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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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12357…54

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  • Options
    #122
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/the-real-problem-is-that-the-government-hasnt-built-homes-airbnb-landlord-doesnt-believe-clampdown-will-solve-crisis-37460378.html


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    #123
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    enricoh wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    O lord. There's no point... LOl

    Too many tourists? Well this new law should help get rid of some of them to other countries. Tax on hotels, cafes etc went up 4.5% in the budget, that should help get rid of more.
    Who needs tourists and the money they spend anyway!!
    Sod the tourist industry, let's concentrate on beefing up the homeless industry!

    I think.that comment.was for the poster who.is anti tourists.


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    #124
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,710 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    He just sounds upset and indignant.


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    #125
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,710 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    handlemaster wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/the-real-problem-is-that-the-government-hasnt-built-homes-airbnb-landlord-doesnt-believe-clampdown-will-solve-crisis-37460378.html

    He sounds upset because he invested in 20 properties, is probably ignoring the planning laws and now his 'enterprise' is under threat... His arguement doesn't really stand up.


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    #126
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    handlemaster wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/the-real-problem-is-that-the-government-hasnt-built-homes-airbnb-landlord-doesnt-believe-clampdown-will-solve-crisis-37460378.html

    :pac:

    That guy is either a bit thick or being deliberately obtuse. It does not take a genius to figure out the problems with private dwellings being used as short term lettings, how this is in breach of planning, and the negative effects this has on the housing market.

    The faux concern for Ireland's tourists is cute too. We've heard that one a few times. :) Just missing something about communists, or him not being allowed to do whatever he likes with his property, or he'll just leave them all sitting empty otherwise and we'll have a full house on the bullshit excuses bingo.

    There's really nothing extreme about this. Existing rules are just going to be properly enforced. Chancers have had their day in the sun.


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    #127
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭Nermal


    awec wrote: »
    how this is in breach of planning...

    There's really nothing extreme about this. Existing rules are just going to be properly enforced.

    We know it's in breach of planning. So what? Planning rules are not infallible. In this case, they are not proportionate or justifiable.

    This is a transparent attempt to be seen to be 'doing something' about a lack of building activity. It's also a sop to hotels.

    I hope they're completely ignored, in Dublin and in every other city they're introduced.


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    #128
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Nermal wrote: »
    We know it's in breach of planning. So what? Planning rules are not infallible. In this case, they are not proportionate or justifiable.

    How is it not proportionate or justifiable to expect residential properties to be used for residential purposes?
    Nermal wrote: »
    This is a transparent attempt to be seen to be 'doing something' about a lack of building activity. It's also a sop to hotels.

    I hope they're completely ignored, in Dublin and in every other city they're introduced.

    The lack of building is an issue. But so is the amount of residential properties being used for short-term lets. They're not mutually exclusive. The government should be tackling both. It's a positive that they've started tackling one.


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    #129
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    we definitely need to focus more on housing our own people.


    what's the heck is wrong with this country?



    the locals are housed in hotels and the tourists are occupying our houses!


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    #130
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Nermal wrote: »
    We know it's in breach of planning. So what? Planning rules are not infallible. In this case, they are not proportionate or justifiable.

    This is a transparent attempt to be seen to be 'doing something' about a lack of building activity. It's also a sop to hotels.

    I hope they're completely ignored, in Dublin and in every other city they're introduced.
    They are easily both of these things.

    I don't know where this notion that building more houses is the sole solution to Ireland's housing problem. That is part of the solution, as is ensuring that housing stock is used appropriately. No point building loads more houses if they'll end up bought by investors and stuck on AirBnB or whatever.

    The landlords affected here haven't got a leg to stand on and they know it. Hence why they are bleating on about tourists, cleaners losing their jobs and other nonsense.


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    #131
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    Depends on how you perceive Civil Matter or categorise it. If I stayed in hotel and didn't pay at the end would it then be Civil.

    Absolutely a terrible idea. There are perfectly good means to enforce judgment against an individual currently through the courts. In addition, there definitely should be an easier process to remove tenants for non-payment of rent. These two combined should alleviate the problems around tenants who don't pay rent.

    These Airbnb measures have resulted in, yet again, people targeting the wrong people with their frustration at the current crisis. For me, the key cause of the housing crisis was the actions of NAMA. Swathes of land were sold throughout Dublin city and were then only utilised to build office space. So few apartments have been built throughout Dublin, especially in GCD and the north docks, which should have been primed for apartments blocks. Yet, there were no stipulatios for using the land for residential purposes when NAMA sold it off to large institutional investors and therefore they just went off building office space. The few apartments that are built are more likely to be corporate lets in the prime Dublin city areas. This is absolutely the fault of the government and previous government.


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    #132
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    Depends on how you perceive Civil Matter or categorise it. If I stayed in hotel and didn't pay at the end would it then be Civil.

    If you never intended to pay for your hotel when you checked in that would be criminal (if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt!)

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/7/enacted/en/html

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/6/enacted/en/html

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/8/enacted/en/html

    If you checked into a hotel intending to pay but then found you were unable to pay when it came time to check out, and told teh reception so but said i will pay you when I can, that would be civil. In contrast if you fill a car in a petrol station and intentionally drive off without paying or if you dine and dash, that could be criminal under the last one above.

    Similarly if you enter a lease but don't intend at the time to pay the rent that would (already) be a criminal matter (good luck proving it in any circumstances short of maybe a recording of the accused saying to someone before he entered the lease that he had no intention of paying rent)

    However if you run into money trouble and can no longer afford to pay the rent when it falls due that is civil.

    Criminal convictions for simple non payment of rent is a victorian concept similar to debtors prisons. Sometimes people can't afford to repay their debts.


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    #133
    Gerinspain
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Gerinspain


    Bob24 wrote: »
    To be honest, the simple fact of forcing people to register with a public authority, forcing the main short-term rental platforms to collect that registration number for all their ads and sharing them with the authority, and cross-referencing those datasets would provide any good initial level of enforcement for a very minimal cost.

    This is not reinventing the wheel either as many other cities/countries have such system in place already (meaning that most likely Airbnb’s IT systems already support this, and they would just have to flick the switch for Ireland).

    This is done in Spain. I have a friend who was renting out a chalet and she had to provide all the required licences to Air bnb before being accepted as a host.


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    #134
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Just for the anti tourist posters. Over 286000 people employed in tourism in ireland. We are at the higher cost end for tourist destinations . If people doing air b nb are keeping hotel and B&B prices in check then good. When the next financial crisies comes we will be very glad for this sector. But let's not think this move by the government is going to do anything for the current housing situation its just a deflection from the cause. .. lack of building in the correct areas.


    https://www.tourismireland.com/Research/Overseas-Tourism-and-Tourism-Ireland-Key-Facts


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    #135
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    "Give up your homes to support a tourist" isn't a particularly compelling campaign to be honest.


  • Options
    #136
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Graham wrote: »
    "Give up your homes to support a tourist" isn't a particularly compelling campaign to be honest.

    Whos property are you talking about ? Do what you want with your own.


  • Options
    #137
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Graham wrote: »
    "Give up your homes to support a tourist" isn't a particularly compelling campaign to be honest.

    Whos property are you talking about ? Do what you want with your own.


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    #138
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Whos property are you talking about ? Do what you want with your own.

    Subject to planning permission :)

    Seriously though, you're going to have a hard time convincing much of the population that housing should be turned into tourist accommodation for the benefit of the tourist industry.


  • Options
    #139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graham wrote: »
    Subject to planning permission :)

    Seriously though, you're going to have a hard time convincing much of the population that housing should be turned into tourist accommodation for the benefit of the tourist industry.

    Well, if all those AirBnB whole properties were returned for private use, the tourists could stay in hotels and BnBs. Or even in people’s spare bedrooms.


  • Options
    #140
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Just for the anti tourist posters. Over 286000 people employed in tourism in ireland. We are at the higher cost end for tourist destinations . If people doing air b nb are keeping hotel and B&B prices in check then good. When the next financial crisies comes we will be very glad for this sector. But let's not think this move by the government is going to do anything for the current housing situation its just a deflection from the cause. .. lack of building in the correct areas.


    https://www.tourismireland.com/Research/Overseas-Tourism-and-Tourism-Ireland-Key-Facts


    No point having all these tourists if the people working in the tourism industry can't find affordable places to live.....because all the houses are being rented to tourists.


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    #141
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    circular flexing wrote: »
    No point having all these tourists if the people working in the tourism industry can't find affordable places to live.....because all the houses are being rented to tourists.

    Dingle was covered by a roving radio reporter. Publicans and restaurants complaining they cannot get staff while they are renting the attached properties and rooms upstairs on air bnb. Locals can’t pay those prices, not on a lowly hospitality wage


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    #142
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Graham wrote: »
    Subject to planning permission :)

    Seriously though, you're going to have a hard time convincing much of the population that housing should be turned into tourist accommodation for the benefit of the tourist industry.

    totally agree.
    it's not that people are anti-tourist but people are rightly more concerned about our homeless citizens.

    is that such an awful thing? if so, then shoot me.


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    #143
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Whos property are you talking about ? Do what you want with your own.

    The poster said homes though and not properties, which is not exactly the same thing.

    The point being that it would be hard to convince voters that at a time where we have a housing crisis it makes sense for residential units to be used as commercial short term letting units (in contradiction with planning permission). And someone wouldn’t have to be “anti tourist” to see a problem with that logic.


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    #144
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    I wouldnt be too woried about our local authorities ability to regulate. The gob****es cant organise emptying the street litter bins more than twice a year


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    #145
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Bob24 wrote: »
    The poster said homes though and not properties, which is not exactly the same thing.

    The point being that it would be hard to convince voters that at a time where we have a housing crisis it makes sense for residential units to be used as commercial short term letting units (in contradiction with planning permission). And someone wouldn’t have to be “anti tourist” to see a problem with that logic.

    totally agree Bob.

    if these tourists love ireland so much, let them stay in a frickin hotel.
    Barcelona has led the way in this, and i'm delighted we have at last started to take a leaf from their book.
    Irish people (and especially families with kids) MUST be given priority!
    i make no apology for that.


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    #146
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Edgware wrote: »
    I wouldnt be too woried about our local authorities ability to regulate. The gob****es cant organise emptying the street litter bins more than twice a year

    I live in a generally ignored area of an incompetent council and the litter bins are emptied 6 mornings a week. I suspect if one isn't it has simply been forgotten off the collection route and needs to be pointed out.


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    #147
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    i really hope these new measures are properly enforced. LLs who breach the new legislation should face the full rigors of the law, and be made an example of.


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    #148
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    i really hope these new measures are properly enforced. LLs who breach the new legislation should face the full rigors of the law, and be made an example of.

    Like what, be tarred and feathered?


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    #149
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Like what, be tarred and feathered?

    no of course not. i'm not sure what type of system of justice you are in favour of,
    but there must be proper penalties in place including imprisonment for those LLs who ignore or flout the law.


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    #150
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    no of course not. i'm not sure what type of system of justice you are in favour of,
    but there must be proper penalties in place including imprisonment for those LLs who ignore or flout the law.

    Great idea, put hard-working landlords in jail and let drug dealers and thieves and burglars maraude about.


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    #151
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Great idea, put hard-working landlords in jail and let drug dealers and thieves and burglars maraude about.

    I read the announcement, neither of those ideas were part of it.


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