[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

lostexpectation · 29-01-2009 8:23pm

this go for mainstream tv and film too, a presume the 'big 4' covers these comapnies

Censorsh!t · 29-01-2009 8:39pm

I presume this includes sending music over msn and in emails??

Sorry if it was asked, but i read the first 15 pages and then skipped on

PaddyTheNth · 29-01-2009 8:46pm

Censorsh!t wrote: »

I presume this includes sending music over msn and in emails??

Sorry if it was asked, but i read the first 15 pages and then skipped on

I guess that is technically peer to peer, but no, it's making it publicly available that has their knickers in a twist...torrents being the primary current example of this...previously it was things like Kazaa and limewire.

rogue-entity · 29-01-2009 8:49pm

aidanodr wrote: »

BUT you know, things like this start here with such a ruling ( now we have a court precident ) and then have the potential to expand into other non illegal area's - being used as a censorship tool which could in the long run cripple internet use in Ireland in some ways? As I said previously - THE GREAT FIREWALL OF EIRE begins? Just throwing the argument out there for debate ..

Aidan

The UK already has this... its called CleanFeed, under the watchful rule guise of the IWF.

niceirishfella wrote: »

What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
Will they be safe?

Probably not for long.. but there is always VPN's through servers outside Ireland to avoid it, if you are that desperate.

BlueNemo · 29-01-2009 8:52pm

i read the first few pages of this and skipped on so excuse me if this has been answered already..

Will i be cut off for downloading music from rapidshare via REMOVED?

i know hardly anything about computers so just a quick yes/no will suffice

niceirishfella · 29-01-2009 8:56pm

BlueNemo wrote: »

i read the first few pages of this and skipped on so excuse me if this has been answered already..

Will i be cut off for downloading music from rapidshare via REMOVED?

i know hardly anything about computers so just a quick yes/no will suffice

if its illegal and they detect you, Yes.
But you'll recieve 3 warnings before they would disconect you, so you'll be able to mend your ways.

BlueNemo · 29-01-2009 9:08pm

Damn i'd best stop so, thanks

JustAddWater · 29-01-2009 9:09pm

i'm in hmv as i write this. its a disgraceful 28.99 yes 28.99 for 'the cheetah girls' OST. really wtf is that all about. thats the problem right there...

Unregistered. · 29-01-2009 9:12pm

Sure the internet in College network is 100Mb+, I'd like to see them narrow any thing to anybody.

niceirishfella · 29-01-2009 9:13pm

BlueNemo wrote: »

Damn i'd best stop so, thanks

well, its your call.
But, you will get 3 warnings...infact you may never get any warnings. Methinks this is a lot of bluster and will be half arsed managed or executed.

FruitLover · 29-01-2009 9:14pm

thegoth wrote: »

Ok Guys. Fact is that eircom will be cracking down on P2P. What solutions cans we use to get around this ?

Will something like freegate work for P2P ?

Not entirely accurate - Eircom will be cracking down on illegal P2P. If all you download using P2P is legal data, then you won't be cracked down upon.

dbrowne9212 wrote: »

Moderators need to chill out here.

Do you want to see Boards in the high court?

Unregistered. · 29-01-2009 9:19pm

FruitLover wrote: »

Do you want to see Boards in the high court?

I hear it's all the rage these days....

watty · 29-01-2009 9:21pm

realcam wrote: »

Problem is - like you pointed out - that using p2p software and sharing music aren't the same thing. I know in reality this explanation is kind of lame but technically you could well use p2p software to download/upload something that is not illegal to share.
Also it is not actually illegal to download something that is copyright protected, right? If it was then the MI could simply go down the legal route which they are not as they well know how slippery that slope is and they have failed in most other countries to successfully do this.

My guess is that Eircom were simply scared **** being threatened with civil legal action as Ireland is a soft spot for that kind of thing.

The alternative that was worrying all the ISPs was that they would each have to install MILLIONS of Euros worth of traffic/deep packet analysis gear.

1) It would slow the networks
2) It can't tell what is copyright
3) It's easily defeated.

The T&C / Fair Use policies have always had provision to disconnect those involved in copyright infringement.

The issue is not Joe Ordinary that downloads one track from somewhere of an out of print album. The issue is people that are running 24x 7 file sharing using torrents, newsgroups, rapid share whatever.

There is a huge amount fo stupid hysteria on this thread.

Eircom are NOT going to target or monitor anything other than quantity of traffic. The same applies to virtually every ISP.

Eircom are NOT going to give ANY detials of the user of an IP at a the logged time given by the Rights owner to Anyone. Same applies to ANY ISP. You need a Court Order.

There is no law or criminalisation involved. The civil contract you agreed with ISP gives them the right to terminate the contract it they think you are using BB to share AND/OR Download copyright material you have no right to.

The Copyright holders concentrate not on the traffic (which is doomed solution, especially with encryption) but on the sources and trackers, even creating sources and clients. Not just P2P. Some of this may not be legal, but isn't happening here and doesn't affect people using BBC iplayer, Sky Kontiki or even Bittorrent / uTorrent for Ubuntu/Linux ISOs.

There are two warnings. That means leached WiFi, apartments or houses with 10 students sharing etc can be sorted before the second one, never mind out.

Get a grip folks. This is actually good news for everyone except easily identified mass copyright infringers.

The Rights holders never know who owns an IP. An IP reported 100 times could be one person or a hundred people. They can't even tell if eircom has really warned someone or disconnected them. The IP will be reused even if static.

Re read my original post and stop worrying...

Unless you ARE downloading 100Gbyte uploading 30Gbyte a month of material that isn't yours. Even then you are not going to get criminalised or prosecuted. You only get disconnected if you ignore two warnings.

FruitLover · 29-01-2009 9:26pm

realcam wrote: »

So now Eircom threatens to cancel the service based on circumstancial evidence without any legal backing. A service which may or may not be crucial for myself or my business which may lead to counterclaims.

Bear in mind that the threatening letter alone is going to be enough to get a significant number of users to quit leeching (if they're doing it) or look into it (if it's an employee at a business or whatever). Eircom barely have to do any work, and they a) get the recording industry off their back and b) get rid of some bandwidth-hogs. Win-win!

I'd be surprised if we start seeing people actually getting cut off any time soon.

thebman wrote: »

They did resist it, they got taken to court. I imagine they can't afford the cost of the lawsuit.

Yup, and I wonder if all the people moaning about Eircom 'giving in' etc have any idea how much a day in the high court costs? Or the ignorance in technical matters of a 60-odd-year-old judge...

watty · 29-01-2009 9:31pm

FruitLover wrote: »

Not entirely accurate - Eircom will be cracking down on illegal P2P. If all you download using P2P is legal data, then you won't be cracked down upon.

Actually the point is that eircom will only monitor your traffic. They are ONLY going to "crack down" when they get a report of IP + time/date.

They know what amount of traffic then and who had it.
They can warn you twice and 3rd time they disconnect you.

However the 3rd parties doing the reporting don't ever know who the IP was used by. They can't know if eircom only actions people reported with more than a certain mount of traffic, or if the person reforms after 1st warning.

It doesn't even have to be P2P.

BadCharlie · 29-01-2009 9:33pm

I read a few pages but still unsure.

To be honest
I download movies from time to time, using utorrent. Looking at what was reported on RTE it was saying music. I did not see movies been mentioned. But im still thinking if i download a movie or 2 a month i will be targeted by eircom ?
Yes or No

Thanks

BlueNemo · 29-01-2009 9:38pm

one more question... what about video.google.com?? that actually allows you to download videos from it.... will that be included too?

they should really have some terms and conditions included in this

once again, google video... safe? not safe?

lostexpectation · 29-01-2009 9:39pm

watty people arn't worried about being prosecuted they worried about being able to continue to do what they do nowa.

PaddyTheNth · 29-01-2009 9:43pm

BadCharlie wrote: »

I read a few pages but still unsure.

To be honest
I download movies from time to time, using utorrent. Looking at what was reported on RTE it was saying music. I did not see movies been mentioned. But im still thinking if i download a movie or 2 a month i will be targeted by eircom ?
Yes or No

Thanks

No. At least not initially - this agreement is between EMI Records (Ireland) Ltd, Sony BMG Music Entertainment (Ireland) Ltd, Universal Music (Ireland) Ltd and Warner Music (Ireland) Ltd and Eircom and is accordingly concerned with music. However you can be sure that if they see success from this their sibling film divisions and other film rights-holders will seek to get a similar agreement with Eircom.

And you won't be targeted by Eircom. You'll be targeted by the above-named companies or their contractors who will pass your IP to Eircom for processing.

BlueNemo wrote: »

one more question... what about video.google.com?? that actually allows you to download videos from it.... will that be included too?

they should really have some terms and conditions included in this

once again, google video... safe? not safe?

Again, this is about illegal peer-to-peer file sharing - that's downloading from and uploading to other individuals' computers, whereas Google video is a centrally hosted (at least from the outside) repository.

Cabaal · 29-01-2009 9:45pm

BlueNemo wrote: »

i read the first few pages of this and skipped on so excuse me if this has been answered already..

Will i be cut off for downloading music from rapidshare via REMOVED?

i know hardly anything about computers so just a quick yes/no will suffice

BlueNemo, 1 month ban for posting link to warez site, please read the charter in future

Cabaal,

DeVore · 29-01-2009 9:45pm

Eircom have common carrier status. They could easily have fought this and probably won. If you want to talk about the great firewall of Eire or censorship you dont need to look further then our libel laws...

Can't wait to see how this one plays out over time but I'm guessing a few high profile cases to scare the day-trippers and then nothing...

DeV.

Unregistered. · 29-01-2009 9:51pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Speaking of that, say you get the 3 warnings and are cut off, are you charged a fine? Can you just simply sign up to another ISP instead of Eircom once they cut you off?

I sure the other ISP's will be glad to have your business, as so far this agreement onlt applies to Eircom! The same thing might end up happening with other ISP's, maybe all of them, but since it hasn't happened yet, here's a thought....

People start getting cut off from Eircom. Heavy downloaders not wanting the hassle of getting cut off, switch ISP's in order to avoid detection. Either Eircom would have to lower their prices to nudge people back; Or the other ISP's will raise the prices a little coz they know they'll be getting more customers.
This is just a broad speculation, but it could see Eircom go bust because of this agreement. Hey - they may even sue the 4 music companies for their loss in revenue! Only in Ireland ey......

Cabaal · 29-01-2009 9:53pm

DeVore wrote: »

Eircom have common carrier status. They could easily have fought this and probably won. If you want to talk about the great firewall of Eire or censorship you dont need to look further then our libel laws...

Can't wait to see how this one plays out over time but I'm guessing a few high profile cases to scare the day-trippers and then nothing...

DeV.

I'd have to agree, one or two cases will hit the media that will stop the average joe and that';ll be it with the exception of a few warnings here and there

cabaal,

Cabaal · 29-01-2009 9:56pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

I sure the other ISP's will be glad to have your business, as so far this agreement onlt applies to Eircom! The same thing might end up happening with other ISP's, maybe all of them, but since it hasn't happened yet, here's a thought....

People start getting cut off from Eircom. Heavy downloaders not wanting the hassle of getting cut off, switch ISP's in order to avoid detection. Either Eircom would have to lower their prices to nudge people back; Or the other ISP's will raise the prices a little coz they know they'll be getting more customers.
This is just a broad speculation, but it could see Eircom go bust because of this agreement. Hey - they may even sue the 4 music companies for their loss in revenue! Only in Ireland ey......

So those heavy users that represent a extremely small percentage of eircom customers are going to move from eircom to another ISP who is a eircom reseller.

I don't see how this would even bother eircom, you have to remember heavy users are not worth it...you often end up with say 5% of users utilizing 90% of the network. No ISP likes them really

I'd suggest you read the Charter/FAQ which has a post which covers the business model used by ISP's and why its not worth them having heavy users.

John Sheehy · 29-01-2009 10:01pm

Guess people are going to have to give their money over to capitalists in sports cars for over priced cd's or **** quality mp3s that you can only play on five devices (thanks Apple). It's hardly the end of piracy though, if someone is willing to pay for a BB connection to get music I don't think it's too far a stretch of the imagination that they'll go to a friends house to copy some.

Was bound to happen though and it's hard to blame Eircom as a business with obligations to shareholders and employees to comply with the big recording companies.

I don't know much about dis sheeit right here but surely there are alternative ways to procure filez without going through torrents? "Pirates" are probably going to be able to move faster than record companies (who have to spend money and time in courts across the globe). Is some lesser known technology going to come to prominence and become the new mode of transferring?

Unregistered. · 29-01-2009 10:01pm

:mad:

Cabaal wrote: »

So those heavy users that represent a extremely small percentage of eircom customers are going to move from eircom to another ISP who is a eircom reseller.

I don't see how this would even bother eircom, you have to remember heavy users are not worth it...you often end up with say 5% of users utilizing 90% of the network. No ISP likes them really

I'd suggest you read the Charter/FAQ which has a post which covers the business model used by ISP's and why its not worth them having heavy users.

Excuse me but I said I was broadly speculating! And I did not say "heavy users" I said "heavy DOWNLOADERS" nor did i define what I meant by "heavy". And if you thought about it, "not wanting the hassle of getting cut off..." does not actually apply solely to heavy downloaders, does it??? So I don't get why you're throwing up all this "5% of users utilizing 90%" malarky without trying to dismantle what I was trying to get at in my post.

You're actually so rude!

PaddyTheNth · 29-01-2009 10:06pm

John Sheehy wrote: »

"Pirates" are probably going to be able to move faster than record companies (who have to spend money and time in courts across the globe). Is some lesser known technology going to come to prominence and become the new mode of transferring?

Absolutely. This has been and always will continue to be the case imo.

watty · 29-01-2009 10:08pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

watty people arn't worried about being prosecuted they worried about being able to continue to do what they do nowa.

You don't need to worry at all unless you get a warning.

There is no fine. Just disconnection if your IP keeps getting reported and you ignore eircom's warning.

PogMoThoin · 29-01-2009 10:13pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

:mad:
Excuse me but I said I was broadly speculating! And I did not say "heavy users" I said "heavy DOWNLOADERS" nor did i define what I meant by "heavy". And if you thought about it, "not wanting the hassle of getting cut off..." does not actually apply solely to heavy downloaders, does it??? So I don't get why you're throwing up all this "5% of users utilizing 90%" malarky without trying to dismantle what I was trying to get at in my post.

Heavy downloaders use other sources that can't be traced

lostexpectation · 29-01-2009 10:20pm

John Sheehy wrote: »

I don't know much about dis sheeit right here but surely there are alternative ways to procure filez without going through torrents? "Pirates" are probably going to be able to move faster than record companies (who have to spend money and time in courts across the globe). Is some lesser known technology going to come to prominence and become the new mode of transferring?

surely somebody is cooking up a scheme right now for new style of sharing, that as easy to use as torrenting

[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

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