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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Comments

  • #1172
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Fuk it! I'm done..You win...:)
    It's a debate, a differing of opinion. There doesn't have to be a winner, but the rest of your post would seem to differ from this statement:
    But as Gallielo said after being tortured by the church and forced to recant his theories on the Earth going around the Sun."Yet it still does such".They are still legally defined as "silencers":P:P:P:P
    Its a misnomer.

    You said above even a 50cal can be fully silenced with "normal" rounds. I said this cannot be done:
    Cass wrote: »
    As for completely silencing a "normal" shot, this is my point above. It cannot happen so why say it can. Any bullet doing super sonic speeds makes a sonic boom that a suppressor cannot "silence".
    So prove me wrong. Show or explain to me how this is done using normal, super sonic, rounds.
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  • #1173
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Using a big enough of a can,matched to the burnt powder volume and to the requirements of the guns action to cycle rounds using normal ammo has been and can be done.HK builds a world famous silenced SMG [Hk SD] that uses any type of 9mm ammo.Sub sonic as well as normal supersonic 9mm rounds for decades.
    Barret has a can for its light 50 cal rifle that brings the noise of a 50 cal down by 28 decibels.And there is no such thing as subsonic 50 cal ammo.Feck I'm even using supersonic ammo in my AR10 with a can.So it has been out there for yonks.
    As for the supersonic crack,[and no doubt youll argue this point] in real life it is actually very irrevelant both in a tactical or hunting situation,as the bullet is flying faster than the speed of sound,it is virtually impossible to identify where a silenced/suppressed/muffled round came from in the zone of confusion.What would give you away using somthing like an unsuppressed/silenced Barret is the "signiture" of the gun.IE the distinctive "THUMP!" of a 50 cal round,and a unavoidable dust cloud from the muzzle blast fired prone in a arid enviroment,were someone sharp eyed enough to spot it.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1174
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Using a big enough of a can,matched to the burnt powder volume and to the requirements of the guns action to cycle rounds using normal ammo has been and can be done.
    Show me one example of a supersonic round being used in any type of firearm and it being "silenced".
    HK builds a world famous silenced SMG [Hk SD] that uses any type of 9mm ammo.
    Ah yes, the MP5 SD SMG. SD - Schalldämpfer, German for sound suppressor. As most 9mm stuff is just super sonic it still makes a sonic crack, so to get full effect ammo is loaded slightly less to make is subsonic.

    So not silenced, just suppressed.
    Sub sonic as well as normal supersonic 9mm rounds for decades.
    Sub sonics are the only type of ammo that can be used to fully suppress the heard report although that still leaves the environment, impact of the bullet, and action type of the firearm.
    Barret has a can for its light 50 cal rifle that brings the noise of a 50 cal down by 28 decibels.
    Down by 28db is not silenced. To fully suppress it you need sub sonic ammo which can be hand loaded.
    And there is no such thing as subsonic 50 cal ammo.
    Yes there is, as i said above it's hand loaded. Would drop like a stone, but it can be done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cK9WQeNqN4

    Feck I'm even using supersonic ammo in my AR10 with a can.So it has been out there for yonks.
    And it's silent? No, it;s not. I've shot beside you. Its quieter than without the can, but not silenced. It's suppressed.
    As for the supersonic crack,[and no doubt youll argue this point]
    How can there be any doubt as i mentioned it above:
    Cass wrote: »
    Any bullet doing super sonic speeds makes a sonic boom that a suppressor cannot "silence".
    This is the very basis for my argument that a super sonic round cannot be "silenced" only suppressed.
    in real life it is actually very irrevelant both in a tactical or hunting situation,as the bullet is flying faster than the speed of sound,it is virtually impossible to identify where a silenced/suppressed/muffled round came from in the zone of confusion.
    Said that too:
    Cass wrote:
    It suppresses the heard report at the gun/shooter's position, nothing more. By doing this, in hunting terms, the quarry cannot detect the location of the shooter.
    What would give you away using somthing like an unsuppressed/silenced Barret is the "signiture" of the gun.
    An unsuppressed shot from anything supersonic would do the same.


    This might seem like an exercise in futility as it's "only a word" but it's important to correct misinformation especially when it's used against us. The term silencer summons the same negative thoughts and imagery as the word weapon.

    The fact that one TD is asking about them may amount to nothing or a lot. There will be a general election by the end of this year and while no one campaigns on gun control as it's a dead duck/pointless, these little sound bites and a pledge to "get guns off our streets" go a long way with the great unwashed.

    Taking the extra time to correct misnomers like this one is important because for the little it can do, it's doing it. Ignore this as nothing burger and you'll find in a couple of years you won't be able to license/get them because a retrospective ban will be announced but never implemented (like the semi auto situation) or an outright ban of them. There are already cases, and i'm hearing more each time, of people being outright refused them already. Couple that to the amount of changes i've seen with no legal basis in the last 18 months and i have to wonder if another shooting group is working behind the scenes to throw the sport under the bus to save their own little corner, or if there are already plans to introduce something int he near future.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #1175
    BryanL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭BryanL


    Moderators should be viewed as a health and safety device.


  • #1176
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    BryanL wrote: »
    Moderators should be viewed as a health and safety device.

    But but but but............ how can you hear the bullet coming and duck out of the way of it?


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  • #1177
    Melodeon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    BryanL wrote: »
    Moderators should be viewed as a health and safety device.
    But but but but............ how can you hear the bullet coming and duck out of the way of it?

    This is obviously what BryanL was talking about:
    482993.jpg


  • #1178
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Show me one example of a supersonic round being used in any type of firearm and it being "silenced".
    Ah yes, the MP5 SD SMG. SD - Schalldämpfer, German for sound suppressor. As most 9mm stuff is just super sonic it still makes a sonic crack, so to get full effect ammo is loaded slightly less to make is subsonic.

    Nope directly translated "Shall" Sound "Dampfer" to reduce or to muffle, so a sound reducer or muffler. And again,not necessarily so,it can use BOTH types ,as you mightnt have the selection of subsonic rounds within a mission parameter
    Sub sonics are the only type of ammo that can be used to fully suppress the heard report although that still leaves the environment, impact of the bullet, and action type of the firearm.

    As I said on all those points a silenced semi auto,is going to be always noiser than a single shot break open rifle or pistol.
    Down by 28db is not silenced. To fully suppress it you need sub sonic ammo which can be hand loaded.

    It is lot if you have ever shot or been near a 50 cal!:D
    Indeed it can,BUT DOES the rifle then work if it is a SA??Are you going to trade noise reduction for functionality and reliability?Bad choice unless you are paper punching maybe?

    Yes there is, as i said above it's hand loaded. Would drop like a stone, but it can be done.

    Can and actual doing are poles apart here. In the circumstances of using a 50 cal as a sniper weapon.Belive me,if they thought there was value in doing so they would.I cant see what purpose a sub sonic 50 cal would bring to anyone?You are losing power,and distance for quitness,which is moot as the noise becomes mostly irrevelant as the distance from the target is over 1000 meters if you are using a 50 cal properly?

    And it's silent? No, it;s not. I've shot beside you. Its quieter than without the can, but not silenced. It's suppressed.

    Technically and mechanically correct,legally as in definition and on my liscense,its a gun with a silencer.Both correct terms.
    This is the very basis for my argument that a super sonic round cannot be "silenced" only suppressed.
    The sonic crack of the round cant be suppressed/silenced.The venting explosion at the muzzle certainly can be silenced/suppressed.The action noise can be silenced.You are really only left with the sonic crack.

    An unsuppressed shot from anything supersonic would do the same.

    Not necessarily, it depends again on where you are in the zones of identification or zone of confusion.Unsuppressed gunshots are easily heard in the zone of identification.A silenced/suppressed shot opens the zone of confusion vastly. The signiture of a rifle,in the big calibres,is the dust cloud they raise when fired close to the ground.That is a big giveaway if people know what to look for after a hit comes in.Thats why you should see professional personel protection,looking intently in the direction they think the shot came from.they are looking for a tell tale dust /dirt/snow frost/cloud.
    This might seem like an exercise in futility as it's "only a word" but it's important to correct misinformation especially when it's used against us. The term silencer summons the same negative thoughts and imagery as the word weapon.

    The simple fact that it is misinformation to say that a suppressor is not a silencer,when both terms are correct for the same item.One is a legal term that has been in use since 1905 and the other is a technical term that came into fashion in the 1960s after the US Armed forces got into the act of using them in Vietnam and had to apply their langauge to it. Calling it a silencer,suppresor ,sound modifier,is all correct for the same thing.

    Taking the extra time to correct misnomers like this one is important because for the little it can do, it's doing it. Ignore this as nothing burger and you'll find in a couple of years you won't be able to license/get them because a retrospective ban will be announced but never implemented (like the semi auto situation) or an outright ban of them.

    Anyone who can google,can see the difference of this.But the trouble is not the words we use,it is whether those want to LISTEN to us or are just too pig headed and looking for a PR opportunity to make a noise for themselves.TBH seeing that we are now all on saving the planet,by banning diesel and petrol cars and going on an utter retrogressive Luddite energy policy of building giant bird slicers,and putting solar panels on every spare inch of roof and field crazy trip,in the face of reality of major industrial countries like Germany not being able to produce 40% of its domestic daily energy under optimal conditions of wind and sun,and having now the third most expensive energy in the EU.This is an utter dead duck...but then being Ireland I shouldnt be surprised either.:rolleyes:
    There are already cases, and i'm hearing more each time, of people being outright refused them already.

    Already granted lics or new applications?Both should be DC challenges then and I'm not hearing anything?OR are they being offered,to be used in limited areas .IE specific bits of ground/ranges and people are not taking the deal?
    Couple that to the amount of changes i've seen with no legal basis in the last 18 months and i have to wonder if another shooting group is working behind the scenes to throw the sport under the bus to save their own little corner, or if there are already plans to introduce something int he near future.

    Always possible here.But if we dont point these incidents out and inform others..How are we to know whats going down.Boards.ie/shooting is now THE only really quick and fast way of getting any info on whats going on here.So it does behoove us to put this info out pronto

    PS..Not telling your Mod biz,but shouldnt we take this off thread,as it isnt parlimentary debate anymore?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1179
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    PS..Not telling your Mod biz,but shouldnt we take this off thread,as it isnt parlimentary debate anymore?

    Done.
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  • #1180
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Before i go any further i should tell you i've edited your post above. i didn't change a word, but rather fixed the quotes because they were a little off, and one was you placing a response in quotation marks which made it look like i said it. Just in case you see the "edited" mark under your post.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • #1181
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Nope directly translated "Shall" Sound "Dampfer" to reduce or to muffle, so a sound reducer or muffler.
    Dampen, muffle, suppress. They all mean the same thing, to reduce something, not eliminate it entirely which is what silence means.
    And again,not necessarily so,it can use BOTH types ,as you mightnt have the selection of subsonic rounds within a mission parameter
    Not disputing the ability to use any type of ammo in the firearm only the ability for the firearm, using a suppressor, to silence a shot or not. With super sonic ammo it's not possible to silence the shot.
    Indeed it can,BUT DOES the rifle then work if it is a SA??Are you going to trade noise reduction for functionality and reliability?Bad choice unless you are paper punching maybe?
    Not interested in functionality as the topic we're discussing is can ANY firearm with a suppressor using "normal" super sonic ammo be fully silenced. Answer is always no.
    Can and actual doing are poles apart here. In the circumstances of using a 50 cal as a sniper weapon.Belive me,if they thought there was value in doing so they would.I cant see what purpose a sub sonic 50 cal would bring to anyone?You are losing power,and distance for quitness,which is moot as the noise becomes mostly irrevelant as the distance from the target is over 1000 meters if you are using a 50 cal properly?
    Again not germane to the discussion. The topic is about the ability of a device to silence a super sonic shot or not. Anything outside of sports shooting is moot to us, and this conversation.
    The sonic crack of the round cant be suppressed/silenced.
    Exactly.
    You are really only left with the sonic crack.
    Exactly, again.
    Not necessarily, it depends again on where you are in the zones of identification or zone of confusion.Unsuppressed gunshots are easily heard in the zone of identification.A silenced/suppressed shot opens the zone of confusion vastly. The signiture of a rifle,in the big calibres,is the dust cloud they raise when fired close to the ground.That is a big giveaway if people know what to look for after a hit comes in.Thats why you should see professional personel protection,looking intently in the direction they think the shot came from.they are looking for a tell tale dust /dirt/snow frost/cloud.
    Not relevant.
    The simple fact that it is misinformation to say that a suppressor is not a silencer,when both terms are correct for the same item.
    Suppress - To reduce
    Silence - the absence of

    Not the same thing.
    One is a legal term that has been in use since 1905
    Because someone first used the term and for want of a better way to put it, it stuck. Does not mean it's correct.
    Calling it a silencer,suppresor ,sound modifier,is all correct for the same thing
    Once again the words above don't have the same meaning. In fact suppress, modify, reduce, muffle are all closer to each other whereas silence is a separate thing.
    Anyone who can google,can see the difference of this.But the trouble is not the words we use
    Perhaps for some, but for me it's like nails on a chalk board. Everytime we see something on the news it's "weapon" this and "weapon" that. When they show an air rifle, BB toy, even a 22lr they use the term "sniper rifle". We all know better but that misinformation is hard to combat and once its out there the greater population that don't know anything about firearms or get their info from CNN, Facebook, etc. think we're all operators walking around with high powered military weapons.
    ,it is whether those want to LISTEN to us or are just too pig headed and looking for a PR opportunity
    Hah.

    Read that again and ask yourself when have we ever gotten anything other than that. Look at the pistol ban, the semi auto ban, the proposed lead ban, etc.
    This is an utter dead duck...:
    Until it's not. Look at New Zealand and semi autos because of one nutter. Ireland has a history of smaller groups being stepped on for virtue signaling, minority agendas, or just good old fashioned PR stunts.
    Already granted lics or new applications?
    Both, and not just suppressors.
    Both should be DC challenges then
    This all sounds well and good, but 99% will never take a DC case if refused.
    and I'm not hearing anything?OR are they being offered,to be used in limited areas .IE specific bits of ground/ranges and people are not taking the deal?
    Outright refusals, and no court cases. I have PMs, e-mails, phone calls, going back nearly two years with lads asking about what they should do. So i'm speaking from a personal point of view.
    Always possible here.But if we dont point these incidents out and inform others..How are we to know whats going down.Boards.ie/shooting is now THE only really quick and fast way of getting any info on whats going on here.So it does behoove us to put this info out pronto
    It's not my info to put out. If someone contacts me via the means i mentioned above then i treat it with a level of privacy and don't go posting about it here or anywhere else. If the person involved wants start a thread then haveatit, but until then i'll keep their confidence.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • #1182
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    A .45ACP DeLisle carbine being shot on our range a few years back. Note that this cartridge IS sub-sonic in any case.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Egigzz6j0


  • #1183
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Dampen, muffle, suppress. They all mean the same thing, to reduce something, not eliminate it entirely which is what silence means.

    No they dont! CONTEXT is very important in German,where a word can have three or more meanings within a phrase.
    " Laut los" would be silent,but it's an awkward phrase to use in the phraseology,so they call it a Sound reducer"
    Not disputing the ability to use any type of ammo in the firearm only the ability for the firearm, using a suppressor, to silence a shot or not. With super sonic ammo it's not possible to silence the shot.

    No again...It can silence the explosive noise of the controlled explosion of the gun shot.Not the sonic crack,two different things.

    Not interested in functionality as the topic we're discussing is can ANY firearm with a suppressor using "normal" super sonic ammo be fully silenced. Answer is always no.
    B
    ut in the real world people are intrested in functionality and reliability and not academic discussions on whether a subsonic 50 cal round has any benefits apart from Youtube entertainment value.
    Again not germane to the discussion. The topic is about the ability of a device to silence a super sonic shot or not. Anything outside of sports shooting is moot to us, and this conversation.

    But it is part of the discussion on a particular caliber,and whether in the real world it has any revelance or practical usage.

    Not relevant.
    Sorry extremely revelant to anything to do with silencers/suppressors.Whether sports or military,as this is the germane function of the device and how its effectiveness is determined.This is silencers 101 stuff.So it cant be dismissed as irrevelant.





    S
    uppress - To reduce
    Silence - the absence of

    Not the same thing.

    Correct,but also correct when used in a legal context or a technical context to describe the same item.

    Because someone first used the term and for want of a better way to put it, it stuck. Does not mean it's correct.

    115 years of Western legal wrangling, the inventors patent and nameing of his device in common American english parlance of his day and acceptenace of both terms in common English and jurisprudence argue against you.:)
    We dont say someone is incorrect in describing a 4WD as a "Jeep".We correct them if say they were desribing a Toyota Landcruiser as a "Jeep " product.Then we would.

    Once again the words above don't have the same meaning. In fact suppress, modify, reduce, muffle are all closer to each other whereas silence is a separate thing.

    Perhaps for some, but for me it's like nails on a chalk board. Everytime we see something on the news it's "weapon" this and "weapon" that. When they show an air rifle, BB toy, even a 22lr they use the term "sniper rifle". We all know better but that misinformation is hard to combat and once its out there the greater population that don't know anything about firearms or get their info from CNN, Facebook, etc. think we're all operators walking around with high powered military weapons.

    Hah.

    Read that again and ask yourself when have we ever gotten anything other than that. Look at the pistol ban, the semi auto ban, the proposed lead ban, etc.

    Yeah ,ten years ago.Things have moved on,we bloodied the aGS noses in the DC where they asssured us and thought they would win.They now have to pay costs,if they lose out of the district budget or from the DOJ purse.The Lead ban is an EU directive,our national organisation sat on its ass,and assumed FACE would look after it,while in Brussels FACE was in its own power struggle that cost it some serious influence.Hopefully now after its purge it will be an effective voice again,but this is why I say we cannot leave things that effect us on directive level to "Ah shure thats Brussels,let dem lot repersenting us deal with it over dere,be grand!"
    Have you heard of anyone being refused a CF /SA recently?I havent,ansd am considering applying for another,so its a self censoring ban,on pretty dubious legal grounds too.
    Point is we are in a different place where we were 10/12 years ago,so we are discussing ancient history now.
    Until it's not. Look at New Zealand and semi autos because of one nutter. Ireland has a history of smaller groups being stepped on for virtue signaling, minority agendas, or just good old fashioned PR stunts.

    To use your own saying on what happens in other countries...Irevelant what happens in NZ as to what happens here...As to being stepped on here for some votes or PR.Whoever does so,might find they have a very sore foot and a nail stuck in it.There is a different mindset coming up,and it is getting to be alot more out of the closet and miitant both in Ireland and the EU in general with shooters.
    Both, and not just suppressors.

    What else???

    This all sounds well and good, but 99% will never take a DC case if refused.

    But will gladly use the outcome of the 1% who do.Self denying bans at work again for some,no wonder AGS will still walk over us in some parts.
    Outright refusals, and no court cases. I have PMs, e-mails, phone calls, going back nearly two years with lads asking about what they should do. So i'm speaking from a personal point of view.

    It's not my info to put out. If someone contacts me via the means i mentioned above then i treat it with a level of privacy and don't go posting about it here or anywhere else. If the person involved wants start a thread then haveatit, but until then i'll keep their confidence
    .

    Not asking you to betray trust,or name names etc.But pointing out that there seems to be an increase in silencer/suppressor refusals around the districts of...Has anyone else experianced such?

    Tell them to contact Firearms United Network [Ireland] we want to hear from them about such cases.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1184
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Seems to be more women taking up shooting.Iv'e certainly noticed more female dog trainers in the field these days,a[nd they do a damn good job of it too]

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/calling-the-shots-more-women-take-up-sports-shooting-as-hobby/?fbclid=IwAR0XS4HgRAHDeZeUzCTmMd15SexlI3N0GYFJR73w51tvjZHRyKBhkpVvbnE

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1185
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    No they dont! CONTEXT is very important in German,............
    I only listed the German word as its a German gun. I'm not getting into a German grammar lesson here, and wasn't even referencing the German meaning, but the English one.
    No again...It can silence the explosive noise of the controlled explosion of the gun shot.Not the sonic crack,two different things.
    NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT. FFS. You are arguing moot points and irrelevant points.

    When i challenged you on the "silenced" 50cal with "normal" ammo you went off on a tangent about snipers, tactical/battlefield situations, etc. Nothing to do with the topic or what i'm talking about.

    A suppressor CANNOT silence a supersonic round. Trying to say it makes the heard report silent is a falsehood. It reduces the heard report, and with the right type of firearm all you get is the gas escaping noise, butt there is still noise and the supersonic crack is still noise.
    not academic discussions on whether a subsonic 50 cal round has any benefits apart from Youtube entertainment value.
    I never discussed the benefits of a sub sonic 50 cal round, only mentioned they can be got when you said they cannot be.
    But it is part of the discussion on a particular caliber,and whether in the real world it has any relevance or practical usage.
    We're not discussing calibers, only the ability of a suppressor to silence a gun using super sonic ammo, which you claim it can, and the relevance of such a statement to those in power that would seek to ban suppressors based on this falsehood.
    Sorry extremely revelant .......So it cant be dismissed as irrevelant.
    Yes it can because this is the shooting forum, we're sports shooters, not defence forces or LEO.
    115 years of Western legal wrangling, ............
    Just means they're wrong, longer.
    We correct them if say they were desribing a Toyota Landcruiser as a "Jeep " product..
    Utterly irrelevant until the day they decide to ban jeeps, land rover, land crusiers, etc, etc. because of the connotations they summon.
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  • #1186
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    You're splitting topics so i'm splitting replies.

    Have you heard of anyone being refused a CF /SA recently?I havent,ansd am considering applying for another,so its a self censoring ban,on pretty dubious legal grounds too.
    Nope. Also haven't heard of many if any applying for one either. As for shakey legal ground, how so. It's the same thing they done to the pistols with the statement in 2008 and the legislation in 2009. That still stands, so if it's dodgy ground surely someone would have challenged it within the last 10 years.
    To use your own saying on what happens in other countries...Irevelant what happens in NZ as to what happens here.
    Really?

    So the semi auto ban is irrelevant? A TD asking about suppressors in the Dail is irrelevant. I'll mark this moment and come back to you in a few years and see if you think it's still irrelevant.
    Whoever does so,might find they have a very sore foot and a nail stuck in it.There is a different mindset coming up,and it is getting to be alot more out of the closet and miitant both in Ireland and the EU in general with shooters.
    You're dreaming.

    From an Irish perspective we are a fragmented, non existing lobby group of 140,000 at best. Over half are farmers and the rest would sooner screw you over to earn a buck that help out for the sake of the sport. Your "ancient history" would show you this if it wasn't so quickly dismissed/forgotten about as ancient history.
    BBut will gladly use the outcome of the 1% who do.
    DC are not courts of record, and with some being settled on the steps its not even a case.
    Tell them to contact Firearms United Network [Ireland] we want to hear from them about such cases.
    That's your pony, work away.
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  • #1187
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    The EFFECTIVE use of any kind of sound moderator in a combat zone is totally dependent on the location of the person being shot at. From personal experience, I can advise the forum that shots that go nowhere near you can only be located by a VERY skilled person who has an ear and eye in the air, since all you get is a distant 'thump', and maybe a bit of raised dust from the muzzle blast.

    If you are the intended target then two things will happen -

    Case #1. If the shot fortuitously misses you, you will hear a very sharp whiplash-like crack as it passes you by, usually supersonically. You can then estimate the range by mentally measuring the interval between the 'crack' and the 'thump'. This is a called 'ranging by crack and thump'. You may, OTOH, be too busy trying to stay alive and getting under some dirt to bother.

    Case #2. If the shot hits you, then you are likely past caring WTF the shot came from. If that be the case, you won't have heard a thing.


  • #1188
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    You're splitting topics so i'm splitting replies.


    Nope. Also haven't heard of many if any applying for one either. As for shakey legal ground, how so. It's the same thing they done to the pistols with the statement in 2008 and the legislation in 2009. That still stands, so if it's dodgy ground surely someone would have challenged it within the last 10 years.

    So why didnt that creep from Louth not ban them in 2008??He could have,and ignoring the supposedly heroic last minute efforts of a former leader of the NARGC.I think the thorny issue of Com-pen-sation under article 42 of the Irish constitution and article 5 of EUCHR might have played a big part in that Lout from Louths decision making.


    Really?
    So the semi auto ban is irrelevant? A TD asking about suppressors in the Dail is irrelevant. I'll mark this moment and come back to you in a few years and see if you think it's still irrelevant.


    Which SA ban?Here or NZ? Here there is no ban,we are self banning,as the fear of loss at some unspecified time in the future,is putting people off.NZ,sofar only somthing like 3thousand have been handed in.The biggest street gang in NZ[The Mongerls] has told Shovel Gob Arden to stick it,as they need thiers for personal protection,and it is now showing that it will cost over 1billion NZ dollars to compensate the collectors and gunowners.So literally HALF of NZ national domestic budget ....Of course this wont be mentioned in MSM,but its a **** up of the highest order...as you say moot to us here?Instead of bejammering the fact Martin asked this Dail question and imagining the end of days.Maybe it would be more helpful to find out WHY it was asked and by whom?

    TD's dont just pop any old thing that comes into their head in the Dail as a question,as it has to be listed and be on the daily order of busisness of the house. So this has to have been asked of Martin to bring it to the fore at least2/3weeks ago.Sometime around that Markaov& silencer/suppressor being found ?



    From an Irish perspective we are a fragmented, non existing lobby group of 140,000 at best. Over half are farmers and the rest would sooner screw you over to earn a buck that help out for the sake of the sport. Your "ancient history" would show you this if it wasn't so quickly dismissed/forgotten about as ancient history
    .

    Belive it or not,we are in better shape than the UK,where Fuddism rules and there is less contact between the orgs than there is here.Sure thats Irish to try and make a quick buck off anyones back,but where is the sports colation of vested intrests today?
    DC are not courts of record, and with some being settled on the steps its not even a case.

    No,but they dont operate in a vaccum either. What one case settled in a DC,usually sets a precedent for others to follow.
    That's your pony, work away
    .
    Pass them on my details.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1189
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    So why didnt that creep from Louth not ban them in 2008??
    No idea, but possibly the issue of compensation as you said.

    However it had the same effect albeit under a longer time frame. How many CF pistols are there now compared to 2004-06? How many restricted 22lr from then to now?
    Which SA ban?Here or NZ?
    Here. I only mention NZ because of how quickly things change based on popular opinion.

    As for which ban i'm talking about this, and this. When i e-mailed the current Minister the reply i got was short, but this line in his response stood out:
    I wish to advise that the Department of Justice and Equality is committed to legislating to cease the new licensing of semi-automatic centre-fire rifles.
    Then there is the new Garda Commissioner's guidelines in which he states:
    Issuing persons and applicants alike should be mindful that, on 18th September 2015, the Minister for Justice and Equality announced that any new restricted firearm certificates for centre fire semi-automatic rifles, granted between that date and the enactment of proposed legislation banning the future licensing of these types of firearms, shall stand revoked.
    So on that basis anyone can go and get a restricted semi auto rifle as there is currently no law to prevent it. However if and when such legislation comes in it will be backdated to the Minister's original statement, and so stand revoked.

    I've said this from day one, and also said it's a self imposed ban (no argument on that front), but it's still effective because who will buy knowing it will be lost at some point.
    Instead of bejammering the fact Martin asked this Dail question and imagining the end of days.Maybe it would be more helpful to find out WHY it was asked and by whom?...........................Sometime around that Markaov& silencer/suppressor being found ?
    I was told the same thing on the semi auto ban, and it's gone form a statement to a declaration of intent.

    The question might seem benign, and may end up being nothing, but i don't trust TDs, and they have reasons for everything they do. As you pointed out it coincides with the finding of the pistol, which i spoke about, but its chance to score more brownie points at our expense. Call it cautious apprehension.
    Belive it or not,we are in better shape than the UK,where Fuddism rules and there is less contact between the orgs than there is here.Sure thats Irish to try and make a quick buck off anyones back,
    They got the general licenses re-instated. When was the last time we got something repealed?
    but where is the sports colation of vested intrests today?
    I don't know what is scarier. The fact they are quiet....................... or the fact they are quiet.
    No,but they dont operate in a vaccum either. What one case settled in a DC,usually sets a precedent for others to follow.
    You do know what court of record means? No precedent set, therefore no previous cases can be used as evidence.

    Of course I'm open to correction if someone can show me that DCs are not court of records.
    Pass them on my details.
    Will do.
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  • #1190
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    However it had the same effect albeit under a longer time frame. How many CF pistols are there now compared to 2004-06? How many restricted 22lr from then to now?

    We danced this number before.Or look at it another way...How many dedicated people were there who didnt fold in the face of adversity,mwere dead serious about this, and fought and won and got their guns ?


    As for which ban i'm talking about this, and this. When i e-mailed the current Minister the reply i got was short, but this line in his response stood out:

    And from your post.


    · Proposal to establish new Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority
    Still not done and doubtful ,if ever as to when.As it would show them up as being even more woefully ignorant of the laws than they aleready are.

    · Immediate cap on licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles
    No details given as to who what,when,where ,why ,how or timeline.Ergo we are self banning,and TBH they were obviously thinking a 0 to 2000 application wave like the handguns.

    Minister signs new Statutory Instrument re-defining non-restricted handguns
    Done and we are living with it,shooting away,A stupid bit of legislation as a bit of duct tape and some practise would negate any disadvantage anyone might have,were they doing somthing bad.

    · An Garda Síochána to establish centralised licensing system for restricted firearms

    PR bull****e,as event the antiquated PULSE system can drag up that info.IOW it isnt that badly broke to need fixing.

    · Garda Inspectorate to review the administration of firearms licensing

    Never done either ,as Frannie had pulled thier balls out of the very hot fire of their own making,and its hardly likely Charlie will want to go near that big tub of worms of Garda mismanagement and general incompetence and corruption as the force stands now.

    · Re-establishment of Firearms Consultative Panel

    Done,but we hardly hear much about it.
    ·IOW we can tell them,how about keeping all these promises to streamline the whole affair before considering regulating stuff first?






    Then there is the new Garda Commissioner's guidelines in which he states:

    S
    o on that basis anyone can go and get a restricted semi auto rifle as there is currently no law to prevent it. However if and when such legislation comes in it will be backdated to the Minister's original statement, and so stand revoked
    .

    Exactly,but when that might be,if ever is anyones guess.So do you want to risk it for a biscut and shoot a gun you'd like to shoot,or sit and engage in "whatifery"?:)
    I've said this from day one, and also said it's a self imposed ban (no argument on that front), but it's still effective because who will buy knowing it will be lost at some point.

    I will,but thats just me,as life is too damn short to not do things you want to do. I dunno,the M1 carbine lads in gallery seem to be growing in number??So they must be granting liscenses?

    I was told the same thing on the semi auto ban, and it's gone form a statement to a declaration of intent.
    The question might seem benign, and may end up being nothing, but i don't trust TDs, and they have reasons for everything they do. As you pointed out it coincides with the finding of the pistol, which i spoke about, but its chance to score more brownie points at our expense. Call it cautious apprehension.

    FACT! I wouldnt trust that lot not to steal the pennies off their parents corpses eyes at a wake.I'd still like to know who asked the Dail question mind...TBH I think there is easier and now fruit at ground level for them to pick now with the grandiose Stalinesque 7 year plans of Leo and that knobhead Shane Ross,to get us out of our cars and onto busses while driving a laughable technological cul de sac called the electric car.
    They got the general licenses re-instated. When was the last time we got something repealed?

    At the loss of;
    MARS and lever action rifles,oddly shaped knives painted green/red with "Zombie" written on them,massive media attacks on IPSC shooting and "combat style shotguns" and ".22assault rifles".Another review in July /August on the situation with the above three items and possible further restriction/banning there.Not to mind,that the Home office and CPO office had been planning for the last five years to get rid of MARS/Lever release,as they were a legal way to tell the UK SA ban to go jump.We only got 6 months with the handgun ban,they had years to enter into consultations and deal with this problem.

    Their main organisation trumpeting the success of saving the 50 Cal rifles in the UK,and the UK banning bumpstocks...:rolleyes:Congrats!!! you saved about 200 people shooting an ultra niche sport in the UK and are applauding banning an item for which no legal firearm in the UK will work with.While dumping disabled shooters who could use MARS/Lever release under the bus.The UK s now the only country int the EU that discriminates against disabled people who are shooters.
    The only reason this has been changed back is.This was a missile straight into Fudd UK shooter countrys homeland,and the fact this is what happens when you listen to emotive table thumpers. That riled them to actually do something and showed the UK Fudd lobby ,that their SXS and .22s are NOT immune from attack either...Whether they take that lesson aboard remains to be seen.

    Us OTOH,
    Still have .22 pistols,still have CF pistols,still have semi auto CF.Dont have any laws demanding our knives are any particular shape or colour making them more dangerous ,or have doctors demanding our kitchen cutlery be rounded off to prevent stabbings.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/840634/Ban-kitchen-knives-pointed-doctor-deadly-knife-crime.
    Depends on your outlook I guess,but I would say IRL has a slight edge on the UK still in sanity on firearms and knife matters.
    I don't know what is scarier. The fact they are quiet....................... or the fact they are quiet.

    Or they know they are now toxic goods and no one will go near them ,and have quietly gone into the good night?



    You do know what court of record means? No precedent set, therefore no
    Of course I'm open to correction if someone can show me that DCs are not court of records.

    Correct,but as you know in Ireland,there is the law and "THE LAW" as my junior counsel told me,and you have to know which one you deal with here in legal proceedings.;)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1191
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Wonder how long it will be here before our criminals figure out this is the way to go?Its easy to liscense and restrict an item that takes some skill to make and manufacture.But if the technology is available to everyone,liscensing becomes virtually impossible.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-48695173?fbclid=IwAR23aer2MP2iDXsExgYSGWnAAU1Mx0lwvez9uS8ZeJVTDPLQGnlXlqwCBD4

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • #1192
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And from your post.
    This has been happening since we started this little back and forth. Do you not read or understand my posts? Not being rude or ignorant, but i've not once said the ban is anything other than self imposed.

    However a self imposed ban, under the threat of a looming one, is still a ban. As i said to you earlier about 99% not going to court, 100% of people won't take the chance with the threat of a real ban looming.
    Exactly,but when that might be,if ever is anyones guess.So do you want to risk it for a biscut and shoot a gun you'd like to shoot,or sit and engage in "whatifery"?:)
    The ban might come in soon or not at all, but with the threat of it looming who in their right mind would fork out between €1,500 to €3,500 for a semi auto rifle knowing that at any point if a ban is introduced it's gone.

    I don't blame anyone for not taking that chance.

    Those already with them will be grandfathered to avoid compensation, and they'll die away like the C/F pistols with enough time.
    So they must be granting liscenses?
    Again i never said they were not being licensed, and how could they not grant them as there is no ban/law to prevent licensing them.
    Depends on your outlook I guess,but I would say IRL has a slight edge on the UK still in sanity on firearms and knife matters.
    Wouldn't argue with any of that, and i even said as much myself before, but they have a larger voting block (per head of capita), and much better funded organisations. While i won't pretend to know the infighting, etc that obviously goes on, on the front it seems much better organised and coherent than our own groups as per the actions documented on this forum over the years.
    Or they know they are now toxic goods and no one will go near them ,and have quietly gone into the good night?
    Yeeeaaaahhhhhhhhh.........................


    I've missed a lot of the post because i cannot distinguish between what you're saying and what might be quotations from me or other sources.

    I assume the suppressor issue is done with too?
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  • #1193
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Grizzly - you wrote - 'Depends on your outlook I guess,but I would say IRL has a slight edge on the UK still in sanity on firearms and knife matters.'

    Agreed in general, apart from the ludicrous licensing methods employed, the apparent hatred of firearms moderators, the woeful ignorance of people who ought to know a whole lot more about actual guns, rather than how to place more restrictions on them, the lack of general reloading, the looney restrictions placed on the number of airgun pellets that can legally be held, the empty cases count as live rounds thing, the nationwide prohibition on black powder firearms except for blank-firing reenactors, the 'Sure an' I don't like the look of dat' mentality, the limitations on handguns that make them five rounds only, or ten rounds for a long arm, the banning of so-called bull-pup arms of any kind, the total absence of any kind of IPSC or practical shotgun shooting, the restrictions on night-shooting equipment that uses a laser, ...............

    Yup, you've got it made.


  • #1194
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    tac foley wrote: »
    Grizzly - you wrote - 'Depends on your outlook I guess,but I would say IRL has a slight edge on the UK still in sanity on firearms and knife matters.'

    Agreed in general, apart from the ludicrous licensing methods employed, the apparent hatred of firearms moderators, the woeful ignorance of people who ought to know a whole lot more about actual guns, rather than how to place more restrictions on them, the lack of general reloading, the looney restrictions placed on the number of airgun pellets that can legally be held, the empty cases count as live rounds thing, the nationwide prohibition on black powder firearms except for blank-firing reenactors, the 'Sure an' I don't like the look of dat' mentality, the limitations on handguns that make them five rounds only, or ten rounds for a long arm, the banning of so-called bull-pup arms of any kind, the total absence of any kind of IPSC or practical shotgun shooting, the restrictions on night-shooting equipment that uses a laser, ...............

    Yup, you've got it made.


    Compared to coppers in Notts handing out rounded kitchen ware to prevent domestic stabbings with pointed knives? I know our lot arent the sharpest tools in the set either...But seriously??? OK we dont have IPSC or BP and just as thick&biased people in charge of liscensing as you UK lot,but we still hve 3things the UK lost,which seems to be a big craw drive in the UK,that us "paddies"still have stuff we cant."So in logisticswe would be to the UK slightly ahead.Inadmin and procedures,IRL/UK is on par. With losing stuff the UK is drawing ahead.You more thn likely ,unless major **** getting together action occurs between now and end of July,will face further restrictions on .22 semi autos and box fed shotguns and IPSC.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1195
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I guess we'll call it a draw, then......I have to admit that the madmen really do seem to be taking over the asylum with regard to the blunt knife thing - you couldn't make up something that stupid if you tried.


  • #1196
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    This has been happening since we started this little back and forth. Do you not read or understand my posts? Not being rude or ignorant, but i've not once said the ban is anything other than self imposed
    .

    I read your epistiles with the greatest of my attention...And yes,I/we have quite got that message,but in this case could you refer to the points I took "from your posts" RE all the stuff that was mentioned in your link perhaps?
    However a self imposed ban, under the threat of a looming one, is still a ban. As i said to you earlier about 99% not going to court, 100% of people won't take the chance with the threat of a real ban looming.

    "Looming" being the operative word,and also the imprecise definition.It might happen or it might not happen in our lifetimes,[or at least mine] We had the same looming threat with the TCO 72 that if we pushed we'd loose everything,and it only took 32 years for us to call the bluff.
    The ban might come in soon or not at all, but with the threat of it looming who in their right mind would fork out between €1,500 to €3,500 for a semi auto rifle knowing that at any point if a ban is introduced it's gone.

    WHERE ARE you shopping at those prices??:DThats cheap for some brands.Try 4to 5k for SIG,or 500 euro for a Ruger mini 14 or 300 to 700 for an SKS or m1 carbine is all I'd be paying to import Actually at the moment the AR platform is at its cheapest ever in history.You can get a Palmetto state Armoury .308 kit for under 500 usd,from our US gun parts monopoly here in Ireland.Even building one from Egun parts would allow you to put one together for under a grand here. Agreed,its not like going off and buying a single shot Baikal for 50 quid,it's part of the game that you have to put your money down and take your chances if you want to be a player.

    I don't blame anyone for not taking that chance.
    Neither do I,but then you are not entitled to bemoan the fact that you cant own one either when you can.
    Those already with them will be grandfathered to avoid compensation, and they'll die away like the C/F pistols with enough time.

    Exactly,so talk of bans on types isnt in the Govts best intrest.short of maybe post a Doomsday event like a mass shooting here.But you can be assured then EVERYONE wont be safe in that case,no matter what type of a gun you have.
    Again i never said they were not being licensed, and how could they not grant them as there is no ban/law to prevent licensing them.

    Yup called an oxymoron.

    Wouldn't argue with any of that, and i even said as much myself before, but they have a larger voting block (per head of capita), and much better funded organisations. While i won't pretend to know the infighting, etc that obviously goes on, on the front it seems much better organised and coherent than our own groups as per the actions documented on this forum over the years.

    Not by a long shot.Where we had Sparks famous spidergram of the Irish shooting orgs,were you to do it with the UK,it would look like a modern artwork.Utterly indecipherable, with who is in charge of what.They actually have wayy too many orgs who are perpetually infighting and in a state of flux and alliances and doing each other in.This actually has happened because of "we need another organisationitis" Plus the utter Fuddism that permates the whole hunting/target shooting factions is horrific. We actually are luckyin that sense over here in the ROI,after the upheavels over thelast decade,we kind of ejected our Job for lifers and Fudds out of the organisations,and dont really have the looking down the nose at others as much as the UK has.


    I've missed a lot of the post because i cannot distinguish between what you're saying and what might be quotations from me or other sources.

    Cleaned it up about five times,so apologies if you missed anything.


    I assume the suppressor issue is done with too
    ?

    Guess so,unless you want to add anything else to the silencer/suppressor issue?:P

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #1197
    oldgit1897
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    I wondered what the virtue signallers who run this dump were going to do next after they finished messing around with gays/abortion/destroying marriage referenda etc. It seems they are going to ban the sale of internal combustion engined cars in 11 years time. It will be a great success like Irish water and the Shell gas field off the west coast were.

    So 2030, no more ICE cars.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-7157779/Irish-government-plans-ban-sale-new-petrol-diesel-cars-2030.html#newcomment


  • #1198
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    RE all the stuff that was mentioned in your link perhaps?
    Must check that link because it's only a few lines, i didn't think it said all that.
    "Looming" being the operative word,and also the imprecise definition.
    Looming - appear as a vague form, especially one that is large or threatening. Seems legit enough to me.
    We had the same looming threat with the TCO 72 that if we pushed we'd loose everything,and it only took 32 years for us to call the bluff.
    32 years!

    We had centrefire, large caliber, rifle, C/F semi autos, etc. all back well within that 32 year period. C/F Pistols were only the last thing and that only lasted a whopping 4 years.
    WHERE ARE you shopping at those prices??:D
    Unless they're free there is a risk, however small, of losing the cost.
    Neither do I,but then you are not entitled to bemoan the fact that you cant own one either when you can.
    True, but i don't know anyone who moans about not having one seeing as how you can still apply for one. It's not like C/F pistols.
    Yup called an oxymoron.
    More like catch 22. Or how about damned if you do, and perhaps damned if you don't.
    Cleaned it up about five times,so apologies if you missed anything.
    Not trying to be a dick, but if it's not in quotes i assume it's you. When i read it and it sounds familiar i realise its mine, then it bleeds into you again.

    Just a small tip. Always make sure there are quotation marks on either side of whatever it is the other person is saying you want to quote/highlight. It's this icon quote.gif or you can manually type them in using the quote in brackets with the desired text within the markers, like this,
    TEXT [//quote] (just use one backslash. I only used two to stop it quoting).
    Guess so,unless you want to add anything else to the silencer/suppressor issue?:P
    Nah, i think everyone has had quite enough of it.
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  • #1199
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    oldgit1897 wrote: »
    I wondered what the virtue signallers who run this dump were going to do next after they finished messing around with gays/abortion/destroying marriage referenda etc.
    I'd hardly call any of that "messing around with". They are all serious issues, regardless of personal beliefs on each topic.
    I wondered what the virtue signallers who run this dump were going to do next...........

    On the subject of banning all cars i have a few questions:
    • What happens the €5 BILLION in revenue that excise, VRT and VAT on cars brings in?
    • What about road tax revenue as EVs have no emissions so pay the minimum road tax of €120.
    • What about the revenue from fuel sales?
    • With an estimated 1,100 charing points around the country what are the plans to increase this number to accommodate for the millions of cars that will need them?
    • What about the cost of EV cars with the Government grant scheme due to end in 2021 (2 years, and cheaper cars starting at €30,000, the average ones at €50,000 and others into the €90,000 mark.)
    • What about people that cannot afford a new car?
    • What about rural areas that in this day and age don't even have bus services let alone charging points.
    • What happens when the batteries have expired?
    • How are the batteries disposed off?
    • Has anyone calculated the total carbon footprint from producing electric cars compared to the lifetime output of an internal combustion engine?
    • How about the mining of minerals, and the child labour used, that strips the land?

    The biggest question i always have is where does the magic fairy dust that runs these eco friendly cars going to come from. Ireland relies heavily on solid fuel and natural for generating electricity.

    In America last year 0.97% of the countries electrical needs were met with wind powered turbines, 0.75% with solar panels while in the same period consumption rose by 2.9%, and coal/fossil fuels still account for 70.8% of total generation.

    Germany re-opeing two coal fuel plants because their "green dream" failed miserably.

    So where is the power coming from?
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  • #1200
    oldgit1897
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Cass wrote: »
    I'd hardly call any of that "messing around with". They are all serious issues, regardless of personal beliefs on each topic.

    On the subject of banning all cars i have a few questions:
    • What happens the €5 BILLION in revenue that excise, VRT and VAT on cars brings in?
    • What about road tax revenue as EVs have no emissions so pay the minimum road tax of €120.
    • What about the revenue from fuel sales?
    • With an estimated 1,100 charing points around the country what are the plans to increase this number to accommodate for the millions of cars that will need them?
    • What about the cost of EV cars with the Government grant scheme due to end in 2021 (2 years, and cheaper cars starting at €30,000, the average ones at €50,000 and others into the €90,000 mark.)
    • What about people that cannot afford a new car?
    • What about rural areas that in this day and age don't even have bus services let alone charging points.
    • What happens when the batteries have expired?
    • How are the batteries disposed off?
    • Has anyone calculated the total carbon footprint from producing electric cars compared to the lifetime output of an internal combustion engine?
    • How about the mining of minerals, and the child labour used, that strips the land?

    The biggest question i always have is where does the magic fairy dust that runs these eco friendly cars going to come from. Ireland relies heavily on solid fuel and natural for generating electricity.

    In America last year 0.97% of the countries electrical needs were met with wind powered turbines, 0.75% with solar panels while in the same period consumption rose by 2.9%, and coal/fossil fuels still account for 70.8% of total generation.

    Germany re-opeing two coal fuel plants because their "green dream" failed miserably.

    So where is the power coming from?



    Its a case of announce something first with great fanfare, and then cop on later (if not before) that its all horse feathers. It seems to be the way this country is run now, for getting likes on facebook or social media like a teenage girl.

    As you say a lot of this green stuff is pure fairy tales. The Germans closed a huge amount of their power generation because it was old technology and started using gas, russian gas, then they copped the fact that putin had them by the short hairs.


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  • #1201
    solarwinds
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    The only consumables an EV uses is electricity, tyres and road tax. The only way the government can make up the shortfall from the tax on fuel is to hike up the prices of the above items.
    So get everyone to buy EV then punish them for doing so. Never mind how are you going to produce all this extra electricity to run your homes, your heating, your cooking and your car its how do you distribute it. The network in an awful lot of areas will not cope with that extra pressure. Then we will have higher electricity prices as the network needs upgrading.
    Its like the fiasco with the diesel cars they told us all to buy years ago because that was the greener option, then they screwed us on the road tax.
    The latest fad is EV with no thought as usual as to implementation of them.
    Every day we are becoming more reliant on Europe and losing our own independence and self sufficiency. We now import most of our food from there which is a joke and now we are looking at importing our power as well with a proposed connector to France. In my view again its the long game in time we will be 100% reliant on imports from Europe at the cost of our own industry which they are slowly but surely chipping away at.
    And now I see calls from one of our elected monkeys looking to introduce National Service for the youth, shortly after France have talked about bringing it back. Sounds to me like its opening the door for their common EU army, its a long shot I know but something in the back of my mind is telling me that in time we will be sending our kids to Germany for 6 months military training for our new EU army.
    Now today's rant over.


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