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Beagán gramadaí

245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Gael wrote: »
    Gumbi wrote: »
    I think it's deifir :) which means hurry, but difference in Munster :) we use deabhadh for hurry. Bhí deabhadh orm etc

    It's definitely spelt 'difear' in the dictionaries, as opposed to 'deifir', but there may be some pronunciation variation that I'm not aware of in some areas.
    I think we're both right, as above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Ba mhaith liom a rá an meid seo a leanas i nGaeilge: 'We would like to thank our friends and family who have come from near and far to celebrate our special day with us. We are very grateful to you all for your help and support and we look forward to spending many more happy times with you in the years ahead of us.'

    Is é seo mo aistriucháin:

    'Ba mhaith linn ár mbuíochas a ghabháil lenár gclann agus lenár gcairde ó chian agus ó chóngar as an lá speisialta seo a cheiliúradh linn. Táimid an-bhuíoch díbh as ucht bhur gcabhair agus bhur dtacaíocht go dtí seo. Táimid ag tnúth go mór le am gealgháireach a bheith againn lena chéile sna blianta atá romhainn.'

    Beidh mé fíor-bhuíoch díbh as ucht gach ceartúcháin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Ní féidir liom rud a aimsiú, ach amháin san absurd deireanach, ina deirtear "beidh" in ionad "bheadh", :) ach taobh amuigh den bhotún sin, ní cheap aim go bhfuil aon rud cearr leis an aistriúcháin :)

    "Abairt" a bhí i gceist agam in ionad "absurd" above. Cuir an milleán ar an iPhone! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Is it correctly "siúil a rúin" or "siúil a rún"? The Wikipedia article says the former but many artists have published songs until the latter spelling.

    Which, grammatically, is correct?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Is it correctly "siúil a rúin" or "siúil a rún"? The Wikipedia article says the former but many artists have published songs until the latter spelling.

    Which, grammatically, is correct?

    The latter is correct. Genaerally, words are made genitive when invoked in the vocative. A Sheáin A Thomáis etc Terms of endearment, however, aren't put in the genitive, so it stays as rún.

    Same situation here: A stóir is incorrect :) It's A stór.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Tá cúpla ceist agam oraibh:

    1) "In the case of adjectives with one syllable, an a is attached to the end of nouns ending in a broad consonant, and an e to those ending in a slender consonant: mór (big) fadhbanna móra (big mouths); binn (sweet) guthanna binne (sweet voices)" (Turas Teanga's excellent guide to Irish grammar here.)

    Question: Did they mean to say "an a is attached to the end of adjectives"?

    2) I have been told that while the gender of a noun determines the gender of the following adjective, an exception to this is when the verb 'Bí' is being used. Then it doesn't matter if the noun is feminine or not. For instance, 'tá an fhuinneog costasach' not 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.

    Question: Could anybody clarify the rule here, if there are other exceptions, and why this is so?

    Grma.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    ceist amháin eile: What's the "hats" rule regarding the gender (?) of nouns? Grma arís


  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭mr chips


    Re the letter a - yep, that should have said adjectives rather than nouns.

    'Tá an fhuinneog costasach' vs 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.
    The first one means "the window is expensive". The second one would be part of a longer sentence that starts with "The expensive window is ...", e.g. "Tá an fhuinneog chostasach briste" - the expensive window is broken.

    Haven't heard of the "hats" rule, can you elaborate/give any example?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    2) I have been told that while the gender of a noun determines the gender of the following adjective, an exception to this is when the verb 'Bí' is being used. Then it doesn't matter if the noun is feminine or not. For instance, 'tá an fhuinneog costasach' not 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.

    Question: Could anybody clarify the rule here, if there are other exceptions, and why this is so?

    Grma.
    mr chips wrote: »
    'Tá an fhuinneog costasach' vs 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.
    The first one means "the window is expensive". The second one would be part of a longer sentence that starts with "The expensive window is ...", e.g. "Tá an fhuinneog chostasach briste" - the expensive window is broken.
    In the example "tá an fhuinneog costasach", the adjective is not being used to qualify the noun; i.e. it is not part of the semantic unit based on the word "fuinneog". I have seen this described as an adverbial use of the adjective.

    So there are three parts to the sentence:
    Tá - an fhuinneog - costasach.
    the window - is - expensive.

    In Mr chips example, he has done the same, but now the word "costasach" is part of the second part of the sentence:
    tá - an fhuinneog chostasach - briste.
    the expensive window - is - broken.
    In this last case, the word "briste" is also an adjective, but is used adverbially, while "costasach" is used attributively, i.e. as an attribute of the window.

    We could of course turn this sentence around and say:
    Tá an fhuinneog bhriste costasach.
    the broken window - is - expensive.
    In this case, "briste" is used attributively, while "costasach" is used adverbially.

    Finally, if you are familiar with Latin languages, both uses of the adjective would be feminine, which can cause confusion for people who learn a Romance language and Irish
    I hope this is of some help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Gotta correct my own error in terminology above! I meant vocative as opposed to genitive! :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Grma arís.

    Ceann eile:

    Táim ag múineadh dóibh (I am teaching them)=> Cén fáth go bhfuil sé mícheart/Why is this incorrect? But apparently I can say 'Táim ag múineadh staire dóibh'. Can somebody explain why?

    Should it be something like "Táim á múineadh"? If so, why?

    (I know there's a rule about putting the word after the verbal noun into the tuiseal ginideach uatha but I'm not sure if it's connected to this)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Grma arís.

    Ceann eile:

    Táim ag múineadh dóibh (I am teaching them)=> Cén fáth go bhfuil sé mícheart/Why is this incorrect? But apparently I can say 'Táim ag múineadh staire dóibh'. Can somebody explain why?
    The simple way to say this is "Múineann mé iad". This is probably the best as teaching is something that you do over a period of time, while "tá" is for more immediate matters.
    In any case, "dóibh" means "to them", and you wouldn't say this in English either, if that is of any help. You need to teach something to them.
    Should it be something like "Táim á múineadh"? If so, why?
    (I know there's a rule about putting the word after the verbal noun into the tuiseal ginideach uatha but I'm not sure if it's connected to this)
    - Múineann mé iad
    - Tá mé á múineadh
    - Tá siad á múineadh agam
    You could say any of the above, and with an object:
    - Múineann mé stair dóibh
    - Tá stair á múineadh agam dóibh

    You have to be careful with the "á múineadh" construction, as it refers to the student or students, and the initial will have a séimhiú/urú/will be unchanged, depending on whether what you are referring to is masculine/plural/feminine. Obviously in this case, it doesn't change as students are plural and "m" doesn't take an urú.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    Ar fheabhas arís Deirdre.

    Does every noun not belong to a particular declension?

    I now know that 'Teach' is second declension and one of the three exceptions to that declension which are masculine.

    However, Focal.ie for instance, just records its gender, Fir, and not the declension number (i.e. Fir2). Similarly, Bean is recorded as 'Bain', but no declension is given. Focloir.ie also omits the declension. Why would they leave the declension number out when recording some words?

    Grma.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Aodh Rua wrote: »
    Ar fheabhas arís Deirdre.

    Does every noun not belong to a particular declension?

    I now know that 'Teach' is second declension and one of the three exceptions to that declension which are masculine.

    However, Focal.ie for instance, just records its gender, Fir, and not the declension number (i.e. Fir2). Similarly, Bean is recorded as 'Bain', but no declension is given. Focloir.ie also omits the declension. Why would they leave the declension number out when recording some words?

    Grma.
    Declensions in Irish are sort of makey-uppy, trying to fit the Irish language in a structure similar to Latin, with a number of well-defined declensions, but Irish is full of small groups of not-so-well defined words.

    Really, what you want to do is just know what the nominative and genitive are. Words generally follow a pattern: one syllable words ending in a broad consonant tend to make the genitive by palatalising the last consonant (in the written language, you put an "i" before the consonant"), one syllable words ending in a narrow consonant tend to add an "e" in the genitive. These are your basic first and second declensions. After that there are all sorts of smaller groups of words which act in various ways. Just learn the patterns, and you won't need to know the official declensions; you'll be able to extrapolate how a word changes.
    Far more important is knowing the gender of a noun, in any case, but I assume you already have got that far!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Aodh Rua


    I must be missing something basic but here's my question anyway.

    I'm looking for the noun 'upheaval'. I got 'suaitheadh' in Focal.ie. In Ó Dónaill. suaitheadh has m. next to it so I presume it is both a noun and masculine. However, neither Ó Dónaill nor Focal.ie give its plural: both only give 'suaite', its genitive singular.

    Here's my problem: I want to say "a lot of upheavals" and I know that after "a lán", "mórán" etc the noun changes into the genitive (gen. plural in this case) if the noun is lagiolra, e.g. 'a lán airgid'. It apparently does not change if the noun is treániolra, e.g. a lán fadhbanna. Given the above limitations, how do I work out whether the noun is lagiolra and what its genitive plural case is?


    If I said "mórán suaite" would that mean "a lot of upheaval"?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    I'd say you'd be better off leaving it in the singular. I've never heard "upheavals" used in the plural before. Maybe "periods of upheaval" would be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭An gal gréine


    I dont think 'suaitheadh' is used as a noun so would 'clampar/clampair' do the job? Along with upheaval it can also mean wrangle or commotion.
    Círéib/círéibeacha might be too strong as it's most common meaning is 'riot/s' but then it depends on the nature of your upheaval.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Ellfish


    Dia dhaoibh,

    Tá ceist agam faoi gramadach. B'fhéidir go bhfuil sé simplí daoibh, ach táimse beagánín trína céile...
    Ba mhaith liom a rá:
    "Ba mhór againn bhur mbronntanas flaithiúil."

    My problem:
    Does the phrase "ba mhór againn..." take the Tuisil Ginideach?

    So should it be:
    "Ba mhór againn bhur mbronntanais flaithiúil"
    ie bronntanas -> bronntanais in TG?

    If so, would the Tuisil Ginideach also therefore extend to the adjective "flaithiúil", and if it does would the Tuisil Ginideach of flaithiúil be flaithiúila?

    Tá sé beagnach fiche bhliain ó bhí me i scoil, so I've forgotten the intricies of the language, but always trying to learn!!

    Go raibh maith agaibh
    Ellfish


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Ellfish wrote: »
    Dia dhaoibh,

    Tá ceist agam faoi gramadach. B'fhéidir go bhfuil sé simplí daoibh, ach táimse beagánín trína céile...
    Ba mhaith liom a rá:
    "Ba mhór againn bhur mbronntanas flaithiúil."

    My problem:
    Does the phrase "ba mhór againn..." take the Tuisil Ginideach?
    No, it doesn't take an tuiseal ginideach.
    But I was wondering one thing: why do you say "ba mhór" - would it not be more natural to say "is mór"? Of course if the bronntanas is now briste, caite amach or whatever, "ba mhór" would make sense. But if it's still good, I'd go for "is mór"

    For grammar questions, go to this site:
    http://193.1.97.44/focloir/
    Put in the word e.g. flaithiúil
    And it gives you the various forms, which I have copied below.
    Is suiomh thar a bheith úsáideach é!!!
    flaithiúil - aidiacht
    flaithiúil[ainmneach uatha ]
    flaithiúil[ginideach firinscneach ]
    flaithiúla[ginideach baininscneach ]
    flaithiúla[ainmneach iolra / ginideach tréaniolra]
    flaithiúil[ginideach iolra lag]
    flaithiúla[breischéim ]


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    I disagree. You can be referring to how you felt at that time. Ba mhór is fine in that case.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭MaryKirwan


    Rinne me measúnú gramadaí.

    I don't want to write a wall of text so I'll just ask about the simpler ones I got wrong for now.

    OK, so:


    Question 10: Cén post atá agat? __________

    Is múinteoir mé.
    Tá mé múinteoir.
    I siopa.
    Ní hea.

    I chose the right one (Is múinteoir mé), but I don't understand why "tá mé múinteoir" wasn't acceptable. Is múinteoir mé just sounds better to my ear. It sounds more straightforward, like you're identifying something. It doesn't FEEL like "Tá mé" should be attributed to a noun. Something like that. But I don't really know what's wrong with it.


    Question 11: An post lánaimseartha é? __________

    Tá sé.
    Is ea.
    Níl sé.
    Bíonn.

    Why is it "is ea"? I chose "Tá sé".


    Question 16: An __________ deirfiúr Shorcha?

    ortsa
    agat
    tusa
    bhfuil tú

    I chose "an bhfuil tú", but it's tusa. "An tusa deirfiúr Shorcha?" sounds like "yourself is Sorcha's sister" to me though, rather than "Are you" her sister. How come it's tusa? I'll leave the other 47 questions I got wrong for later :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    The last two, and "tá mé múinteoir" are all classic "TSF" mistakes, that is, "Tá sé fear" mistakes, as opposed to the correct "is fear é".

    I grabbed this explanation from another site, i don't have a "go-to" technical explanation for the TSF mistake:

    ‘Tá’ is used with adjectives to express a state or condition; it is not used (on its own) for classification or identification sentences, i.e., it can’t be used to answer the question ‘what is he/it?’. For these structures you use ‘is’


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    It's also worth remembering that translations between different language families are rarely 100% like-for-like.

    Syntax and idiom and verb conjugations aren't always going to translate cleanly. You can't just apply English grammar rules to Gaeilge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    It's also worth remembering that translations between different language families are rarely 100% like-for-like.

    Syntax and idiom and verb conjugations aren't always going to translate cleanly. You can't just apply English grammar rules to Gaeilge.

    Always worth noting!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    MaryKirwan wrote: »
    Question 10: Cén post atá agat? __________

    Is múinteoir mé.
    Tá mé múinteoir.
    I siopa.
    Ní hea.

    I chose the right one (Is múinteoir mé), but I don't understand why "tá mé múinteoir" wasn't acceptable. Is múinteoir mé just sounds better to my ear. It sounds more straightforward, like you're identifying something. It doesn't FEEL like "Tá mé" should be attributed to a noun. Something like that. But I don't really know what's wrong with it.
    As someone has already said the rule is this:
    Is + noun
    Tá mé/tú + adjective
    Question 11: An post lánaimseartha é? __________

    Tá sé.
    Is ea.
    Níl sé.
    Bíonn.

    Why is it "is ea"? I chose "Tá sé".


    Question 16: An __________ deirfiúr Shorcha?

    ortsa
    agat
    tusa
    bhfuil tú

    I chose "an bhfuil tú", but it's tusa. "An tusa deirfiúr Shorcha?" sounds like "yourself is Sorcha's sister" to me though, rather than "Are you" her sister. How come it's tusa? I'll leave the other 47 questions I got wrong for later :p
    These two questions are really the same:
    an in both cases is the verb, it is the interrogative forms of the verb is, an chopail.
    The long answer in q.11 is
    Is post lánaimseartha é
    To save repetition, you say
    Is ea.

    In q.16, an again is the verb, the question or interrogative form. So if you say "an bhfuil" you now have two verbs; and yes, out of context this is very confusing because in a different context "an bhfuil" is a good construction.
    But remember that you didn't say
    Tá mé múinteoir so you're not going to say
    An bhfuil tú múinteoir either.
    You wouldn't say
    Tá tú deirfiúr so you won't say
    An bhfuil tú deirfiúr

    So you have
    is mé - is mise - is múinteoir mé
    is tú - is tusa - is tusa deirfiúr Shorcha
    and alsoto make a question,
    an mé - an mise - an múinteoir mé?
    an tú - an tusa - an tusa deirfiúr Shorcha?
    etc.
    I hope that's of some help!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭MaryKirwan


    deirdremf wrote: »
    As someone has already said the rule is this:
    Is + noun
    Tá mé/tú + adjective

    These two questions are really the same:
    an in both cases is the verb, it is the interrogative forms of the verb is, an chopail.
    The long answer in q.11 is
    Is post lánaimseartha é
    To save repetition, you say
    Is ea.

    In q.16, an again is the verb, the question or interrogative form. So if you say "an bhfuil" you now have two verbs; and yes, out of context this is very confusing because in a different context "an bhfuil" is a good construction.
    But remember that you didn't say
    Tá mé múinteoir so you're not going to say
    An bhfuil tú múinteoir either.
    You wouldn't say
    Tá tú deirfiúr so you won't say
    An bhfuil tú deirfiúr

    So you have
    is mé - is mise - is múinteoir mé
    is tú - is tusa - is tusa deirfiúr Shorcha
    and alsoto make a question,
    an mé - an mise - an múinteoir mé?
    an tú - an tusa - an tusa deirfiúr Shorcha?
    etc.
    I hope that's of some help!

    So does that mean if you were asking someone if they were a teacher you'd say "An tusa múinteoir?"?! I've been using "an bhfuil..." for everything :eek:

    I don't really get it, but eventually I will. I'll at least identify it next time. I'll read it another few times and try to understand it a bit better. It's mostly just that I don't understand why "an bhfuil"= two verbs in this context. Is it because you're identifying something, so if you were answering you'd be saying "is mise", so here you need the corresponding "tusa"? I half understand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭MaryKirwan


    OK :3

    Cúpla níos mó ceisteanna faoin measúnú, má ní miste libh.

    Ceist 7:


    Question 7: Féachaim __________ an teilifís.

    ag
    as
    leis
    ar

    Cén fáth "ar" an teilifís seachas (rather than?) "ag". As béarla, you look AT TV, not on it. I know these things don't translate the same way. I'm just wondering if there's a particular explanation.


    Question 31: Tá sé ina chónaí ar imeall __________.

    na cathrach
    an baile
    an cathair
    chathair

    Roghnaigh (I chose?) mé "an cathair" ach tá sé (or is ea??? ) "na cathrach". Cén fáth ;_; Níl tuigim sin ar bith.


    Question 35: Cé mhéad seomra leapa atá sa teach? __________

    Ceathair.
    Trí cinn.
    Triúr.
    Dhá.

    Dúirt mé "Ceathair", tá sé/is ea "trí cinn". What's a cinn :O? It says "advanced" when I look it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    MaryKirwan wrote: »
    So does that mean if you were asking someone if they were a teacher you'd say "An tusa múinteoir?"?! I've been using "an bhfuil..." for everything :eek:
    You could say that, but most people in this context would put "tusa" at the end: An múinteoir tusa? Please don't ask me to explain, other than to say if you put tusa earlier in the sentence, you are stressing it.
    I don't really get it, but eventually I will. I'll at least identify it next time. I'll read it another few times and try to understand it a bit better. It's mostly just that I don't understand why "an bhfuil"= two verbs in this context. Is it because you're identifying something, so if you were answering you'd be saying "is mise", so here you need the corresponding "tusa"? I half understand.
    The verb is has 4 forms in the present tense:
    is - affirmation
    ní - negation
    an - normal question
    nach - negative question (e. g. Aren't you the person I saw at the beach on Tuesday?)

    The problem is that an, ní and nach are also used separately from the above as particles with other verbs:
    An itheann tú leite?
    oibríonn mé ar an Satharn.
    Nach bhfuil gúna nua Mhary go hálainn?

    However, don't worry too much about this, just remember the general rule:
    use is with a noun
    use with an adjective


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    MaryKirwan wrote: »
    OK :3

    Cúpla níos mó ceisteanna faoin measúnú, má ní miste libh.

    Ceist 7: Féachaim __________ an teilifís.

    ag
    as
    leis
    ar

    Cén fáth "ar" an teilifís seachas (rather than?) "ag". As béarla, you look AT TV, not on it. I know these things don't translate the same way. I'm just wondering if there's a particular explanation.
    No specific reason, it's just that the verb féach is usually followed by ar. To be learnt and remembered!
    Question 31: Tá sé ina chónaí ar imeall __________.

    na cathrach
    an baile
    an chathair
    chathair

    Roghnaigh (I chose?) mé "an chathair" ach ( = is é ) "na cathrach". Cén fáth ;_; Ní thuigim sin ar bith.
    Same reason as you'd say "the edge of the city" rather than "the edge the city"in English: it's a genitive case.
    Question 35: Cé mhéad seomra leapa atá sa teach? __________

    Ceathair.
    Trí cinn.
    Triúr.
    Dhá.

    Dúirt mé "Ceathair", is é "trí cinn" an freagra ceart. What's a cinn :O? It says "advanced" when I look it up.
    ceann amháin, dhá cheann, trí cinn, ceithre cinn etc.

    one of them, two of them, three of them, four of them etc.
    (although ceann, cinn mean head, heads in actual fact. Always used in counting things when you don't actually name the thing)
    Also, when you are counting things, remember to use dhá and ceithre instead of and ceathair. The rest of the numbers don't have special forms, except for counting people.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭MaryKirwan


    A few more enquiries for anyone willing to explain.

    Ceist 37

    An (blank) tu ansin go minic?

    Bhfuil
    Ta
    Mbionn
    Bhionn

    Is e mbionn an freagra ceart. Cen fath? Cen fath nach bhfuil se "bhfuil"?

    Ceist 38

    Thosaigh me ag obair ansin cupla (blank) o shin.

    Sheachtaine
    Miosa
    Mi
    Mhi

    Duirt me "sheachtaine" ach is e "mi" an freagra ceart. Ach nil thuigim, mar ta se an aimsir caite. Shouldn't it have a "h"?

    Ceist 39

    (Blank) as mo phost me an tseachtain seo caite.

    Briseadh (freagra ceart)
    Bhris (mo freagra)
    Bristear
    Bhriseann

    Aris, ta se san aimsir caite. Why briseadh? What tense is that anyway?

    Forgive the lack of fadas, my phone won't do 'em.


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