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How bad or good is alcohol for society

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  • Registered Users Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Neames


    Alcohol like so many other ''evils'' of the world doesn't become a problem until the wrong person gets there hands on it and abuses it!

    Exactly, I know a guy who drank one, it became four and when he fell on the floor he drank more.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Jasiah Quaint Barber


    Neames wrote: »
    Exactly, I know a guy who drank one, it became four and when he fell on the floor he drank more.

    I think its deeper than that. Majority of people have a much higher tolerance than they did in their first few years of drinking, is that acquiring the taste or falling further into addiction like when a user first takes a drug

    Also we all know people who are sound without drink and turn at a certain point. Is that emotional buildup, possibly, is the person an asshole, no cos the person is normal without it, so to blame the person over the substance is wrong. Addiction is a terrible thing, just cos it takes someone a lot longer to hit the bottom shouldn't matter


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Ah was waiting for it. We've definitely been conditioned to only associate alcohol with fun. Don't know how children have far more fun than us without any desire for a drug.

    Been reading a lot of unconscious conditioning that begins in early childhood. The wheel keeps turning as this generation had been conditioned to thinking drinking is an adult fun thing cos they see their parents doing it, the cycle continues until the chain is broke

    Society needs a replacement social scene
    Ever notice how children seem to have more fun when they're full of sugar. Sugar is the drug of choice for kids. Humans of all ages seem to love chemicals that alter our brains for some reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Too much alcohol can be bad


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Munsterman12


    Would Ireland be a better place if alcohol didnt exist? Easy to answer that one


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  • Posts: 0 Brayden Icy Hawk


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    I’d sAy your great crack

    I'm still waiting for you to finish that sentence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,386 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And that there is the brain washing, you didnt need or want wine with the same meal when you were younger. I used drink whiskey, and the amount of nonsense people came out with, the only difference I saw was the expensive ones had a less harsh after taste and you didnt start drinking whisky, you forced yourself to acquire the taste
    remember first drinking Guinness and i hated it, my brother told me to persevere and after a few nights I would like it better. He was right but it seems mad now to think I forced a drink I didnt like so after a while I would like it. Sounds like hard mentality

    I didnt want sex either when I was 7. Dunno how the human race survives.
    Herd mentality... you sound like the one who is trying to brainwash people!

    Utterly incorrect concept just because you dont value sth as a kid you must be brainwashed. Nonsense.
    Or just because sth needs a bit of effort to appreciate it then its not worth appreciating.
    Driving a car or learning a skill is pretty tough at the start.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Alcohol a total disaster for society, definitely very damaging and is s strong counter argument to those who would legalize more drugs.
    Economic productivity is hit hugely by alcohol, thousands of people killed by drunk drivers, go to your local district court and you’ll see it’s a factor in many if not most assaults.
    It’s good craic at an individual level though, while you are drinking.


  • Posts: 0 Brayden Icy Hawk


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    In all risks mortalities studies moderate drinkers have the best outcomes.

    Untrue, and at best old thinking. The extensive evidence against this "moderate drinking is OK" line has been widely reported upon in the past year:

    No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    achieving altered states of consciousness is a perfectly valid approach when faced with the realities of the human condition.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    I need a a few as social lubrication, I'm far too self consciousness too enjoy myself sober.


  • Posts: 0 Brayden Icy Hawk


    Ah was waiting for it. We've definitely been conditioned to only associate alcohol with fun. Don't know how children have far more fun than us without any desire for a drug.

    Been reading a lot of unconscious conditioning that begins in early childhood. The wheel keeps turning as this generation had been conditioned to thinking drinking is an adult fun thing cos they see their parents doing it, the cycle continues until the chain is broke

    Society needs a replacement social scene

    Absolutely this. It really is overbearing; the sheer stupidity of a person thinking other people cannot have "fun" without taking alcohol/a drug says so much about the person saying that. What are they running away from, and how pathetic is that?

    If they could all lock themselves in their rooms rather than being an obnoxious and dangerous presence on our streets and on our roads that would be at least one saving grace. Let them at it, there. But they don't, so society must suffer from the innumerable stupid things which are done as a result of this "fun".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Still enjoy a few pints in my late 30s, but have on occasion wondered would I have been better off taking the pledge at 16. No hangovers ever, fewer badly advised liaisons, less embarrassing behavior, but in this culture where would you go to socialize as a college student or in a small town?
    Definitely is some brainwashing, serious peer pressure on teenagers to drink.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Alcohol a total disaster for society, definitely very damaging and is s strong counter argument to those who would legalize more drugs.
    Economic productivity is hit hugely by alcohol, thousands of people killed by drunk drivers, go to your local district court and you’ll see it’s a factor in many if not most assaults.
    It’s good craic at an individual level though, while you are drinking.

    The abuse of alcohol has been a disaster for society, from people I've spoken to that developed a problem with alcohol and drugs, they said that abuse of alcohol did the most damage. You would recover better from years bingeing on opium that you would on alcohol, but alcohol is the culturally entrenched drug.

    Modern life is very stressful though and you only have to go to the pubs in Dublin on a Friday evening and see people releasing a head of steam from the week. Cocaine has been added to the mix in recent years, or a lucky-mix version of cocaine.

    I'm on the fence about legalising drugs, on the one hand I'd prefer to see drug users using 'clean' versions of the substance and I think if more adults used cannabis instead of booze there'd be less social and health problems.

    On the other hand I'm not sure if a lot of people could handle the responsibility, Monday morning absences would probably treble for the first few months :o. Teenagers would still have to use the tainted, illegal gear as the age limit would probably be 21.

    It is interesting though that there's some very prominent people pushing for full drug legalisation lately. They must be eyeing up the business opportunities.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Jasiah Quaint Barber


    To all those thinking I am brainwashing and pushing an agenda, I would still have the odd pint. Where I was all for the craic before I have been questioning it a lot more lately. I see perfectly civilised sound people turn on drink. So they probably think it's a relaxer too but its just masking what's really going on in their lives

    I am seriously thinking of just cutting it out, I see people with kids wasting sundays in the pub and going home drunk with their kids at 9pm, and those kids have school the next morning

    This argument that most can enjoy it also has me questioning it. I remember a guy I knew who hated his dad as he would get home loaded most evenings. His parents split over it, later the dad gave up drink and reconciled to a certain point with his kids. When he died the funeral was jam packed with his drinking buddies proclaiming him to be a mighty man and character.

    The fun and great craic guys aren't always what they seem

    Another guy I served in the pub was like a hero there and still is. He would be preaching to people what's right and wrong and thought he owned the place. Turned out his kids were sleeping on the floor and his name was down for charity beds, his kids turned out to be disasters, yet hes still respected in the pub


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    I love a good clatter of pints. Getting pissed is great fun. Alcohol is an excellent drug. The vast majority of Irish people are excellent drunks as well - chatty and good natured when well oiled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,386 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    To all those thinking I am brainwashing and pushing an agenda, I would still have the odd pint. Where I was all for the craic before I have been questioning it a lot more lately. I see perfectly civilised sound people turn on drink. So they probably think it's a relaxer too but its just masking what's really going on in their lives

    I am seriously thinking of just cutting it out, I see people with kids wasting sundays in the pub and going home drunk with their kids at 9pm, and those kids have school the next morning

    This argument that most can enjoy it also has me questioning it. I remember a guy I knew who hated his dad as he would get home loaded most evenings. His parents split over it, later the dad gave up drink and reconciled to a certain point with his kids. When he died the funeral was jam packed with his drinking buddies proclaiming him to be a mighty man and character.

    The fun and great craic guys aren't always what they seem

    Another guy I served in the pub was like a hero there and still is. He would be preaching to people what's right and wrong and thought he owned the place. Turned out his kids were sleeping on the floor and his name was down for charity beds, his kids turned out to be disasters, yet hes still respected in the pub

    You seem to imagine the above dads would be perfect dads if they'd never touched a drop. I don't believe it for a second. If people can't relax without a drink, they can't relax fullstop.
    We don't know what's really going on with people's lives behind closed doors from social interactions, whether that's pub or a round of golf or whatever.
    Perfect teetotaller guy could be beating his wife.
    Quiet grumpy guy in the pub who never buys a round could be a wonderful carer for a sick kid.
    The relaxed chatty sociable guy at the bar could be a relaxed chatty socialable guy in every thing he does.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    Another guy I served in the pub was like a hero there and still is. He would be preaching to people what's right and wrong and thought he owned the place. Turned out his kids were sleeping on the floor and his name was down for charity beds, his kids turned out to be disasters, yet hes still respected in the pub
    Sounds like my deceased parents. Could afford the pub every night, forgot about the small task of purchasing food for the children at home. We ended up in foster care. Thousands of well wishers at both funerals all the same, to tell me how brilliant they were.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    To all those thinking I am brainwashing and pushing an agenda, I would still have the odd pint. Where I was all for the craic before I have been questioning it a lot more lately. I see perfectly civilised sound people turn on drink. So they probably think it's a relaxer too but its just masking what's really going on in their lives

    I am seriously thinking of just cutting it out, I see people with kids wasting sundays in the pub and going home drunk with their kids at 9pm, and those kids have school the next morning

    This argument that most can enjoy it also has me questioning it. I remember a guy I knew who hated his dad as he would get home loaded most evenings. His parents split over it, later the dad gave up drink and reconciled to a certain point with his kids. When he died the funeral was jam packed with his drinking buddies proclaiming him to be a mighty man and character.

    The fun and great craic guys aren't always what they seem

    Another guy I served in the pub was like a hero there and still is. He would be preaching to people what's right and wrong and thought he owned the place. Turned out his kids were sleeping on the floor and his name was down for charity beds, his kids turned out to be disasters, yet hes still respected in the pub

    I gave it up a few years back . . . I thought I would miss it . . but quite the opposite, I now feel totally liberated from it all. The first 12 months was occasionly hard, but after that it's very easy. I'll never have to drink again now. I can still go to any function I want and have the best of craic, but when it turns into repeat drunken nonsense (as it always does after a certain time of the night ). . . I say my goodbyes, head home, have a nice sleep and wake up as fresh as daisy and really enjoy my next day.

    Also I realise now, that the only thing I really had in common with a lot of my former drinking pals . . was the actual drinking. So I don't miss that life in the slightest.

    Giving up drink is all positives . . . from your wallet, to your physical health, to your sanity . . there's no negatives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I see Diageo have pulled their sponsorship of London Irish RFC over Paddy Jackson. Guinness have been involved with the club for over 40 yrs.

    Taking the moral high ground. Doesn't fit in with their values apparently.


    They've destroyed more lives than any firm in this country. You could cut the irony with a knife.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    I see Diageo have pulled their sponsorship of London Irish RFC over Paddy Jackson. Guinness have been involved with the club for over 40 yrs.

    Taking the moral high ground. Doesn't fit in with their values apparently.


    They've destroyed more lives than any firm in this country. You could cut the irony with a knife.

    People drinking their products have destroyed lives. Many people drinking their products haven't destroyed any. Many people not drinking their products have destroyed lives.

    The common factor is the people destroying lives.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    I see Diageo have pulled their sponsorship of London Irish RFC over Paddy Jackson. Guinness have been involved with the club for over 40 yrs.

    Taking the moral high ground. Doesn't fit in with their values apparently.


    They've destroyed more lives than any firm in this country. You could cut the irony with a knife.

    Not to mention how rotten drunk all parties at that trial were on the night, most of it no doubt from Diageo products. The whole mess never would have happened if they were all sober.


  • Posts: 0 Ivy Modern Rust


    I see Diageo have pulled their sponsorship of London Irish RFC over Paddy Jackson. Guinness have been involved with the club for over 40 yrs.

    Taking the moral high ground. Doesn't fit in with their values apparently.


    They've destroyed more lives than any firm in this country. You could cut the irony with a knife.

    I've enjoyed an occasional sup of stout over the years, while witnessing many of the 'fun' brigade fall by the wayside. Ending up as broken caricatures, with collateral damage inflicted on their families. Therefore I give the neanderthals habitually 'getting pissed' a wide berth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,386 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Not to mention how rotten drunk all parties at that trial were on the night, most of it no doubt from Diageo products. The whole mess never would have happened if they were all sober.

    Or if we banned rugby players.
    But doubtless there would be other messes. Wives get beaten, cars get crashed, sexual assaults happen... all over the 'dry' countries of this world.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 46 Rologyro


    On both sides of my family alcoholism has caused so many problems. Caused the death of two of my relations on one of my parents sides of the family.

    On the other side, an alcoholic father is what I believe led my other parent having emotional problems which affected us growing up.

    What I’m saying is the affects of alcohol can affect generations of a family.

    Ireland doesn’t have a healthy relationship with alcohol, either in the past or now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Nobelium wrote: »
    I gave it up a few years back . . . I thought I would miss it . . but quite the opposite, I now feel totally liberated from it all. The first 12 months was occasionly hard, but after that it's very easy. I'll never have to drink again now. I can still go to any function I want and have the best of craic, but when it turns into repeat drunken nonsense (as it always does after a certain time of the night ). . . I say my goodbyes, head home, have a nice sleep and wake up as fresh as daisy and really enjoy my next day.

    Also I realise now, that the only thing I really had in common with a lot of my former drinking pals . . was the actual drinking. So I don't miss that life in the slightest.

    Giving up drink is all positives . . . from your wallet, to your physical health, to your sanity . . there's no negatives.

    I only drink about 1-2 times a month now, I do enjoy those few times though. I'd mostly drink at home with some music or a movie, I don't like being around messy drunks. If cannabis was legal here and I could get good quality stuff, I'd probably drink less tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    People drinking their products have destroyed lives. Many people drinking their products haven't destroyed any. Many people not drinking their products have destroyed lives.

    The common factor is the people destroying lives.
    I respect that it's a business and consumers have free will but I refuse to take morality lectures off a brewery .

    No more so than I would off a bookmaker or the Philip Morris tobacco Company.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Or if we banned rugby players.
    But doubtless there would be other messes. Wives get beaten, cars get crashed, sexual assaults happen... all over the 'dry' countries of this world.

    I'm not talking about banning anything. Education is a much better route.

    We're so used to it in Ireland, we've forgotten Alcohol is massive contributory factor in Ireland to crime, road accidents, sexual assaults, anti social behavior, physical and mental health problems and a lifetime of domestic problems for families.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Jasiah Quaint Barber


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Or if we banned rugby players.
    But doubtless there would be other messes. Wives get beaten, cars get crashed, sexual assaults happen... all over the 'dry' countries of this world.

    Unfortunately that's life. By your reasoning don't interfere with anything dangerous. Cigarettes weren't the problem it was the people, heroine as a medicine wasnt the problem it was the people getting high from people, gambling isn't the problem, it's the people, Facebook which is a new addiction isnt the problem it's the users who constantly refresh.

    Why oh why do all these legal addiction companies pay so much money to neuroscientists and marketing to figure out how to get into your sub conscious mind. Why do they need to do this? Humans by nature will get addicted to what they perceive as pleasure but the problem is they end up taking more and more to get that pleasure


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,763 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    In my 9 years serving as a Garda I reckon 90% of the people I arrested were either drunk or there was drink involved. I've never arrested anyone because they were so stoned they were a danger to themselves or others, or because they did something criminally illegal while stoned. It just doesn't happen.

    Thinking on my own experiences, drink brought out both the best and worst in me. I haven't had a drink in over a year, not because i'm trying to give it up, but because I just haven't any interest in it anymore. Personally, I think alcohol is the biggest issue in this country, but it makes so much money for the people in power or friends of those that it will never go away.

    I also think alcohol shouldn't be allowed to sponsor sporting (any) events, just like cigarettes back in the days of F1, but that's just my opinion.


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