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08-03-2020, 20:23   #31
Scoondal
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Sinn Fein are not a socialist party. On Saturday 7 March, Irish Socialists protested in Dublin. Sinn Fein was not involved.
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09-03-2020, 01:07   #32
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But the war have had to resume at some point if Hitler wanted to take the "living space" the USSR had in East, and to take control of the oil fields in the Caucasus.
Hard to see that Ireland's neutrality would have been tested in any meaningful way in a war between Germany and the Soviet Union.
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09-03-2020, 01:10   #33
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Would have thought the Blueshirts were far more invested in the Nazis than Sinn Fein.
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09-03-2020, 01:15   #34
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The I.R.A. had a continuing contact with Nazi Germany from the mid 1930s until D-Day.
Before the war, the I.R.A. killed five civilians and wounded seventy in Coventry one week before war was declared.
Tom Barry was very keen about his stay in Berlin in the late 1930s.
We get it, Sinn Fein will steal your precious bodily fluids something something.


Lefties BAD

Fine Gael GOOD.
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09-03-2020, 01:20   #35
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Would have thought the Blueshirts were far more invested in the Nazis than Sinn Fein.
The Blueshirts had a lot of the trappings of Fascism - the shirts, the salutes, the corporate state ideology. Though it has to be said they were much closer to/more influenced by Mussolinin and the Italian Fascists than they ever were by Hitler and the Nazis.

But the IRA of the 1930s were arguably quicker to adopt Nazi political tactics of street violence, use of force against political activity that they disliked or against the agents of the democratic state, etc, etc. In fact, a bit like the Nazis in the early 1930s, the IRA was divided between socialists and militarists. Unlike the Nazis, the socialists in the movement weren't murdered, but they largely left or were purged, leaving a more old-fashioned militant nationalist IRA which, in the event, couldn't secure much in the way of popular support, and became a pretty marginal and flakey group.

So, if you're looking for parallels in Ireland with broader European fascism in the 1930s, you'll find some parallels in the Blueshirts; others in the IRA.
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09-03-2020, 01:21   #36
Scoondal
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Would have thought the Blueshirts were far more invested in the Nazis than Sinn Fein.
There you go. You can learn a lot from history. IRA were connected, the "Blueshirts" were just a populist movement with no real connections with Nazi Germany.
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09-03-2020, 01:32   #37
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There you go. You can learn a lot from history. IRA were connected, the "Blueshirts" were just a populist movement with no real connections with Nazi Germany.
In so far as the Blueshirts had any overseas connections or model, it was the Italian Fascists, and not the German Nazis. Recall that in the early 1930s Italian fascism was the dominant model of fascism, having been in power in Italy for about a decade, while the Nazis had only just succeeded in forming part of a coalition government in Germany.

Their only active international connection was attendance at the Montreux Fascist Conference in 1934, but we can't really treat that as a link with Naziism, since the Nazi party wasn't represented there. Shortly afterwards the Blueshirts fell apart, and we can only speculate what attitude they would have taken to the Nazis when the Nazis became the leading Fascist movement in Europe some years later.
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09-03-2020, 01:41   #38
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The I.R.A. had a continuing contact with Nazi Germany from the mid 1930s until D-Day.
Before the war, the I.R.A. killed five civilians and wounded seventy in Coventry one week before war was declared.
Tom Barry was very keen about his stay in Berlin in the late 1930s.
It was the 30's ,,
The enemy of my enemy is my friend,,, you can thank them later..
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09-03-2020, 19:13   #39
BalcombeSt4
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Hard to see that Ireland's neutrality would have been tested in any meaningful way in a war between Germany and the Soviet Union.
Yeah, it's hard to see that, I think the USSR would have won the war tho.

Would have been interesting as well as tragic to have seen how a British Resistance would have faired against a German Occupation of Britain. We learned in recent years that thousands of guerrilla units were set up all over towns and villages in Britain in case of German invasion, among them a young Tony Benn.
I wonder would the Free State government have given help to a British Resistance.

And even tho Britain would have been knocked out of the war, would the Empire armies of India, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia & Canada not have continued fighting for the Empire?
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09-03-2020, 19:24   #40
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercul...Plant_Disaster


52 people killed bby the IRA in the states during WW2 ,

if that aint a link I don't know what is
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09-03-2020, 19:35   #41
BalcombeSt4
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There you go. You can learn a lot from history. IRA were connected, the "Blueshirts" were just a populist movement with no real connections with Nazi Germany.
But whats your point?

The IRA was also connected to Qaddafi's Libya, and they recieved much more weapons from the Middle East, from Libya, Lebanon & the PLO, but the IRA was never intending to set-up an Islamic Republic of Ireland.
Just like they weren't intending to set-up a Capitalist Republic on Steriods after gaining large amounts of M1 Carbines, AR-15's, M-16's, AR-18's & M60's from close connections to Irish-American gun-runners.
Just like they were not intending to create a Irish Colony for the German Empire after they gained about 1,000 rifles & some pistols from Germany in preperation for the Easter Rising.
Just like they were not intending on creating a Nazi or Fascist Ireland because of a link to Nazi Germany in the 1930's that did not result in the IRA been given any sort of arsenal of weapons. It was probably one of the weakest links the IRA had in the in the 20th century, they even recieved more weapons from links in Belgium, Norway & Holland.
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09-03-2020, 19:35   #42
riffmongous
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercul...Plant_Disaster


52 people killed bby the IRA in the states during WW2 ,

if that aint a link I don't know what is
Going to ask for a reference for that. The wiki ref isn't available to view
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09-03-2020, 19:58   #43
BalcombeSt4
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Sinn Fein are not a socialist party. On Saturday 7 March, Irish Socialists protested in Dublin. Sinn Fein was not involved.
They probably are not a Socialist party anymore. Now their closer to a Social Democrat party. Was the IRSP at the event?

But certainly they were a Socialist party in the 70's, 80's & 90's. The Republican Movement, which was Sinn Fein & the PIRA, stated time & time again from 1970 - 1994 that their ultimate aim was a 32C Democratic Socialist Republic, and this was stated by all the big names in the IRA Gerard Hodgkins, Brendan Hughes, Tommy McKearney, Ivor Bell etc...
And the IRA's military strategy in rural areas in the 1980's in Fermanagh, East Tyrone & South Armagh/Down was more inspired by the likes of General Giap, Chairman Mao, Castro & Che Guevara, more than it was by people like Collins, Pearce, Frank Aikien etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provis...7;27s_strategy

Last edited by BalcombeSt4; 09-03-2020 at 20:01.
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11-03-2020, 01:05   #44
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There you go. You can learn a lot from history. IRA were connected, the "Blueshirts" were just a populist movement with no real connections with Nazi Germany.
This must warm your heart
http://www.rebelnews.ie/2018/06/25/t...-of-fine-gael/
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16-03-2020, 14:01   #45
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Here you go, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_..._collaboration. So whats going to be next, the I.R.A and Sinn Fein lured Jesus to his death?. You know when people are scared when this is what they resort to.

The likes of De Valera and the IRA at that time makes me ashamed of my Irish ancestry....De Valera may have ensured a tiny legislative niche for Jews in Ireland but the overall neutrality policy was abhorrent.

As they would say in Ireland at that time "Who is it that we will be neutral against this year? ".
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