a premises and petrol, insurance and time.
It simply wont be the same experience for her clients. Image the young lads who will bang on the ambulance when your inside plucking someones eyebrows or injecting botox.

seandurcan1966 · 26-08-2020 3:36pm

No expert at all on power but if you were to run the equipment at 110V, obviously requires a different type of inverter and all new equipment to run at 110V. Would that help in any way?

Padre_Pio · 26-08-2020 4:51pm

seandurcan1966 wrote: »

No expert at all on power but if you were to run the equipment at 110V, obviously requires a different type of inverter and all new equipment to run at 110V. Would that help in any way?

Twice as bad.

Now if you could find a 400V hairdryer, we'd be in business!

Converting an ambulance

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