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Thinking of joining Betfair..

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Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To be fair you can make decent returns from laying horses with zero stable info. You just need to have enough experience to spot enough underpriced horses, there are oodles of them running every week.

    Most profitable betfair accounts are traders imo, not my cup of tea but each to their own.


  • #33
    Gautama
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Gautama


    I intended to give my tuppence worth a while back, but got waylaid (no pun intended). This is my opinion of BetFair's horse racing market.

    I do a bit of laying on BetFair, to varying degrees of success. It's handy to have the option of a lay rather than just a back. You've got numerous horses running in your favour rather than just one.

    It adds "a little interest" when you're watching a race that you don't know much about, e.g. a maiden in Mallow. It's easier lay a favourite for a few quid rather than pick a winner.
    Same goes for Cheltenham. Some people have punts on every race. Personally I'd be weak enough, knowledge wise, in the handicaps. I'd rather lay a horse towards the head of the market rather than try to pick a winner.
    I'll put it another way, it's an easier "fun bet".
    Granted, if it is for fun, you don't roar home.

    I don't see any value in backing Simonsig or Hurricane Fly in Cheltenham. If I can't pick a winner in the next couple of weeks, I'll be laying these instead. Not, I might add, because they're short priced favourites. I don't think Simonsig has been tested over fences and when he's under pressure, as was the case when Fingal Bay beat him over hurdles, he is beatable.
    As for the Fly, he's in no better a position right now than he was this time last year. And look how that panned out.

    I've found BetFair disappointing for backing. I'd heard so much about how much better the prices are, but for the most part it's marginal at the head of the market. And then there is the commission, which must be factored in (or out!).
    Some bookies guarantee the prices, so if your selection drifts, you get the bigger prices; also worth considering.
    The place market is very poor; you're better off staying with the bookies.

    However, if you're going for a longshot, you will get a better price.

    I've done some backing today, eight horses. Only two of these on BetFair. No laying.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gautama wrote: »
    ........... but for the most part it's marginal at the head of the market. And then there is the commission, which must be factored in (or out!).................


    Indeed, I backed 50 relative shorties for virtual money (€20 a selection) in a log some time back, (well I backed 58 but I wrote a speel after 50 :) )

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79368996&postcount=92

    Considering you get GP off the bookies you're probably better off with them, those figures are net of commission so indicative of reality :)

    In fairness though it does show how you can have a chance laying on Betfair if you know you're beans (or lay a certain number of horses randomly every day :pac: ).


  • #35
    beya2009
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭beya2009


    Hey guys I read the sticky on betfair exchange by wb but that thread is closed. I want to find out more about the backing side on the exchange. I understand the lay side fine. I'm just a bit confused at how the backing side works in terms of what you can stake and all.


  • #36
    longshotvalue
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭longshotvalue


    beya2009 wrote: »
    Hey guys I read the sticky on betfair exchange by wb but that thread is closed. I want to find out more about the backing side on the exchange. I understand the lay side fine. I'm just a bit confused at how the backing side works in terms of what you can stake and all.

    If you a profitable punter you'll get as much as you like on (within Reason) on horse near the top of the market. (unlike bookies who will stop your account). Pricewise near the top of the market there isnt much difference in price between betfair and bookies , but longhots are a much better price..


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  • #37
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    bear in mind if you are successful, you could get completely nailed by betfairs premium charge.

    I was involved with a company that developed an very intricate program to recognise prices. Had a full time staff of 6 people. We had to sell the whole thing as we were getting nailed with their betfair charge of 60% of the profits. Total joke, but did very well out of it whilst it lasted.


  • #38
    beya2009
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭beya2009


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    bear in mind if you are successful, you could get completely nailed by betfairs premium charge.

    I was involved with a company that developed an very intricate program to recognise prices. Had a full time staff of 6 people. We had to sell the whole thing as we were getting nailed with their betfair charge of 60% of the profits. Total joke, but did very well out of it whilst it lasted.

    Wow that's good going! You must have been making a killing. I don't think I will be having that problem on Betfair with their premium charges if this is what is required to be docked 60% lol


    Higher rates of Premium Charge will apply to the very small number of customers (less than 0.1%) that satisfy the following conditions over the lifetime of their account:
    Lifetime net profits*** exceed £250,000
    Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
    Bet in more than 1,000 markets
    The Premium Charge rate applied to each customer that satisfies these conditions is dependent on their lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio. The exact rate will be determined by the following table:
    Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio< 5%
    Applicable Premium Charge Rate 60%
    5% – 10%
    Applicable Premium Charge Rate 50%
    10%+
    Applicable Premium Charge Rate 40%


    I think for other profitable punters on betfair the premium charge is around 20% I heard. It appears betfair got very greedy lol



    I have heard Smarkets only has 2% commissions and Betdaq has 3% commission so they must be great options too.


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