'Farming'.

Wait for the “mmmm bacon” and the indignant “but trespassing” trolls, they’ll be along shortly, auspicious.

auspicious wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtd_NS9-Q4

I wonder, how long does the sow in the farrowing crate at the end of the clip gnaw on that metal bar, daily?
Being quite an intelligent animal, it (she) must realise that the piglet's death throes are unnatural...

Sound didn't add anything.

As i said in another thread, Earthling Ed is either an idiot or willing to say anything to further his cause due to his promotion of veg as a cure for cancer.

But in this case was he too big of an idiot to highlight the suffering of the piglet to the farmer so a vet could be called or happy to exploit its suffering to push his agenda?

auspicious wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtd_NS9-Q4I wonder, how long does the sow in the farrowing crate at the end of the clip gnaw on that metal bar, daily?
Being quite an intelligent animal, it (she) must realise that the piglet's death throes are unnatural...

Dont think that is a farrowing crate tbh. The side footage of the pig in that video appears to be a temporary holding crate used when a pig is being treated by a farmer etc and not a sow in a farrowing crate - although its hard to see from the angle of the video footage tbh.

I took a look at the selected video footage and tbh the pigs look healthy and are not stressed etc even with the presence of so many strangers. As to the piglet- it is sleeping imo and is confirmed by a second piglet in the footage also apparently sleeping (and twitching) behind the first one. When piglets sleep they completely flake out. The movements imo are not 'death throws' (sic)

The other point is that the farrowing crates are normally used for I believe a period of six weeks and are used to protect the piglets from being rolled on and potentially killed by the sow.

There are raft of welfare regulations relating to pigs in the UK and Europe

For example see:
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/news/highlighting-the-differences-how-uk-welfare-standards-compare-with-our-competitors.html

It should be noted that some farmers use other systems to farrowing crates

Note: Interesting footage in that video of the police moving said activists. So yes indeed there would appear to be some issues relating to trespassing when 40 or so strangers and invade a working farm.

Question for David. How would you feel if a large group invaded your farm and proceeded to walk over your vegetable beds etc, take video footage and investigate whether anything interesting or illegal might be going on?

auspicious wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtd_NS9-Q4

I wonder, how long does the sow in the farrowing crate at the end of the clip gnaw on that metal bar, daily?
Being quite an intelligent animal, it (she) must realise that the piglet's death throes are unnatural...

Hard to tell if its dying, or asleep & dreaming.
If she could reach that piglet, she'd probably eat it herself.
Some sows are cannabalistic, and as well as preventing them accidently lying on a piglet ( crates have a design to make a sow have to give a wriggle before flopping down) the crate stops her snapping at piglets who wander near her mouth.

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Farrowing crates are the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen.

‘Animals run no risk of going to hell, they are there already’Victor Hugo.

The same could be said of the many humans tbh.

So Tilikum would you prefer that piglets in indoor systems are squashed by the sow? Personally I prefer more free range systems but tbh the use of farrowing crates are allowed for a limited period to safeguard piglets. Their use is covered by EU legislation and standards.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While doing nothing to ease its suffering.

^^ This. A lot of footage which is posted online and especially on YouTube rants about the alleged 'horrible' condition of animals in the food industry as if it mattered to them. As far as I can see - it doesn’t matter to them, because whilst many of these these individuals clearly state they are opposed to all rearing and eating of animals, they do nothing to improve the actual conditions which they allege are prevalent.

So the end result is that many of these groups effectively use such footage for monetization but do nothing for the actual animals they portray as 'suffering'.

I find this whole campaign of 'action' to be utterly hypocritical tbh.

We buy our weaned piglets from a small scale operator who sells on DD. I think he has maybe 20 sows, they don’t use farrowing crates.

The walls of the pens are lined with tyres which he says gives piglets room not to be squashed under the sow when she moves. Once they are fit they are all turned out anyway. He does loose an odd one to the sow but not many.

So there is a middle ground between the conditions shown and the “turn all the animals free and let’s eat a salad” mantra.

Many of the issues highlighted in such videos are related to very intensive farming practice. As a farmer it’s not something that appeals to me at all, I much rather see free range style lower densitity farms. Yes the produce is more expensive but that’s ok, it better reflects the intrinsic value of the produce.

Meat shouldn’t be cheap, that’s a race to the bottom for both farmers and animal welfare.

I think at the end of the day the problem is that the vegan movement won’t accept even the highest standards of animal farming.

Saying they are highlighting these pig farms because farrowing crates are being used is disingenuous. If they had turned up and the sows were in stalls with the piglets there would have been a commotion about that too. Same if they were 100% free range.

I beleive that farmers need to be held to the highest standards, I don’t agree with all the current standards particularly those facilitating industrial farming.
200 strangers tramping onto a farm where bio security is important and making a general nuisance of themselves with the farmer isn’t the way to go. Using their influence to have better welfare standards implemented would have much more positive effects on animals lives.

However, the crux of the issue is that the vegan movement have no interest in better farming practice, there is no tolerance for another way of life other than theirs. The lack of tolerance manifests often in hate campaigns, mis information, abuse both verbal and physical, obstruction of premises, damage to property.

There were more than 3000 reported cases of shocking animal cruelty in Ireland, the vast vast majority in pets and non farmed animals. Yet I don’t see vegan protests against pet ownership, I don’t see vegan groups out harassing pet owners in the street or at their homes, I don’t see them at race courses.

So it seems the intolerance is directed to farming families, remember most farms are homes, invading a farm is invading the home property of a family and desperate stress and anxiety is caused.

It is difficult to see veganism as anything other than a vehicle for intolerance for the views of others.

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Source

You realise that dumping in text and a link isn’t a discussion ?

davidjtaylor wrote: »

With respect, LH, you can't expect vegans to promote any kind of farming.



100%.

Tolerance is all that is asked for, humans have as many viewpoints as there are humans, tolerance and acceptance of the opinion and beliefs of another isn’t that much to ask though.

Good farmers 100% beleive what they are doing is right, moral and justified. It’s done within the relaxant animal welfare laws if the state. I can 100% understand going after those who flout animal welfare laws, I’ve no time for these people either and have reported “farmers” where I came across instances I thought were out of control.

I’ve stated before, the vegan lifestyle isn’t without it’s intentional indiscriminate killing of sentient creatures. But I understand that it’s part of farming crops to do these things.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

How many vegans actually try and grow their own vegetables?
That would cut down a huge amount of packaging, travelling and food waste

To be fair, the question should be asked of everybody, substituting ‘vegan’ with ‘people’ and ‘vegetables’ with ‘food’.

In my experience (having encountered hundreds of them personally), vegans tend towards being more aware of the impact of their food choices.