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Rex Krueger - #thejoinersbench Irish timber equivalents

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  • 03-04-2020 10:42am
    #1
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Hi folks,

    Getting back into woodworking for the first time since 1995 1st year Mr. Donoghue's class!

    I've been inspired to give it a go by Rex Krueger's Woodworking for Humans series on YouTube and I'd like to start with the Joiner's Bench.

    (failed to add a link - should be easily searchable on YouTube)

    The problem I have is I'm not familiar with Irish equivalents for US plans.

    1. Would Douglas Fir be similar to red deal?
    2. Would anyone have a list of the common dimensions for planed timber in Irish hardware shops? I've never heard of 4x4" here (except as treated fence posts etc) for example.


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    #2
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,293 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if you're planning on making a bench (which i've been 'planning' for at least two years now), check out the paul sellers bench also - i've seen other youtube woodworkers refer to their benches as paul sellers benches.


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    #3
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    if you're planning on making a bench (which i've been 'planning' for at least two years now), check out the paul sellers bench also - i've seen other youtube woodworkers refer to their benches as paul sellers benches.

    I think I'll end up making a hodgepodge of both. Paul Sellers' technique is so effortless it'd sicken ya. He's deadly


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    #4
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    bwbg78 wrote: »
    I've been inspired to give it a go by Rex Krueger's Woodworking for Humans series on YouTube and I'd like to start with the Joiner's Bench.

    I watched that build of Rex's a couple of weeks back, a really interesting bench and simple too.

    Steve Ramsay has a couple of bench designs that sit between or even a bit lower than the one Rex does and Paul Seller's bench (in terms of skill required and time) that Magic has referenced. Here's just one of Steve's: https://woodworkingformeremortals.com/workbench-mere-mortals/. His "BMW" (Basic Mobile Workbench) is actually better and really quick to make - easily achievable in one weekend - but it's part of his The Weekend Wood Worker course, so he only releases the plans for that one occasionally when advertising the course. Edit: turns out he still gives away the bench plans and video instructions for free as a teaser for the course (see the bottom of this page): https://theweekendwoodworker.com/story/ or https://theweekendwoodworker.com/bmw/.

    In terms of timber dimensions vary between the producers/suppliers. Most still provide based on receiving imperial requests and what you'll get will be the metric equivalent - the mm value can and will vary a lot, regardless of whether you get rough sawn or PAO. It'll always be smaller because that's cheaper for the provider!


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    #5
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    Here's a clear example. A piece of PAO whitedeal that I ordered by specifying 3x3 - and that ain't no 3"! :D

    When you get used to it, your mind automatically adjusts to reality and you think of the 3x3 or whatever as a dimensionless label more than an actual size.


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    #6
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    chillyspoon wrote: »
    Here's a clear example. A piece of PAO whitedeal that I ordered by specifying 3x3 - and that ain't no 3"! :D

    When you get used to it, your mind automatically adjusts to reality and you think of the 3x3 or whatever as a dimensionless label more than an actual size.

    I see, so more like "squarish" cross section or "flat board" rather than hard measurements.

    Another question is 12"x2" a common measurement in Irish hardware shops? My local one reckoned 9x2 was the widest available.


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    #7
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭cletus


    The nominal sizes are a throwback to original practices in cutting lumber. Boards would be rough cut to, say 4x2, but by the time it was dried and planed it would have lost size.

    All nominal sizes have corresponding actual dimensions, so that nominal 4x2 will be 3 1/2 X 1 1/2


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    #8
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,293 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i mentioned my notion of building one to the chairman of our woodturning chapter, he said there are certain lumber yards he'd recommend to visit which would allow you to pick through the lumber to choose the best; i'll probably revisit this when the restrictions lift.
    not sure if i'll be able to share the info, i think he might be calling in a fabout with one or two lumber yards, would be heading along with me to one, possibly.

    the reason i mentioned it to him in the first place was in regards to borrowing clamps for the glue-up, as i don't have nearly enough.


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    #9
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    cletus wrote: »
    The nominal sizes are a throwback to original practices in cutting lumber. Boards would be rough cut to, say 4x2, but by the time it was dried and planed it would have lost size.

    All nominal sizes have corresponding actual dimensions, so that nominal 4x2 will be 3 1/2 X 1 1/2

    There's an additional factor here in western Europe because the transition from imperial to metric was sufficiently recent to have us still talking in terms of imperial dimensions while much of the modern machinery producing commercial quantities of S4S timber is processing dimensions in mm, which is all very interesting but of little relevance for your bench needs - lol :D


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    #10
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭cletus


    I suppose it all goes to say that if you stay at it for any length of time, you'll very quickly get used to intuiting what you actually need dimensionally from the nominal sizes.

    Throw up pictures of the bench when you're done (and a couple of the process while you're at it)

    As it goes, I've built a couple of different work benches, some out of just 4x2's and 18" ply, and all have been more than serviceable


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    #11
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    What part of the country are you located in bwbg78? - there are folks all over the place here, so someone's bound to be able to help you find suitable suppliers reasonably local to you when things settle down like Magic's mentioned of course.


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    #12
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    chillyspoon wrote: »
    What part of the country are you located in bwbg78? - there are folks all over the place here, so someone's bound to be able to help you find suitable suppliers reasonably local to you when things settle down like Magic's mentioned of course.

    Thanks very much. I'm based in Tuam, I believe there's someone milling timber in Corofin but I can seem to track them down online.


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    #13
    recipio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭recipio


    Buying rough timber will always be the most economical - but you really need a planer/thicknesser to process it. Getting 4x4 timber may well involve buying fence posts unless you are willing to glue up 2 inch stuff.This will be pretty wet as it is often stored outside.
    Almost all the rough timber you buy will be a 'spruce' of some kind.If you can find Red Deal ( Scots Pine ) its a nicer wood all round or you might find ' Yellow Pine'
    from the US which is almost free of knots.
    I don't think you will find any softwood boards wider than 10 " so unless you want to make a family heirloom use whatever wood you can find that looks nice.;)


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    #14
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    recipio wrote: »
    Buying rough timber will always be the most economical - but you really need a planer/thicknesser to process it. Getting 4x4 timber may well involve buying fence posts unless you are willing to glue up 2 inch stuff.This will be pretty wet as it is often stored outside.
    Almost all the rough timber you buy will be a 'spruce' of some kind.If you can find Red Deal ( Scots Pine ) its a nicer wood all round or you might find ' Yellow Pine'
    from the US which is almost free of knots.
    I don't think you will find any softwood boards wider than 10 " so unless you want to make a family heirloom use whatever wood you can find that looks nice.;)

    Thanks a million for the details. This should make my next trip to the counter in the builders' providers a lot less cringe!


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    #15
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    bwbg78 wrote: »
    Thanks very much. I'm based in Tuam, I believe there's someone milling timber in Corofin but I can seem to track them down online.

    There are a few avenues for investigation you could pursue to find out but you'll probably need to wait until restrictions are eventually relaxed.

    - get in touch with your nearest wood turning chapter; guaranteed someone will know the local mills; there are often private mills as well as public ones.
    - get in touch with your nearest men's shed group, if there are some wood workers among the members you'll find someone that knows the local mills there too.
    - call the local builders supplies places and simply ask if they know who does rough sawn wood nearby.

    ... but; going all the way back to your initial post, unless you're really dead set on building Rex's design from rough sawn wood, I'd recommend just buying some PAO dimensioned red deal and 18mm WBP ply (or MR MDF) from a well stocked builder supplies place to build your first bench with. It'll be enough of a project to get started with without needing to dimension and plane the timber first, and you can then use that bench to plane rough sawn wood for years to come!

    By the way, if you tell the builders supplies place that you're buying construction timber for making furniture (even crappy white deal) they're usually happy to either let you pick your own or they'll pick out some straighter stuff for you. I do that the whole time, and I usually - not always - ends up with better stuff than if I say nothing.


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    #16
    Double Barrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Double Barrel


    This bench ?? is not for heavy work but will work for many woodwork situations with some ingenuity. :) Excellent for a small space.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5262b963e4b0823534b296d1/t/530ba471e4b0e23db62d05ee/1393271921813/workbench%2520article%25202009%5Bsmallpdf.com%5D.pdf

    There are a host of tried and true jigs in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWbgkl_ryM&feature=youtu.be


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    #17
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    Double Barrel wrote: »
    This bench ?? is not for heavy work but will work for many woodwork situations with some ingenuity. :) Excellent for a small space.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5262b963e4b0823534b296d1/t/530ba471e4b0e23db62d05ee/1393271921813/workbench%2520article%25202009%5Bsmallpdf.com%5D.pdf

    There are a host of tried and true jigs in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWbgkl_ryM&feature=youtu.be

    Thanks! These might be a better starting point.

    This is what I had in mind originally https://youtu.be/zcq1LQq08lk but I couldn't post the link in my first post as I'm a newb.


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    #18
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭cletus


    If you want something simple and sturdy to begin with, the frame below is easy to make, and you just top it with ply. The ply can be replaced when it becomes damaged, and the bench is cheap enough to make. This mean you have a surface to work on while you figure out exactly what you want in a bench, position, size, style, shape, vice location etc.

    The frame in the picture is completely scalable to whatever dimensions suit, and I've made them like this before so that the off cut of the sheet of ply for the top becomes a storage shelf underneath

    9caca865598f07d17d7f5d905e6f1aa3.jpg


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    #19
    mayo.mick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭mayo.mick


    bwbg78 wrote: »
    Thanks very much. I'm based in Tuam, I believe there's someone milling timber in Corofin but I can seem to track them down online.

    I buy my woodturning stock from that guy in Corrofin, he has a good selection of boards of every size. I can DM his number and directions if you want?

    Swinford Weather



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    #20
    bwbg78
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭bwbg78


    mayo.mick wrote: »
    I buy my woodturning stock from that guy in Corrofin, he has a good selection of boards of every size. I can DM his number and directions if you want?

    I'd really appreciate that! Thanks a million.


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    #21
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i mentioned my notion of building one to the chairman of our woodturning chapter, he said there are certain lumber yards he'd recommend to visit which would allow you to pick through the lumber to choose the best; i'll probably revisit this when the restrictions lift.
    not sure if i'll be able to share the info, i think he might be calling in a fabout with one or two lumber yards, would be heading along with me to one, possibly
    Maybe, but I know Quinns are fine with it, McMahons as well.
    Last I was in Quinns, they had really thick red deal; after building my own bench with a laminated top, my next one will just take two large slabs of red deal (which will work out costing about the same anyway) and use those. Far less effort. Also, nicer material than the raw white deal I used :D
    (Though to be fair, my bench has served me very well indeed, and it was put together rather cack-handedly, so the basic nicholson design (the one Paul Sellers used) is really, really robust).


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    #22
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Oh, and almost all the timber yards do delivery as well, so if you just wanted to call them up and ask for material, they're used to that. It's how most of their business would go anyway. Construction workers and joiners don't seem to pick out individual boards from packs of timber in the yard :D


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