Pharmacist salary?

headtotoe · 16-05-2009 11:54am

this guy is spot on there should be a lecture in first year to let people know what they are getting into, instead of the deception that exists.

anotherlostie · 16-05-2009 1:39pm

Friend of mine commented that community pharmacists are the worst profession when it comes to giving out about remuneration. Is that a fair comment? I think it is, and I think that the environment the pharmacist works in, i.e. getting paid for goods rather than service, encourages this.

And you don't see a similar thread here for any other group of healthcare professionals.

WaldenByThoreua · 16-05-2009 10:13pm

headtotoe wrote: »

this guy is spot on there should be a lecture in first year to let people know what they are getting into, instead of the deception that exists.

Hey,

Im not criticizing you at all but you seem to be very negative regarding Pharmacy. I'm not professing to have any great knowledge regarding job situations etc, even though I am a first year student. I'm not looking to debate with you even, I'd just genuinely like a more in depth review of where your negativity is coming from?

The government lost the latest case to cut payments to the pharmacists I understand? Jobs may not be as easy to come by as they were but by no means are there dozens of unemployed Pharmacists on the dole are there? There will always be a need for healthcare I would have thought and indeed we are being told that the role of the pharmacist will become more inter twined with that of the Doctor in the future...a bigger role in health promotion etc.....

Sure the situation was so good financillay that it had to level off before a more normal salary for starting pharmacists was reached?

Even amongst my class theres no talk about jobs in the future...things go in cycles..research will always be necessary, as will industrial pharmacy...

Like to know what you think....as I said, just looking to know more because I realise a college isn't going to tell you the gory details..

headtotoe · 18-05-2009 6:15pm

limerickmunster wrote: »

Hey,

Im not criticizing you at all but you seem to be very negative regarding Pharmacy. I'm not professing to have any great knowledge regarding job situations etc, even though I am a first year student. I'm not looking to debate with you even, I'd just genuinely like a more in depth review of where your negativity is coming from?

The government lost the latest case to cut payments to the pharmacists I understand? Jobs may not be as easy to come by as they were but by no means are there dozens of unemployed Pharmacists on the dole are there? There will always be a need for healthcare I would have thought and indeed we are being told that the role of the pharmacist will become more inter twined with that of the Doctor in the future...a bigger role in health promotion etc.....

Sure the situation was so good financillay that it had to level off before a more normal salary for starting pharmacists was reached?

Even amongst my class theres no talk about jobs in the future...things go in cycles..research will always be necessary, as will industrial pharmacy...

Like to know what you think....as I said, just looking to know more because I realise a college isn't going to tell you the gory details..

first off im not negative just realistic to accuse someone of being negative without any foundation to it is simply foolish, if you think im not telling you the truth ask yourself how many community pharmacists do you know of in ireland who are over the age of 45, not owners and work full time hours ... the answer is few if any, because well ill let you work that out, now to compare with other professions e.g doctors, dentists etc. you get my drift, its basically because of the sh**e working conditions, anyways your only new to this game, and you've got a lot to learn...

WaldenByThoreua · 18-05-2009 7:17pm

headtotoe wrote: »

first off im not negative just realistic to accuse someone of being negative without any foundation to it is simply foolish, if you think im not telling you the truth ask yourself how many community pharmacists do you know of in ireland who are over the age of 45, not owners and work full time hours ... the answer is few if any, because well ill let you work that out, now to compare with other professions e.g doctors, dentists etc. you get my drift, its basically because of the sh**e working conditions, anyways your only new to this game, and you've got a lot to learn...

Are you a Pharmacist?

davey17 · 15-06-2009 2:48pm

hey ,
im doing my leaving cert next year and wanted some advice for filling out my cao . i cant decide on whether i want to do pharmacy or dentistry .. any ideas?:)

angeldelight · 15-06-2009 7:08pm

davey17 wrote: »

hey ,
im doing my leaving cert next year and wanted some advice for filling out my cao . i cant decide on whether i want to do pharmacy or dentistry .. any ideas?:)

They're both quite different... is there any reason it's between those two? If you have a genuine interest in one over the other I think you should go for that one.

If it's a question of money, go for dentistry.

If it's a question of not knowing which you would have a bigger interest in you have plenty of time to do some research and find out. Any specific questions about course content etc for Pharmacy (I studied in RCSI) I'd be happy to answer. Also go in to your local pharmacist and ask if you can work for a day or two in the dispensary to see what it's like... come up with all the questions you can before going in. Also contact your local hospital pharmacy dept, they're also quite good about letting people come in for a few days and do some work shadowing.

I would imagine dentists would be a bit less enthusiastic about having you sitting watch them when they have a patient there but you could always organise to go in and talk to them in the evening or early am if you have some questions... just ring around until you find someone who'd be willing.

If you genuinely don't know which to go for do go and do some research and talk to as many different people involved in each field as you can, then assimilate all the info and try to make the decision based on what you know about each of them and what you know about yourself

proteuspal · 12-10-2009 5:41pm

Interesting posts here guys. Sorry to jump on the thread, but there are alot of ppl here who know their stuff and I need your advice! I am a current pre reg-just wondering what are my prospects of getting started with a job come next August (ish)? I am torn between choosing industry, where career progression is tempting.

I feel i really need to know more about the role of an industrial pharmcist, its an area where I am struggling to grasp-how Pharmacists are really involved in industry.

Upon registration my second preferred option would be hospital Pharmacy-as a newly registered Pharmacist find a hospital job and get settled and get trained to a high level within the hospital.

Im a bit confused as i cant find enough information on industrial Pharmacy? It seems to be an area shrouded in mystery?Exactly how difficult is it to get a job within industry?

Are the options available to current pre regs like myself quite limited upon registration??

Thanks everyone and apologies for all the questions!

angeldelight · 12-10-2009 7:12pm

How are you ready to work as a pharmacist in August? Are you studying in the UK? To be honest I don't know a lot about industrial pharmacy as it's not an area I ever had an interest in but if you are in Ireland and you want to find out more about it why not call one of the drug companies base in Ireland? If you are in Dublin I'd call Leo Pharma... we went and did a tour of there in college and they were very accomodating and very open to questions.

I don't think it's shrouded in mystery as such, it's just not a very common career path. Most pharmacists will go in to quality control or formulation (for new products) and many will end up working as Qualified Persons. Traditionally industry was less well paid than community and possibly hospital but those have dropped significantly - I don't know if industry has fallen also or if it's now comparable

Goober2810 · 13-10-2009 10:06pm

Im repeating the leaving cert this and i want to do pharmacy, but id like to get the opinion of some recently qualified and current pharmacy students on the course and the profession itself.

after completing the course would you do it all again? is it a worthy profession even though the wages have dropped? what are the hours like in hospial pharmacy as compared to community.

is it difficult do get a job in a community pharmacy nowadays and how hard is it to get a job as a hospital pharmacist?

cheers

donaghs · 14-10-2009 9:32am

onetrueone wrote: »

The Bin man that collects the wheelie bins get a Lunch break yet Pharmacists don't - funny that.

Jesus, the bin man would swap his lunch break in a heartbeat for a "lower" pharmacist starting salary, like €60K.

tallaght01 · 14-10-2009 9:35am

donaghs wrote: »

Jesus, the bin man would swap his lunch break in a heartbeat for a "lower" pharmacist starting salary, like €60K.

I assume the point is that if the binman cocks up, the fallout isn't as bad as if the pharmacists cocks up. Yet we make sure to rest him well.

As an aside, my cuz is a binman, and seems to do pretty well out of it. Has a few kids, decent enough car, gaff, and his missus doesn't work.

angeldelight · 14-10-2009 10:51am

Goober2810 wrote: »

Im repeating the leaving cert this and i want to do pharmacy, but id like to get the opinion of some recently qualified and current pharmacy students on the course and the profession itself.

after completing the course would you do it all again? is it a worthy profession even though the wages have dropped? what are the hours like in hospial pharmacy as compared to community.

is it difficult do get a job in a community pharmacy nowadays and how hard is it to get a job as a hospital pharmacist?

cheers

If you do a search you should find a good few other posts I've made about pharmacy etc. at different stages... I'm a pharmacy graduate and have justfinished up my pre-reg so I'm studying for my licence exam which is at the start of November.

Would I do the course again? Yes. It was extremely interesting, we studied a wide range of topics including chemistry, medical physics, anatomy, physiology, biochem (my pet hate!), dispensing, pharmacy practice, behavioural sciences, law, pharmaceutics (all about how to formulate drugs into medicines people can take), pharmacology (action of drugs on the body) and clinical pharmacy. I did struggle at times, a lot of it due to personal reasons but it is also a tough course. You can do long hours, have a lot of labs and a lot of continuous assessment but if you can stay on top of it the exams should be ok.

For some people the wages dropping is a huge thing - I can't really comment on that because for me the money was a side issue. I wanted to work in healthcare, I didn't want to be a doctor and I had an interest in chemistry so I opted for pharmacy.

Some of my friends have lined up jobs and starting salary is now circa. €52k. That is with a chain who pay quite well compared to others so for most I'd estimate it to be in and around €45k. The only problem at the moment is that Ireland has very quickly turned from having a shortage of pharmacists to there not being very many jobs available. The reasons are partly due to 2 new schools of pharmacy opening but more immediately due to the cuts imposed on the sector by MoH. Lots of independent pharmacists are cutting back on their 2nd pharmacist - doing the extra hours themselves or reducing their opening hours to reduce costs. Also in terms of hospital pharmacy in Ireland the HSE recruitment freeze means most people leaving are not replaced... a hospital my friend worked in had 4 people leave/go on maternity leave before one part-time pharmacist was allowed be recruited. Hospital pharmacist salary etc can be found online somewhere, I've seen it before.

Personally I'm moving over to the UK. I've just got a job as a clinical pharmacist in a general hospital in the North West. Pay in UK is a lot less than here - as a reference point I'll be starting on 25k sterling. They will however pay for and support me to do my clinical diploma, something which is not available in Ireland. Also cost of living there is less and traditionally with the strength of sterling it wouldn't have been too bad but with estimates sayin it will be € for £ by Christmas I better like it or I won't be able to afford to come home lol.

And the last questions about hours... it depends. Community for a chain you will almost definitey have to work some Sunday, some late nights and every second Saturday. For independents in larger towns/cities you may have the same. If the pharmacy is somewhere smaller it will probably have shorter opening hours. You won't get a lunch unless you're somwhere with two pharmacists as pharmacist cannot leave the premises while the pharmacy is open so it's just a case of grabbing lunch when you can.
In contrast, in most hospitals it is a 9-5 job and no weekends with a scheduled break and lunch (you will still have days where you can't take all of them depending on how busy you are but you should get time to sit down and take a breather even on the worst days). Except for very progressive pharmacy departments weekends and late nighs don't really happen. I know what happens where I'll be starting work (in UK they are a god bit ahead of Irish pharmacy depts) is hours are 9-5.15 with one pharmacist rota'd to do late each evening with some evening technicians and you finish up anything that needs to be done and close up (usually by 6.30). Then they have an on-call pharmacist so they get bleeped, phone in and answer queries by phone if they can or may have to come into the hospital and do something. Weekends there's a 3 hour service and 2 hours on Sunday for anything critical.

Do have a good search (think search function is broken but you can use google) because there's definitely lots of other threads about, and best of luck!

r3nu4l · 14-10-2009 11:32am

liberal wrote: »

i heard biomeds now out earn pharms, hardly seems fair

Huh? It's only a 5 year degree ffs! See below...

nesf wrote: »

Yeah and people finishing PhDs have done 7-9 years of training. Their salaries vary from 30K-60K depending on field. A starting college lecturer is at around 40K. Some industries will get you more than that and in fairness a PhD is far more difficult than any undergraduate degree so it's not even that it's equal on a year to year comparison.

Exactly, I can't believe the moaning I'm hearing here to be honest.

I understand that if a pharmacist messes up and dispenses the wrong drug that patients can die but is that really a reason to get 70k on graduating? Nope. Also, some PhD's end up in jobs where it's pretty much the same, if they mess up a test or miss something then the result is wrong and it can end up with patients getting an all-clear when they are seriously ill. Other PhDs work in industries developing the very diagnostic tests that have saved millions of lives over the years and made the job of doctors easier, yet they earn f*ck all for that.

So I can't really sympathise, if the only reason you are in the job is for the money then you shouldn't be a pharmacist in the first place, you should have done law.

headtotoe wrote: »

Please anybody tell me another profession where there is no lunch break (its also illegal).

Haven't had a proper lunch break in ages and in my last job I never had one.

Also when it comes to attrition...look at the number of PhD graduates in Ireland in the last ten years...how many of them are still in research or in careers where they are making use of their PhD? The attrition rate is huge with Science PhDs simply because the career options are atrocious and the money is worse.

I'm one of the lucky ones but even then I'm not in research any more.

donaghs · 14-10-2009 2:21pm

Have to agree. 5 years in college isn't much to grumble about. Most people I know have some sort of post-grad so whether they did Business, Law, Science, IT, or even Arts in college they've put 5 years or more in. As you say Science Phds can mean up to 8 years in college, and for a lot less money in return than €60 or €70K starting your first job.

tallaght01 · 14-10-2009 2:57pm

You're worth what you can get.

Pharmacists have traditionally had high wages, not because of their degree (though I would regard it as one of the toughest degrees going) but because of the demand.

Pharmacies need to have a pharmacist in order to operate. There has always been an undersupply of pharmacists. So, the pharmacies offer good money to entice them. Though it's not 60 or 70k.

It's as simple as that. Pharmacy would be tougher going than a lot of PhDs out there. But that's not the issue. It's simple supply and demand.

gavney · 15-10-2009 2:56pm

headtotoe wrote: »

Please anybody tell me another profession where there is no lunch break (its also illegal), .

I don't take a lunch break. I earn 25K a year. I do administrative work for a department store. I'm not complaining, I'm glad to have a job at the moment. Most people on the administrative or managerial side of things don't take a lunch break where I work. So, you're not alone in not having a lunch break. And I imagine most doctors don't take a lunch break, as well as plenty of other people in other professions. Lots of the sales people in our store would LIKE to work through their lunch breaks- so that they could earn a bit more - but they're forced to take lunch, by law.

I'm not saying that I think Pharmacists are overpaid - I think it really IS just the nature of supply and demand. There is alot of regulation required which some people like to call "price fixing" ( which is really just a negative spin on "regulation"). But regulation is obviously very necessary in the pharmaceutical business. Whether pharmacist's have turned this to their own advantage a bit too much - I don't know really, I'm no expert.

I don't mind hearing Pharmacists complaining- just so long as they pay respect to other people who are worse off than them (and btw, I'm NOT claiming that I'm one of those people).

r3nu4l · 15-10-2009 3:28pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

Pharmacy would be tougher going than a lot of PhDs out there.

Sorry t01 but...LOL.

A pharmacy degree is NOT tougher than any science PhD I've ever come across (and that's hundreds btw). That statement doesn't hold any water and I know you are considering a PhD so if you go ahead I'd like you to come back to your post in a few years and have a good laugh at it

That's not to say pharmacy degrees aren't difficult, they are and they involve having to understand complex biology, chemistry, mathematics and even elements of physics but they cannot come close to the difficulties encountered during a PhD.

tallaght01 · 15-10-2009 3:46pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Sorry t01 but...LOL.

A pharmacy degree is NOT tougher than any science PhD I've ever come across (and that's hundreds btw). That statement doesn't hold any water and I know you are considering a PhD so if you go ahead I'd like you to come back to your post in a few years and have a good laugh at it

That's not to say pharmacy degrees aren't difficult, they are and they involve having to understand complex biology, chemistry, mathematics and even elements of physics but they cannot come close to the difficulties encountered during a PhD.

Lots of people, in health especially, do pretty dossy PhDs. It's hard to measure "difficulty". I'm pretty sure I'll be able to complete my PhD. But I'm not convinced I'd have been able to complete a pharmacy degree.

But there are bucketloads of cruisy PhDs out there. I've worked with a few people who have PhDs and really are not particularly bright.

r3nu4l · 15-10-2009 3:50pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

Lots of people, in health especially, do pretty dossy PhDs. It's hard to measure "difficulty". I'm pretty sure I'll be able to complete my PhD. But I'm not convinced I'd have been able to complete a pharmacy degree.

But there are bucketloads of cruisy PhDs out there. I've worked with a few people who have PhDs and really are not particularly bright.

I can honestly say the same for pharmacists I've worked with...and one in particular I currently work with!! :mad: This particular person also has a 1st class honours degree in pharmacy from one of the UKs highest ranking pharmacy schools :rolleyes:

EDIT: In fact he's so dim that I actually went to the trouble of checking his qualifications with his awarding university to make sure he hadn't lied on his CV. Goes to show you...
For that matter too, I also work with two medics, one of whom is very bright, intelligent and industrious and I'm happy to have him as part of my team, the other of whom is not very bright at all.

EDIT2: Also, dossy PhDs??? Maybe I should have done mine in one of those Universities.

Anthony16 · 28-10-2009 11:08pm

If one qualifies as a pharmacist in ireland,is it possible to work in Oz or america full time,afterwards.Are there many licensing exams to be done in those countries

Vorsprung · 29-10-2009 9:51am

Anthony16 wrote: »

If one qualifies as a pharmacist in ireland,is it possible to work in Oz or america full time,afterwards.Are there many licensing exams to be done in those countries

There is an exam for Oz alright, don't know much about it I'm afraid

angeldelight · 29-10-2009 5:25pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

If one qualifies as a pharmacist in ireland,is it possible to work in Oz or america full time,afterwards.Are there many licensing exams to be done in those countries

Yes but it's a bit of a headache. There used to be a reciprocal agreement between Ireland and Australia where if you qualified in one country you were automatically entitled to work in the other but that no longer exists. You have to do an exam and I think you also have to do an adaptation period where you work under the supervision of a qualified pharmacist there to get the hang of how it works over there.

It's similar for the states but each state has different procedures and you have to register for each state seperately and do their exams etc

amjon · 31-10-2009 8:40pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

Pharmacy would be tougher going than a lot of PhDs out there

Personally I think it’s a bit of a nonsense statement to say a pharmacy degree is harder than a PhD. I found my pharmacy degree pretty ok but would have really struggled with an English or drama degree let alone a PhD, on the other hand I’d prefer to spend the rest of my life doing various PhD’s than spend another day in pharmacy. I'm a few months into my pre-reg year and I'm shocked at how boring and soul destroying the work is. The whole profession is an absolute sham. I'm quite sure that you could train up any randomer of average intelligence off the street and in 6 months or so they would be just as competent for all intents and purposes as a fully trained pharmacist. It’s insane that you’re expected to do a pretty difficult degree for such a menial job. Constant repetition, poor people looking for free medication(which this socialist state dishes out by the barrelful), idiots addicted to co-codamol, oaps who order 1 different item off the script everyday, standing all day are just some of the joys of the the job. May as well be working at a bloody MacDonald’s drive thru. It’s funny that 4 years of a really interesting and enjoyable degree led to spending 9 hours a day in painful boredom. Rant over.

angeldelight · 01-11-2009 7:10pm

amjon wrote: »

Personally I think it’s a bit of a nonsense statement to say a pharmacy degree is harder than a PhD. I found my pharmacy degree pretty ok but would have really struggled with an English or drama degree let alone a PhD, on the other hand I’d prefer to spend the rest of my life doing various PhD’s than spend another day in pharmacy. I'm a few months into my pre-reg year and I'm shocked at how boring and soul destroying the work is. The whole profession is an absolute sham. I'm quite sure that you could train up any randomer of average intelligence off the street and in 6 months or so they would be just as competent for all intents and purposes as a fully trained pharmacist. It’s insane that you’re expected to do a pretty difficult degree for such a menial job. Constant repetition, poor people looking for free medication(which this socialist state dishes out by the barrelful), idiots addicted to co-codamol, oaps who order 1 different item off the script everyday, standing all day are just some of the joys of the the job. May as well be working at a bloody MacDonald’s drive thru. It’s funny that 4 years of a really interesting and enjoyable degree led to spending 9 hours a day in painful boredom. Rant over.

Sorry you're not enjoying your pre-reg, I know that feeling! I'm going into hospital pharmacy for same reasons but to be honest not every pharmacy is the same. The one I did mine in was a disaster but some of my friends had a better time.

Also unfortunately the most difficult thing about the pharmacy qualification in my opinion is the licence exam or the newly titled "professional registration exam" which is tomorrow. Argh, much harder than any exam I did in college

Anthony16 · 01-11-2009 10:05pm

amjon wrote: »

Personally I think it’s a bit of a nonsense statement to say a pharmacy degree is harder than a PhD. I found my pharmacy degree pretty ok but would have really struggled with an English or drama degree let alone a PhD, on the other hand I’d prefer to spend the rest of my life doing various PhD’s than spend another day in pharmacy. I'm a few months into my pre-reg year and I'm shocked at how boring and soul destroying the work is. The whole profession is an absolute sham. I'm quite sure that you could train up any randomer of average intelligence off the street and in 6 months or so they would be just as competent for all intents and purposes as a fully trained pharmacist. It’s insane that you’re expected to do a pretty difficult degree for such a menial job. Constant repetition, poor people looking for free medication(which this socialist state dishes out by the barrelful), idiots addicted to co-codamol, oaps who order 1 different item off the script everyday, standing all day are just some of the joys of the the job. May as well be working at a bloody MacDonald’s drive thru. It’s funny that 4 years of a really interesting and enjoyable degree led to spending 9 hours a day in painful boredom. Rant over.

Wow,thats definitely turned me off pharmacy.Sounds tedious

amjon · 02-11-2009 10:33pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

Wow,thats definitely turned me off pharmacy.Sounds tedious

Ahh here I don't want to put you off. There are worse jobs out there I'm sure. My advice would be to try do an extended period of work in a community pharmacy. I'd never spent more than 5 minutes in a pharmacy before rocking up for the first day of my pre reg a few months back. Having said that even if you don't enjoy the work I'd still recomend the degree. It really is a fantastic degree, I found almost every aspect of it fascinating. It leaves so many avenues open to you in the pharmaceutical industry. Whats more any employer will hold a decent degree in pharmacy high regard.

bleg · 03-11-2009 11:53am

I'm working in industry as a pharmacy intern and having the time of my life. The banter is good, don't have to deal with customers, the work is interesting and I'm learning loads. There are only 94 pharmacists working in industry in the country and there is huge scope for this number to increase. I've made up my mind. Sure the wages might be be a bit less in future (I'm actually getting slightly higher paid than most of my friends this year). The job opportunities and career ladder in industry alone makes it worth it.

amjon · 03-11-2009 10:15pm

bleg wrote: »

I'm working in industry as a pharmacy intern and having the time of my life. The banter is good, don't have to deal with customers, the work is interesting and I'm learning loads. There are only 94 pharmacists working in industry in the country and there is huge scope for this number to increase. I've made up my mind. Sure the wages might be be a bit less in future (I'm actually getting slightly higher paid than most of my friends this year). The job opportunities and career ladder in industry alone makes it worth it.

Yeah I've heard that industry is much more like the degree but don't you need a PhD to progress? Over here in the UK the average industry wage is pretty similar to top end pharmacy wages once you hit your 40's:

http://rpsgb.org/pdfs/ipgsurvey08.pdf

I'm not as bothered about wages as I once was, I know even if I was getting paid 10 times as much as I am at the moment I'd be no happier.

angeldelight · 03-11-2009 11:14pm

As someone who has just completed my pre-reg in community I would have had similar feelings at different stages about it being tedious/boring etc. However I was working in a very quiet pharmacy (approx 350 items per week) which imo shouldn't have had a pre-reg in the first place as there wasn't enough to do.

In saying that I had days where I really did enjoy work. For me the days I enjoyed were the days I put the most into it - days I didn't let any script pass me without looking up information on the drugs it contained, checking the patient's PMR etc and pointing out issues to my tutor, asking him had he seen this scenario before etc. Also days where I went out of my way to help someone and went that little bit further were more enjoyable as people appreciated it and I was able to use some of the knowledge I had acquired. I do think there's something to be said for getting as much out of it as you put in.

All that said I've got a job in hospital lined up now as after the pre-reg I had I couldn't face into retail again long-term without a break. I had a rubbish pre-reg tutor and it was too quiet a pharmacy. Had it been busier I think I would have enjoyed it more as I had a few days in busier places in my own time and found that much more fulfilling

Pharmacist salary?

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